1,4ad as transdermal: dione or diol?

[Syr]

OK, guys, I need a little help and clarifications here.
It seems there is no much info on these compounds. I want to use it as base for a trandsermal.

I know that the dione and diol have different properties, but which ones?
The data i found is scarce and I still have all my doubts.
In theory the diol should be better, but some other source says the opposite.

Please help me to make some light.
Thanks.

 

[chasec]

go with the diol.

 

[rrgg]

I figure this thread has been moved from http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?p=176400#post176400

First, I should repeat that the only way to make 1,4ad diol as a transdermal right now is to empty some SciFit brand capsules and remove the malodextrin filler somehow. No one else is selling base powder including BN. If Sledge starts selling 1,4ad diol acetate, you may also be able to use it transdermally if its molecular weight is under 400.

Do you know the difference in effectivity or can you point me somewhere?
I read some tecnhical explanation but is controversial on effectivity.

I was talking about different properties. The dione can convert directly to some small amount of estrogen, but the diol can't. That can be good or bad depending on your goal.

To try to answer your question, diol should be more effective than the dione, in theory, if properly made. Some guys report that in practice the dione base actually works better. But --- it's not clear that this is due to the difference between diol and dione. It's possible these reports are actually due to poor concentrations of diol products that were and are still on the market. It turns out that the diol is difficult to produce without contamination, so when you take a few caps of diol, you may actually be taking less than you think.

You asked for more info, but you probably won't find so many recents reports on 1,4ad. 1-test/4ad stacks are more effective, cheaper, and more popular now so that's what guys use. What I've read about 1,4ad came from guys who use it because they believe (rightly or wrongly) they can hold onto 1,4ad gains better than with other products and with less side effects.

I've attached comments from 1,4ad users below. It's not scientific information, so take it for what it's worth. I've also seen a few more negative comments than these which simply claim that 1,4ad didn't work.

I did the 1-Test/1,4 andro for 6 weeks. 400 mg of topical 1-Test and 1300 mg of 1,4ad per day. 200 mg 1-Test 2x a day, morning and evening. Took the 1,4ad 3x per day. Really had no sides at all except awesome pumps and great strength gains. I'm on my first week of PCT with metacort and haven't loss any strength what so ever. It really was a terrific stack. I put on about 9 - 10 lbs.

1,4 andro is my favorite pro hormone for many reasons. I like the gains and I had no side effects what so ever. I have recommended this supplement to many of my friends and so far I have seen at least 20lbs of lean muscle gained on everybody that had taken 1,4. Strength increase was similar to that of "one-testosterone" after a week of use. Cycled with "6-Oxo" to decrease estrogen production; I did not notice any water weight gains.

I know that I did get better results fro 1,4adione when I ran it by itself at 900mg a day than when i ran 1,4diol at 900mg by itself,

Try whipping up a 1,4-Andro only transdermal, you'll see what I mean. Your water retention will drop very quickly. Your nuts will act as a barometer for conversion efficiency also. I did this for a 1.5 week trial out of self-interest before adding in 1-Test in a 1:1 ratio for a superior cutting mixture.

From my experiences, what works best is 10 grams of 1 test and 5grams of 1,4ad in one bottle, and 10 grams of 3beta and 5grams of 1,4ad in another bottle....do 1-2 squirts of each bottle 2 times a day and you'll be set. I did this cycle twice and I hd 6 of my bros try it ou and hey all gained within 12-20 pounds on 4-6 week cycles. The thing with this cycle is that your stength goes up f**king awesome. [NOTE: Quote is from banned user nsruffryder34]

i have been on this cycle for a while now and am very confident youll love it i am on 20mgs m4ohn spread three times and 1g 1,4 andro spread three times strength this week is getting scary i am afraid that people are going to ask if i am on roids or somethin but hey that cant be a bad thing right example at the start of the cycle i was doing 275 twice now i get it 8 almost all my strength gains have been appearing this week and i have almost a month left so lets see if it stays consistent

Been doing almost exactly that - 32 mgs. M4OHN and 1 gm. of 1,4 ADD - just finished week 4 of 5. Up about 5 pounds (217 to 222) with no change in BF% (10%) with diet and training a constant. I will say that the gains did not really kick in until the M4 daily dose hit 28 mg. in week 3. I would not use less than that again. I have always liked 1,4 at about a gram a day.

I put on between 10-12 pounds within 4 weeks, without increasing my calories. took 300 mg dione a day. 170 5'8

had no sides. did 1.2g diol ed for 6 weeks

600mg 1,4ad for 4 weeks, little shutdown

6-8 squirts 1-test plus 1 tsp 1,4ad for 8 weeks, no gyno risk & shutdown is much less than other things i've tried

I probably gained about 6-8 pounds on a 4 week cycle of 1,4 ad and 1 test. ... When I was on the 1-test I noticed that if I didnt take the 1,4 ad I would feel very tired and weak. ... [otherwise] I did not notice sides. I've noticed much more sides with s1+, acne and shrinkage. No hairloss. ... I would recommend s1+ over 1,4 ad.

I only used it transdermal along with 1-test/4ad dermals. I liked it.... I got all the same signs people mention of increased appetite, in the first few days. Beware of mixing 1-test/1,4 andro it kills libido big time, for me anyway.....got to have enough 4ad

it was a 1,4ad transdermal stacked with 1-T. I think it was a 50/50 mix. To tell you the truth, 1-T/4-AD does a lot more for less $$$.

Edited to add: Also, don't confuse this with m1,4add which is a different product.

 

[wastedwhiteboy2]

good post.

 

[Syr]

First, I should repeat that the only way to make 1,4ad diol as a transdermal right now is to empty some SciFit brand capsules. No one else is selling base powder.

Do you know if that would work? Or the eccipients and other stuff there would make it almost worthless?
Its not a cheap option...

If Sledge starts selling 1,4ad diol acetate, you may also be able to use that if its molecular weight is under 400.

Sledge?

I've attached comments from 1,4ad users below. It's not scientific information, so take it for what it's worth. I've also seen a few more negative comments than these which simply claim that 1,4ad didn't work.

There is one comment which particularly seems interesting for me: this one:
"From my experiences, what works best is 10 grams of 1 test and 5grams of 1,4ad in one bottle, and 10 grams of 3beta and 5grams of 1,4ad in another bottle....do 1-2 squirts of each bottle 2 times a day and you'll be set. I did this cycle twice and I hd 6 of my bros try it ou and hey all gained within 12-20 pounds on 4-6 week cycles. The thing with this cycle is that your stength goes up f**king awesome."

Can you point me to the original thread?

Edited to add: Also, don't confuse this with m1,4add which is a different product.

Yes, but i'm not interested in it: methyls are not good for transdermals.

Awesome post, btw, thank you very much

 

[rrgg]

1. Sledge does plan to sell 1,4add acetate. Here's the thread that got this started: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?p=176400#post176400
2. I only mentioned m1,4add because someone always asks about it when discussing 1,4add.
3. I don't know if SciFit uses a filler, but you could ask them:
   http://www.scifitauthentic.com
   [email protected]
   1-800-468-5017
   412-828-0771 Ext. 128
   Fax: 412-828-9825
4. You asked,
   

   Can you point me to the original thread?

   Yes. It's called "Is 1,4-Diol for mass or cuts?" I just realized that quote came from a user who's been banned, nsruffryder34. http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5194

 

[SJA]

1. Sledge does plan to sell 1,4add acetate. Here's the thread that got this started: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?p=176400#post176400
2. I only mentioned m1,4add because someone always asks about it when discussing 1,4add.
3. I don't know if SciFit uses a filler, but you could ask them:
   http://www.scifitauthentic.com
   [email protected]
   1-800-468-5017
   412-828-0771 Ext. 128
   Fax: 412-828-9825
4. You asked,
   Yes. It's called "Is 1,4-Diol for mass or cuts?" I just realized that quote came from a user who's been banned, nsruffryder34. http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5194

After reading that thread it sounds like transdermal is the way to go. User feedback vs. science?? :think:

 

[Syr]

After reading that thread it sounds like transdermal is the way to go. User feedback vs. science?? :think:

Whatever, i want to get it!

 

[shootmeagain]

Why bother using 1,4-andro as a transdermal? :think:

1,4-andro is possibly the most orally active prohormone. I have seen projections of a recovery rate as high as 50%.

If any prohormone was ever suited to be used orally, without methylation, this is it!

Just two cents.

 

[kmac6225]

Why bother using 1,4-andro as a transdermal? :think:

1,4-andro is possibly the most orally active prohormone. I have seen projections of a recovery rate as high as 50%.

If any prohormone was ever suited to be used orally, without methylation, this is it!

Just two cents.

care to back up why 1,4-andro is the most orally active ph? Not totally doubting, just curious

 

[MarcusG]

care to back up why 1,4-andro is the most orally active ph? Not totally doubting, just curious

Because it is. Absorption rate is relatively high.

 

[kmac6225]

abosrbtion rate? are you talking about a trans or an oral 1,4andro?

 

[Brodus]

It's true that oral 1,4 is equal or superior to trans 1,4, in terms of bioavailability, which is the important thing. Both methods give you around 40%+. The reason it works orally is b/c of the molecular structure; not sure which, but a bond (or double bond) is difficult for the liver to deactivate, giving you higher bioavailability.

Now...there are other benefits to trans--namely constant blood levels over time.

But if you go the trans route, USE DIOL. The diol is a fluffy powder that dissolves easily. The dione is a granular, dense compound, and has very poor solubility.

Regarding which one gives better results, this is debatable, but both certainly work well at proper dosing (~gram a day).

 

[shootmeagain]

care to back up why 1,4-andro is the most orally active ph? Not totally doubting, just curious

Well, it's true, I have no first-hand knowledge of testing, trials, etc. I only go by what I can read from what I judge to be reliable sources.

For example:

"1,4andro (1, 4-androstadiene-3, 17-Dione)

1, 4 Andro is an ideal option for those wishing to accumulate mass without the degree of water retention often seen with 4AD. It is highly anabolic with some androgenic properties, yet possesses a small conversion rate to estrogen as well. This estrogen is slight enough to ensure one remains relatively bloat-free during the cycle, yet is still receiving some of the benefits associated with estrogenic conversion. 1, 4 Andro has also earned a reputation amongst users for stimulating appetite, though the degree to which this is a strict result of the 1, 4 Andro is unclear. Users also report that, unlike 4AD for instance which is known to yield results quite quickly, 1, 4 Andro’s effects take longer (2-3 weeks) to make themselves known. It is also the most orally active PH available, and is generally not recommended for use in transdermal solutions."

-- from What ProHormones Are And How They Work (MOD EDIT:removed author name at his request)

AND

"1,4-andro (1,4-androstadienedione) and 1,4-androdiol (1,4-androstadienediol) are both prohormones to the steroid boldenone. 1,4-andro is well known as the most orally active prohormone, with a recovery rate as high as 50%. This is because its chemical structure renders it resistant to first pass metabolism in the liver. However, unlike many other steroidal compounds, the chance of liver toxicity from oral administration is very low."

-- from "1,4-Andro Information", By David Tolson, 1fast400/Bulk Nutrition, and elsewhere online.

Having read these sorts of things concerning 1,4-Andro is why I made the statements I made.

 

[kmac6225]

good post - thanks

 

[Renton405]

true marcus why bother trying to use it transdermally, its one of the most bioavalable oral prohormones....

The biggest con about 1,4 i think its its estrogen conversion, which is higher than that of other hormones..

 

[Syr]

true marcus why bother trying to use it transdermally, its one of the most bioavalable oral prohormones....

The biggest con about 1,4 i think its its estrogen conversion, which is higher than that of other hormones..

Its interesting why people are resurrecting my old thread.
When i stared it I had not a good knowledge of this compound, but still planning to buy the diol.

1,4add has much lower estrogen conversion than the dione. No one knows HOW much less.