PCT: What, Why, and How!

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  1. PCT: What, Why, and How!


    Firstly, I suggest everyone contemplating a first cycle, or new to how we think about cycles here at AnabolicMinds read over this thread:
    Checklist before thinking about a cycle

    What is PCT?
    PCT is Post Cycle Therapy. It is the time period after a cycle in which we attempt to restore the body's natural hormone production and HPGA (Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Gonadal Axis, not HPTA which is Thyroid) after a cycle. It is a very complex time for most of us (as indicated by all the questions that pop up about it). This thread will hopefully clear up a lot of questions.


    Why we PCT?
    We do PCT to help the body recover faster after having the natural hormone production shut down by the administration of exogenous hormones. Part of holding on to the gains made during a cycle is getting the body's natural production of testosterone up and running as fast as possible (without test, muscle is harder to hold on to). Another reason to get the body going again is so that we can feel better and get back to hitting the gym hard sooner (instead of the extended deload that PCT requires).


    How we PCT.
    Yes... The part you are all actually reading this post for! The nitty-gritty of how to do it. Firstly, any proper PCT has a SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator) as its base. Why do we need a SERM? I'll just use mattrag's explanation:


    Let's look at the reasons why you need a serm in pct:
    HPGA will be suppressed when you take exogenous hormones. The more powerful they are the more you get suppressed. Your body will adjust to the excess and stop making it's own. Unfortunately, when you stop the hormone the body just doesn't start back up. Plus many other things that are suppressed (like estrogen, from non aromatising steroids/PH). What?! How can that be? My ph has no estrogen sides! Okay, let's look at what the body does. To make things simple testosterone is turned into estrogen via and enzyme called aromatase. Body needs estrogen so when you are taking the non aromatising ph the body isn't going to just stop needing estrogen it's gonna try get it. And how? By elevating aromatase and making estrogen receptors more sensitive. Thus your pretty dormant breast tissue estrogen receptors could be turned on full alert. Okay thats about all I will say for now.
    What does this SERM do? In simple terms it starts up your balls. Clomid, and the other SERMS, have been shown to increase LH and FSH levels in men. Also, it binds to the estrogen receptor and renders it inactive for the time it's in our system.


    Here are some links about the various SERMS so you can figure out which one you prefer. I prefer to always have clomid on hand in case I'm having a rough restart, as it is designed for fertility, but I don't like running it in high doses (due to the sides) ever, so I always use nolva or torem as a base.


    Clomid:
    Low Testosterone and Clomid


    Nolva:
    Nolvadex - Steroid .com
    Nolvadex best T-booster of the SERMS (does not compare to clomid though)


    Torem:
    The beneficial effects of toremifene administr... [Fertil Steril. 2007] - PubMed - NCBI


    There is some concern about running nolva (and possibly torem, since it it a metabolite of nolva) with a 19-nor compound as both of these upregulate the progesterone receptor, and gyno caused by the 19-nor compounds is progesterone-induced:
    IronMagazine Bodybuilding Forums - View Single Post - WHY you don't use nolva with a 19-nor (tren, npp, deca)


    But, to make things more interesting, there is this contradicting information:
    tren+nolva
    Last edited by ManBeast; 02-09-2012 at 06:59 PM.
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*


  2. Dose and duration of SERM treatment will vary based on length of cycle and compound(s) used.
    For short duration cycles with mild compounds, a 3 week treatment with a SERM should suffice, for 4-8 weeks of moderate compounds, a 4 week treatment should suffice. For over 8 weeks, we start seeing 6 weeks as being better. Remember, it isn't only the dose, its the time it takes for you to get your own production up as well.


    One other compound worth mentioning that isn't (usually) included is HCG. For any cycle longer than 8 weeks, it is a good idea to use HCG to keep the testicles primed and ready for SERM therapy. A dose of 250iu 2x a week is a good amount for this. Just make sure to stop the HCG ~3 days before you start the SERM, as it is a bit suppressive on its own.


    The exeptions to this are in these programs:
    HPGA Normalization Protocol After Androgen Treatment
    N Vergel, AL Hodge, MC Scally
    Program for Wellness Restoration, PoWeR PoWeR : Program for Wellness Restoration


    Day 1-16 : 2500iu HCG every other day.
    Day 1-30 : Nolva 20mg/day; Clomid 100mg/day (50mg was taken twice per day)
    Day 31-45 : Nolva 20mg/day


    And in:
    http://isteroids.com/steroids/Post Cycle Threapy (PCT).html
    Nolva: 20/20/20/20/20/20
    HCG: 500/500/500/0/0/0
    Aromasin: 20/20/20/20/0/0
    Vit E: 1,000iu/1,000iu/1,000iu/0/0/0


    Both of these are meant to re-start after HEAVY and LONG cycles, not your average 12-16 weeker.


    The second required compound in a PCT is a mild AI (Aromatase Inhibitor)(explained by matt's wisdom above). You want a mild AI for this application, preferably with a short half-life and easily adjusted dosages. This will usually be used in a taper down as well, but started a couple weeks into SERM therapy and ran past it due to the fact that estrogen is more likely to be an issue as the SERM dose is lowered.
    For example:


    Nolva; 40/20/20/10/0/0
    Erase: 0/3/3/3/2/1


    There are other things worth including in a PCT to make it easier to hold gains. Some of the basics are:
    Cortisol Control (Cortisol eats muscle like a keto-dieter eats meat, and uses the same “raw” material as testosterone (cholesterol), so lowering its production is a double-win. For example Suppress-C/Erase/Erase Pro).
    Natural Test Booster(s) (to get your boys going even faster, DAA is very solid here).
    Natural Anabolics (to help hold the gains, like Anabeta).
    Glucose Disposal Agents (to help prevent fat storage: Need2Slin, Recompadrol, Slin Sane).


    A couple other compounds worth mentioning for PCT are: Forma Stanzol which has anti-e properties as well as raising IGF-1 levels, and increasing HPGA activity (it can also be used on cycle for these benefits (minus HPGA activity), as well as increasing the effectiveness of other androgens in your system. The other compound is Ostarine, which is a SARM (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulator), which functions like a natural anabolic and a nutrient partitioner.


    One final mention goes out to Primordial Performance for their Testosterone Recovery Stack (TRS). The TRS is a compliment of products that handles cotrisol control, helps boost testosterone production, and helps force the conversion of cholesterol into testosterone.


    Finally we get to training and eating during PCT. This is where a lot of people mess up. They've just finished up a bulker and want to immediately get rid of the extra bits of fat they've accumulated, so they drastically cut calories and start doing stupid-crazy amounts of cardio, and then wonder where their gains have gone by the time they finish PCT.


    If you haven't been able to surmise by now, PCT is not the time to push your body to do *anything* besides recover. Calories should be no lower than maintenance, cardio should be very mild (and for health only, not fat destruction), and weight training should be mild. When it comes to these aspects, it really is that simple.


    I hope this thread makes PCT easier to understand and plan for all of you.


    Many thanks to mattrag and Gerbil for the inspiration and help writing this.

    Matt's tips for finding a SERM:
    PCT: What, Why, and How!

    ManBeast
    Last edited by ManBeast; 02-09-2012 at 07:12 PM.
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*

  3. As a note: the specific OTC suppliments mentioned here are examples. Other companies make similar-acting products in many cases.

    ManBeast
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*
    •   
       


  4. Sticky this, then start mercilessly flaming everyone that starts a non-specific PCT thread.
    Don't worry, man, someday I'ma be nobody too.

  5. Here are some how's to get a SERM. Don't ask for sources. Just look online:


    Now many of you post that you don't want to use a serm. Be it using research grade materials seems suspicious, site seems suspicious, or you don't want to buy anything "illegal".
    I can understand those. Let me explain how you should buy them:
    1. Check google. Use words like scam, legit, fake etc. When researching a specific company that sells said products.
    2. Research chemicals are not illegal. I doubt you actually need a research license (if they exist) unless purchasing mass amounts of this stuff and saying you are going to use them on humans. You can buy them, the company just has to make sure that they aren't selling it in a way to promote human consumption. Like buying gas for your car, you can buy it, but you aren't supposed to drink it. Similar concept.
    RecoverBro ELITE

  6. Common side effects of clomid:
    Flushing of the skin
    Eye irritation
    Headache
    Stomach discomfort
    Loose stool

    Common Sides of nolva:
    Headache
    Vomiting
    Nausea
    Skin rash
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/223429-abscent-minded-log.html
    Quote Originally Posted by csa2179 View Post
    Pin the kittens with the tren, then attack the judges with the kittens, uppity bastards

  7. Just wanted to say I am a big fan of this post. I am not experience with AAS at all and just registered but I've lurked and been in the planning/researching stage for my first time using for awhile now. I already knew this stuff so even I get very annoyed seeing the posts from people who have already started a cycle or already have a product and haven't even looked into this kind of stuff. Hopefully this will stop that a little bit. I gotta say if there was a post right infront of me like this when I first started researching and planning it would have saved me lots of typing in the search bar lol. Excellent post.

  8. Great post ManBeast. The depth of information and level of detail are stellar. I second the motion to sticky.

    Hopefully now you won't have to answer the same question over and over and over and over...

  9. i tip my hat toward you
    if blow was characterized as a guy, consider me a homosexual :)

  10. It really was a group effort, but thanks everyone for the support.

    ManBeast
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*

  11. Needed this.
    Thx
    Hardcore Purus Labs {Rep}
    Lift the fücking weight from the floor, or leave it on the ground. The thoughts are supposed to be daunting. The pain is meant to be tormenting.

  12. 1st page. Awesome thread!

  13. Very informative. Thanks to all who contributed

  14. I'm starting pct and need help... Do I need a serm? J/J... Hopefully this reduces some of those posts
    You are born small and weak, you die small and weak...How you look in-between is entirely up to you...

  15. Great post man! Wish you had written this about a year ago... my research would have been alot quicker. STICKY!!!

  16. ManBeast we should have to set up a Pay Pal donation account for you...

    Many men apparently owe you their first born...

  17. LMAO!

    ManBeast
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*

  18. Man beast!!! You should teach on YouTube lmao or get man beast shirts! Is buy one
    Purus Labs Anabolic Titan/Rep
    Coach AB @ BossBody.net
    Puruslabs.net

  19. I would buy a shirt..... then make it into a cut off and wear it at the gym....
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice

  20. Sweeet
    Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free.
    -Jim Morrison

  21. Awsome thread. U lads have saved so meny nuts

  22. Hmmmmm, maybe I could get my girl to draw up a ManBeast logo and make some shirts... That could be fun!

    ManBeast
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*

  23. I have a strange feeling there are a few altars in your honor....... This could end badly.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/223429-abscent-minded-log.html
    Quote Originally Posted by csa2179 View Post
    Pin the kittens with the tren, then attack the judges with the kittens, uppity bastards

  24. LMAO!

    disclaimer: ManBeast does not require sacrifices of living creatures, discount codes and hookups on supps are good enough

    ManBeast
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Jonny784 View Post
    Name:  Cutoff.jpg
Views: 1092
Size:  255.4 KB
    I took a little artistic liberty and shopped in the 90s fanny pack, because REAL MEN WEAR FANNY PACKS.

  26. Dude that is f.ucking RAW!
    Purus Labs Anabolic Titan/Rep
    Coach AB @ BossBody.net
    Puruslabs.net

  27. Quote Originally Posted by Jonny784
    <img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=52 217"/>
    Awsome nice job

  28. Yeah, its awesome, but the people that make the game "Darksiders" might want to sue my ass into the ground

    ManBeast
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*

  29. Nice job and very informative. Now maybe all the pct questions posts will go away, ha maybe not. Anyway great job manbeast

  30. well, I would recomend starting your ai about week 3 of your serm, and no need to taper down the serm. just taper the ai down.

    instead of the trs, i'd say to just get a bottle of r-spray (prototype nutrition), reduce xt (sns), and some daa (sns) to go with pct assist from cel.

  31. Quote Originally Posted by DangerDave View Post
    I would buy a shirt..... then make it into a cut off and wear it at the gym....
    id make mine a half shirt, decorated with glitter and rhinestones........yeah i said it!

  32. How about a thong with manbeast written on the front id by one

  33. Woah Ging lmao thats a lil far Haha
    Purus Labs Anabolic Titan/Rep
    Coach AB @ BossBody.net
    Puruslabs.net

  34. Lol thought it would look good. Only problem is its miss leading. At least it is for my package ;-)

  35. Lmao that would be pretty funny I admit. Your bout to get some and the girl pulls off your pants and BAM!!! thong! But you know she can't help but read it and it says Man Beast! Hahaha
    Purus Labs Anabolic Titan/Rep
    Coach AB @ BossBody.net
    Puruslabs.net

  36. ROFLMAO
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*

  37. Lmao I dont know if they would laugh at me or run of either way would be fun to do

  38. Can't forget the logo. Then if you decide the thong is for your girl instead. It will be like her cheating cuz Man Beast will be all up on it. Might get wet down there tho Man Beast
    Purus Labs Anabolic Titan/Rep
    Coach AB @ BossBody.net
    Puruslabs.net
  

  
 

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