PCT: What, Why, and How!

Page 1 of 7 1236 ... Last
  1. Registered User
    ManBeast's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  XXX lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Age
    32
    Posts
    6,517
    Answers
    0

    PCT: What, Why, and How!


    Firstly, I suggest everyone contemplating a first cycle, or new to how we think about cycles here at AnabolicMinds read over this thread:
    Checklist before thinking about a cycle

    What is PCT?
    PCT is Post Cycle Therapy. It is the time period after a cycle in which we attempt to restore the body's natural hormone production and HPGA (Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Gonadal Axis, not HPTA which is Thyroid) after a cycle. It is a very complex time for most of us (as indicated by all the questions that pop up about it). This thread will hopefully clear up a lot of questions.


    Why we PCT?
    We do PCT to help the body recover faster after having the natural hormone production shut down by the administration of exogenous hormones. Part of holding on to the gains made during a cycle is getting the body's natural production of testosterone up and running as fast as possible (without test, muscle is harder to hold on to). Another reason to get the body going again is so that we can feel better and get back to hitting the gym hard sooner (instead of the extended deload that PCT requires).


    How we PCT.
    Yes... The part you are all actually reading this post for! The nitty-gritty of how to do it. Firstly, any proper PCT has a SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator) as its base. Why do we need a SERM? I'll just use mattrag's explanation:


    Let's look at the reasons why you need a serm in pct:
    HPGA will be suppressed when you take exogenous hormones. The more powerful they are the more you get suppressed. Your body will adjust to the excess and stop making it's own. Unfortunately, when you stop the hormone the body just doesn't start back up. Plus many other things that are suppressed (like estrogen, from non aromatising steroids/PH). What?! How can that be? My ph has no estrogen sides! Okay, let's look at what the body does. To make things simple testosterone is turned into estrogen via and enzyme called aromatase. Body needs estrogen so when you are taking the non aromatising ph the body isn't going to just stop needing estrogen it's gonna try get it. And how? By elevating aromatase and making estrogen receptors more sensitive. Thus your pretty dormant breast tissue estrogen receptors could be turned on full alert. Okay thats about all I will say for now.
    What does this SERM do? In simple terms it starts up your balls. Clomid, and the other SERMS, have been shown to increase LH and FSH levels in men. Also, it binds to the estrogen receptor and renders it inactive for the time it's in our system.


    Here are some links about the various SERMS so you can figure out which one you prefer. I prefer to always have clomid on hand in case I'm having a rough restart, as it is designed for fertility, but I don't like running it in high doses (due to the sides) ever, so I always use nolva or torem as a base.


    Clomid:
    Low Testosterone and Clomid


    Nolva:
    Nolvadex - Steroid .com
    Nolvadex best T-booster of the SERMS (does not compare to clomid though)


    Torem:
    The beneficial effects of toremifene administr... [Fertil Steril. 2007] - PubMed - NCBI


    There is some concern about running nolva (and possibly torem, since it it a metabolite of nolva) with a 19-nor compound as both of these upregulate the progesterone receptor, and gyno caused by the 19-nor compounds is progesterone-induced:
    IronMagazine Bodybuilding Forums - View Single Post - WHY you don't use nolva with a 19-nor (tren, npp, deca)


    But, to make things more interesting, there is this contradicting information:
    tren+nolva
    Last edited by ManBeast; 02-09-2012 at 05:59 PM.
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*

  2. Registered User
    ManBeast's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  XXX lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Age
    32
    Posts
    6,517
    Answers
    0


    Dose and duration of SERM treatment will vary based on length of cycle and compound(s) used.
    For short duration cycles with mild compounds, a 3 week treatment with a SERM should suffice, for 4-8 weeks of moderate compounds, a 4 week treatment should suffice. For over 8 weeks, we start seeing 6 weeks as being better. Remember, it isn't only the dose, its the time it takes for you to get your own production up as well.


    One other compound worth mentioning that isn't (usually) included is HCG. For any cycle longer than 8 weeks, it is a good idea to use HCG to keep the testicles primed and ready for SERM therapy. A dose of 250iu 2x a week is a good amount for this. Just make sure to stop the HCG ~3 days before you start the SERM, as it is a bit suppressive on its own.


    The exeptions to this are in these programs:
    HPGA Normalization Protocol After Androgen Treatment
    N Vergel, AL Hodge, MC Scally
    Program for Wellness Restoration, PoWeR PoWeR : Program for Wellness Restoration


    Day 1-16 : 2500iu HCG every other day.
    Day 1-30 : Nolva 20mg/day; Clomid 100mg/day (50mg was taken twice per day)
    Day 31-45 : Nolva 20mg/day


    And in:
    http://isteroids.com/steroids/Post Cycle Threapy (PCT).html
    Nolva: 20/20/20/20/20/20
    HCG: 500/500/500/0/0/0
    Aromasin: 20/20/20/20/0/0
    Vit E: 1,000iu/1,000iu/1,000iu/0/0/0


    Both of these are meant to re-start after HEAVY and LONG cycles, not your average 12-16 weeker.


    The second required compound in a PCT is a mild AI (Aromatase Inhibitor)(explained by matt's wisdom above). You want a mild AI for this application, preferably with a short half-life and easily adjusted dosages. This will usually be used in a taper down as well, but started a couple weeks into SERM therapy and ran past it due to the fact that estrogen is more likely to be an issue as the SERM dose is lowered.
    For example:


    Nolva; 40/20/20/10/0/0
    Erase: 0/3/3/3/2/1


    There are other things worth including in a PCT to make it easier to hold gains. Some of the basics are:
    Cortisol Control (Cortisol eats muscle like a keto-dieter eats meat, and uses the same “raw” material as testosterone (cholesterol), so lowering its production is a double-win. For example Suppress-C/Erase/Erase Pro).
    Natural Test Booster(s) (to get your boys going even faster, DAA is very solid here).
    Natural Anabolics (to help hold the gains, like Anabeta).
    Glucose Disposal Agents (to help prevent fat storage: Need2Slin, Recompadrol, Slin Sane).


    A couple other compounds worth mentioning for PCT are: Forma Stanzol which has anti-e properties as well as raising IGF-1 levels, and increasing HPGA activity (it can also be used on cycle for these benefits (minus HPGA activity), as well as increasing the effectiveness of other androgens in your system. The other compound is Ostarine, which is a SARM (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulator), which functions like a natural anabolic and a nutrient partitioner.


    One final mention goes out to Primordial Performance for their Testosterone Recovery Stack (TRS). The TRS is a compliment of products that handles cotrisol control, helps boost testosterone production, and helps force the conversion of cholesterol into testosterone.


    Finally we get to training and eating during PCT. This is where a lot of people mess up. They've just finished up a bulker and want to immediately get rid of the extra bits of fat they've accumulated, so they drastically cut calories and start doing stupid-crazy amounts of cardio, and then wonder where their gains have gone by the time they finish PCT.


    If you haven't been able to surmise by now, PCT is not the time to push your body to do *anything* besides recover. Calories should be no lower than maintenance, cardio should be very mild (and for health only, not fat destruction), and weight training should be mild. When it comes to these aspects, it really is that simple.


    I hope this thread makes PCT easier to understand and plan for all of you.


    Many thanks to mattrag and Gerbil for the inspiration and help writing this.

    Matt's tips for finding a SERM:
    PCT: What, Why, and How!

    ManBeast
    Last edited by ManBeast; 02-09-2012 at 06:12 PM.
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*
  3. Registered User
    ManBeast's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  XXX lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Age
    32
    Posts
    6,517
    Answers
    0


    As a note: the specific OTC suppliments mentioned here are examples. Other companies make similar-acting products in many cases.

    ManBeast
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*
    •   
       

  4. Registered User
    Swanson52's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  300 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Age
    39
    Posts
    3,075
    Answers
    0


    Sticky this, then start mercilessly flaming everyone that starts a non-specific PCT thread.
    Don't worry, man, someday I'ma be nobody too.
  5. Registered User
    mattrag's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Age
    29
    Posts
    10,027
    Answers
    0


    Here are some how's to get a SERM. Don't ask for sources. Just look online:


    Now many of you post that you don't want to use a serm. Be it using research grade materials seems suspicious, site seems suspicious, or you don't want to buy anything "illegal".
    I can understand those. Let me explain how you should buy them:
    1. Check google. Use words like scam, legit, fake etc. When researching a specific company that sells said products.
    2. Research chemicals are not illegal. I doubt you actually need a research license (if they exist) unless purchasing mass amounts of this stuff and saying you are going to use them on humans. You can buy them, the company just has to make sure that they aren't selling it in a way to promote human consumption. Like buying gas for your car, you can buy it, but you aren't supposed to drink it. Similar concept.
    RecoverBro ELITE
  6. Registered User
    Gerbil's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  202 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,721
    Answers
    0


    Common side effects of clomid:
    Flushing of the skin
    Eye irritation
    Headache
    Stomach discomfort
    Loose stool

    Common Sides of nolva:
    Headache
    Vomiting
    Nausea
    Skin rash
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/223429-abscent-minded-log.html
    Quote Originally Posted by csa2179 View Post
    Pin the kittens with the tren, then attack the judges with the kittens, uppity bastards
  7. Registered User
    MB35's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    35
    Answers
    0


    Just wanted to say I am a big fan of this post. I am not experience with AAS at all and just registered but I've lurked and been in the planning/researching stage for my first time using for awhile now. I already knew this stuff so even I get very annoyed seeing the posts from people who have already started a cycle or already have a product and haven't even looked into this kind of stuff. Hopefully this will stop that a little bit. I gotta say if there was a post right infront of me like this when I first started researching and planning it would have saved me lots of typing in the search bar lol. Excellent post.
  8. Registered User
    Jonny784's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    227
    Answers
    0


    Great post ManBeast. The depth of information and level of detail are stellar. I second the motion to sticky.

    Hopefully now you won't have to answer the same question over and over and over and over...
  9. Registered User
    phatmike0704's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  184 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,508
    Answers
    0


    i tip my hat toward you
    if blow was characterized as a guy, consider me a homosexual :)
  10. Registered User
    ManBeast's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  XXX lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Age
    32
    Posts
    6,517
    Answers
    0


    It really was a group effort, but thanks everyone for the support.

    ManBeast
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*
  11. Sunz out, Gunz out...
    Board Sponsor
    AaronJP1's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  183 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Age
    30
    Posts
    18,573
    Answers
    0


    Needed this.
    Thx
    Hardcore Purus Labs {Rep}
    Lift the fücking weight from the floor, or leave it on the ground. The thoughts are supposed to be daunting. The pain is meant to be tormenting.
    www.InsaneVeins.com
  12. Registered User
    Castor87's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  161 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    84
    Answers
    0


    1st page. Awesome thread!
  13. Registered User
    born small's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    3
    Answers
    0


    Very informative. Thanks to all who contributed
  14. Registered User
    pillsRgood's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  235 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Age
    34
    Posts
    584
    Answers
    0


    I'm starting pct and need help... Do I need a serm? J/J... Hopefully this reduces some of those posts
    You are born small and weak, you die small and weak...How you look in-between is entirely up to you...
  15. Registered User
    DangerDave's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    4,847
    Answers
    0


    Great post man! Wish you had written this about a year ago... my research would have been alot quicker. STICKY!!!
  16. Registered User
    bmattstevens's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Age
    28
    Posts
    168
    Answers
    0


    ManBeast we should have to set up a Pay Pal donation account for you...

    Many men apparently owe you their first born...
  17. Registered User
    ManBeast's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  XXX lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Age
    32
    Posts
    6,517
    Answers
    0


    LMAO!

    ManBeast
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*
  18. Registered User
    Airborne42's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  265 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    15,527
    Answers
    0


    Man beast!!! You should teach on YouTube lmao or get man beast shirts! Is buy one
    Purus Labs Anabolic Titan/Rep
    Coach AB @ BossBody.net
    Puruslabs.net
  19. Registered User
    DangerDave's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    4,847
    Answers
    0


    I would buy a shirt..... then make it into a cut off and wear it at the gym....
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
  20. Registered User
    TheMeatus101's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,229
    Answers
    0


    Sweeet
    Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free.
    -Jim Morrison
  21. Registered User
    ginge205's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    522
    Answers
    0


    Awsome thread. U lads have saved so meny nuts
  22. Registered User
    ManBeast's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  XXX lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Age
    32
    Posts
    6,517
    Answers
    0


    Hmmmmm, maybe I could get my girl to draw up a ManBeast logo and make some shirts... That could be fun!

    ManBeast
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*
  23. Registered User
    Gerbil's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  202 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,721
    Answers
    0


    I have a strange feeling there are a few altars in your honor....... This could end badly.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/223429-abscent-minded-log.html
    Quote Originally Posted by csa2179 View Post
    Pin the kittens with the tren, then attack the judges with the kittens, uppity bastards
  24. Registered User
    ManBeast's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  XXX lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Age
    32
    Posts
    6,517
    Answers
    0


    LMAO!

    disclaimer: ManBeast does not require sacrifices of living creatures, discount codes and hookups on supps are good enough

    ManBeast
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*
  25. Registered User
    ginge205's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    522
    Answers
    0


    Lmao
  26. Registered User
    Jonny784's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    227
    Answers
    0


    Name:  Cutoff.jpg
Views: 563
Size:  255.4 KB
  27. Registered User
    Jonny784's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    227
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny784 View Post
    Name:  Cutoff.jpg
Views: 563
Size:  255.4 KB
    I took a little artistic liberty and shopped in the 90s fanny pack, because REAL MEN WEAR FANNY PACKS.
  28. Registered User
    Airborne42's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  265 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    15,527
    Answers
    0


    Dude that is f.ucking RAW!
    Purus Labs Anabolic Titan/Rep
    Coach AB @ BossBody.net
    Puruslabs.net
  29. Registered User
    ginge205's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    522
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny784
    <img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=52 217"/>
    Awsome nice job
  30. Registered User
    ManBeast's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  XXX lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Age
    32
    Posts
    6,517
    Answers
    0


    Yeah, its awesome, but the people that make the game "Darksiders" might want to sue my ass into the ground

    ManBeast
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*
  31. Registered User
    21"GunSalute's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Age
    36
    Posts
    96
    Answers
    0


    Nice job and very informative. Now maybe all the pct questions posts will go away, ha maybe not. Anyway great job manbeast
  32. Registered User
    jbryand101b's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    14,613
    Answers
    0


    well, I would recomend starting your ai about week 3 of your serm, and no need to taper down the serm. just taper the ai down.

    instead of the trs, i'd say to just get a bottle of r-spray (prototype nutrition), reduce xt (sns), and some daa (sns) to go with pct assist from cel.
  33. Registered User
    hvactech's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  165 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    9,402
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by DangerDave View Post
    I would buy a shirt..... then make it into a cut off and wear it at the gym....
    id make mine a half shirt, decorated with glitter and rhinestones........yeah i said it!
  34. Registered User
    ginge205's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    522
    Answers
    0


    How about a thong with manbeast written on the front id by one
  35. Registered User
    Airborne42's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  265 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    15,527
    Answers
    0


    Woah Ging lmao thats a lil far Haha
    Purus Labs Anabolic Titan/Rep
    Coach AB @ BossBody.net
    Puruslabs.net
  36. Registered User
    ginge205's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    522
    Answers
    0


    Lol thought it would look good. Only problem is its miss leading. At least it is for my package ;-)
  37. Registered User
    Airborne42's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  265 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    15,527
    Answers
    0


    Lmao that would be pretty funny I admit. Your bout to get some and the girl pulls off your pants and BAM!!! thong! But you know she can't help but read it and it says Man Beast! Hahaha
    Purus Labs Anabolic Titan/Rep
    Coach AB @ BossBody.net
    Puruslabs.net
  38. Registered User
    ManBeast's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  XXX lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Age
    32
    Posts
    6,517
    Answers
    0


    ROFLMAO
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*
  39. Registered User
    ginge205's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    522
    Answers
    0


    Lmao I dont know if they would laugh at me or run of either way would be fun to do
  40. Registered User
    Airborne42's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  265 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    15,527
    Answers
    0


    Can't forget the logo. Then if you decide the thong is for your girl instead. It will be like her cheating cuz Man Beast will be all up on it. Might get wet down there tho Man Beast
    Purus Labs Anabolic Titan/Rep
    Coach AB @ BossBody.net
    Puruslabs.net
  •   

      
     

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in