Hdrol cycle...any thoughts?

[EggzNDsuch]

I'm 23 years old, been lifting hard for 6 years. I have had my diet on point for the past 2 and have a great amount of dedication to hitting it hard in the gym, keeping diet clean, and getting enough rest. I have experimented with basic supps, pre-workouts, creatine, test boosters...etc. I want to do my first cycle to hopefully hit a new level in my muscle and strength developement.

So I was thinking of doing Hdrol 50/50/75/75/100/100 with liver care, joint support, multiV, fish oil, CEL cycle assist...any additions?

PCT: Torem or Clomid, Erase, DAA, creatine...any additions?

This is a rough list of what I think would be a solid cycle. I posted it to utilize the knowledge of the many people on this great forum. Let me know what you think!

 

[Gerbil]

That appears to be a fairly standard h-drol cycle. I would get some taurine just incase you get back pumps. Let the sides dictate the dosage in the last two weeks if you are miserable at 100mg then dial back down to 75, not saying your dosages are too high just some people react differently.

Whats the training split you are planning? BF%?

 

[Gerbil]

Also pct dosages?

 

[EggzNDsuch]

BF% is 13%...I'm doing a 5 day split using FST7 training. I am focusing on legs twice a week because they are my weak point and would like to make most of my gains there.
Day 1: Chest and Back
Day 2: Legs focusing on squat as foundation
Day 3: Arms
Day 4: Shoulders and Traps
Day 5: off
Day 6: Legs focusing on deadlift as foundation
Day 7: off

PCT: I was thinking 20/20/10/10

 

[Gerbil]

You only have 2 days off on legs? Huh I normally destroy them to the point of legs weekly not twice weekly. I assume you are reffering to nolva dosage.

 

[srblan]

Which body parts are you doing FST for?

 

[EggzNDsuch]

I follow that schedule and add off days if im hurting.
That was the dosing for my SERM. Everyone says you must do a SERM but I think I'm more afraid of some of the side effects involved with the SERM rather then the PH itself. I'm wondering if a SERM is absolutely necessary with a mild PH such as this.

I have an FST7 workout for all of the days above. The 7 sets at the end really finish the workout off for me...always have a huge pump after.

 

[MB35]

You have it right to get a SERM. I haven't cycled yet but ive researched alot. Don't turn into a guy trying to second guess a SERM and come up with reasona not to use one. H-Drol is mild but it WILL shut you down especially at decently high doses(which 100mg and even the 75mg are to an extent). 20/20/10/10 is good for dosing IF YOU USE NOLVADEX. Since you said you wanted to use torem or clomid it would be different. I don't remember most clomid doses off hand but the usual I see for torem is:

Week 1: 120mg for 3 days, 90mg for remaining 4 days
Week 2: 90mg everyday
Week 3: 60mg everyday
Week 4: 60mg everyday

 

[EggzNDsuch]

I'm not trying to be "one of those guys" I'm just throwing the idea out there to get some opinions. I don't mean to discredit you but what stood out for me was that you haven't ran a cycle yet. Like you, I have done a ton of research and have heard you must do a SERM. The only reason I question this is because I have talked to several people who felt like ****, and had bad side effects that subsided when SERM was stopped. Others that have never done a SERM because they ran the PH as the bottle directed and had no problems. I want to see I'd there are people out there who can share their experiences with hdrol or other PH/AAS with or without a SERM.

 

[ManBeast]

Not using a SERM on a cycle that shuts down your production (different from suppressing), is like playing russian roulette with one safe cylinder. Sure you can bounce back, but it will be a long and difficult process for most.

The "feeling like sh*t" on a SERM is quite possible if high doses of clomid are used, which is why I like low doses of clomid (as it is intended for fertility) with a moderate dosing of either nolva or tamox instead of high-dosing any one compound.

What "bad side effects" were experienced on a SERM? Were they using liver support while on a SERM?

ManBeast

I'm willing to bet the "feeling better after stopping a SERM" was mostly coincidence, because even with a SERM most people using only a serm for their PCT will feel down/crappy/depressed/moody for a while until their body re-normalizes.

 

[EggzNDsuch]

Not using a SERM on a cycle that shuts down your production (different from suppressing), is like playing russian roulette with one safe cylinder. Sure you can bounce back, but it will be a long and difficult process for most.

The "feeling like sh*t" on a SERM is quite possible if high doses of clomid are used, which is why I like low doses of clomid (as it is intended for fertility) with a moderate dosing of either nolva or tamox instead of high-dosing any one compound.

What "bad side effects" were experienced on a SERM? Were they using liver support while on a SERM?

ManBeast

I'm willing to bet the "feeling better after stopping a SERM" was mostly coincidence, because even with a SERM most people using only a serm for their PCT will feel down/crappy/depressed/moody for a while until their body re-normalizes.

Thanks manbeast! I'm glad you chimed in. So for this cycle and from your personal experience which SERM would you recommend? And what dosing do you suggest?

Side effects I was talking about were anxiety and depression. What support supps do u think would help prevent these effects and others?

I wanted to cover this topic on serms because I'm doing the cycle with my roommate who has done many and he has never taken a SERM and never had problems. We are butting heads because I'd rather be safe for my first and he's saying I don't need it. I think he is staying at a dose of 50. Is that why he doesn't necessarily need a SERM because he's not getting shut down from that dose?

 

[ManBeast]

Eh, if he's on that dose for more than 2 weeks, he'll proably be shutdown, unless his nuts are just superchamps or something, but by 3 he'll definitely be shut down.

Also, that dose doesn't seem to do much for most people anyways.

From what I'm researching Torem seems to have the fewest sides of any of the SERMs right now, and seems to help people get back on track incredibly fast.

Adding in DAA and a test enhancer of your choice should help with the depression, I haven't personally heard too much about anxiety from the SERM, my guess it is more likely due to the completely imbalanced hormones during the time SERMs are used, and would persist longer without them, people often want to blame a problem on something they are taking, even if they have no proof that it is causing it.

Torem dosing for that cycle would be first 3 days at 120, rest of that week at 90. 2nd week at 90, 3rd week at 60, 4th week at 30.

Honestly, the kingpin to a sucsessful cycle is PCT, it should cost as much if not more to do a proper max-retention pct.

ManBeast

 

[EggzNDsuch]

Eh, if he's on that dose for more than 2 weeks, he'll proably be shutdown, unless his nuts are just superchamps or something, but by 3 he'll definitely be shut down.

Also, that dose doesn't seem to do much for most people anyways.

From what I'm researching Torem seems to have the fewest sides of any of the SERMs right now, and seems to help people get back on track incredibly fast.

Adding in DAA and a test enhancer of your choice should help with the depression, I haven't personally heard too much about anxiety from the SERM, my guess it is more likely due to the completely imbalanced hormones during the time SERMs are used, and would persist longer without them, people often want to blame a problem on something they are taking, even if they have no proof that it is causing it.

Torem dosing for that cycle would be first 3 days at 120, rest of that week at 90. 2nd week at 90, 3rd week at 60, 4th week at 30.

Honestly, the kingpin to a sucsessful cycle is PCT, it should cost as much if not more to do a proper max-retention pct.

ManBeast

Thanks for all the info. I will purchase torem. What kind of support supplements do you suggest as a must for a max-retention pct?

 

[ManBeast]

at the minmum these days?
DAA
Erase (or similar)
Anabeta
Natty Test Enhancer of your choice

ManBeast

 

[dylangemelli]

i sent you a pm with the entire cycle laid out...