nolva and creatine
- 09-14-2004, 07:04 AM
nolva and creatine
Nolva and Creatine
I was wondering, when one is on an AAS cyce, smaller doses of nolva are sometimes taken, as we all know, to help reduce bloating caused by water retention. Which brings up my question. Creatines main method of adding mass is water retention in the muscles-therfore, does nolva negate or lessen the effects of creatine if the two are taken together?
- 09-14-2004, 11:13 AM
Nolva lessens the water retention while on an AAS cycle because it reduces circulating estrogen. So unless creatines effects on water retention are estrogen related the answer is no.
- 09-14-2004, 11:47 AM
Nolva really does not have any effect on bloating. Its not an AI, therefore it doesn't reduce any estrogen...its a SERM, so its main function is to block estrogen from binding with selected receptors. I see all the time people posting about preventing bloat with nolva, when from what I have read, nolva has NO effect.
Oh yeah...so I guess the answer would be NO...
09-14-2004, 11:53 AM
09-14-2004, 12:09 PM
So what would be an effective "anti-bloat" aid to run when cycling something like test, exc.Originally Posted by Neuromancer
09-14-2004, 02:52 PM
09-14-2004, 03:11 PM
09-14-2004, 03:22 PM
Finally! Somebody who agrees with me that the theory of Nolva bloat reduction is a myth!Originally Posted by Neuromancer
Placebo effect, my dear friend.
09-14-2004, 03:25 PM
Am I sure it doesn't reduce the amount of estrogen...yes...its just a receptor modulator. Like I said I can't find the articles I have seen about this...but I will try and find them again...Originally Posted by RobInKuwait
09-14-2004, 06:12 PM
Nolva does NOT reduce the amount of estrogen in the body as neuromancer states. That's correct. HOWEVER, does it help with bloat. Absolutely! Nolva will bind to the receptors that recieve estrogen therefore rendering them ineffective. This in turn does not allow the estrogen to do their business,ie.bloating. (Find that article if you can and I would love to see who wrote that article and what their credentials are.) Back to the drawing board....Arimidex is effective because it kills the estrogen where they are produced, never giving them a chance to even find their receptors. Nolvadex, will block those receptors but will never kill the estrogen. This does pose a problem because once the nolva is stopped, there is all this estrogen floating around trying to find a receptor. Then the problem with estrogen is back once again. But, while being used nolva does stop bloating because it never gives the estrogen a chance to bind and perform their "duty". The best is to use nolva AND arimidex to help with the natural production of testosterone (nolva) and eliminate any unwanted estrogen (arimidex).BUT if one wants to reduce a little bloating during a cycle, Nolva works fine. That one article that states otherwise is up against many articles proving what I just said.
09-14-2004, 06:17 PM
09-14-2004, 07:07 PM
You'll still bloat from circulating estrogens due to electrolyte imbalances.. Best bet is to get an aromatase inhibitor..
09-14-2004, 07:35 PM
Of course I can't find it. The theory you suggest should logical...if you have those articles handy I would like to read them.Originally Posted by fugetaboutit
09-14-2004, 09:32 PM
Guys, have you ever heard the theory that the truth is equal distant from the extremes? Nolvadex can actually contribute to the bloat a little but does have some minimizing effect so it does reduce it somewhat (no like a AI would). Search for the post by Bobo as he has posted this stuff a half dozen times
Then again this is JMO
Last edited by Skye; 09-14-2004 at 10:26 PM.
09-15-2004, 06:27 AM
Nolva can actually increase circulating estrogen, it just blocks E at selective receptors (hence the "S" in SERM). I've used it while on just to prevent gyno, and it never did anything for bloat, ect. To prevent bloat you need an AI (Letro, Arimidex) or some form of DHT (M5AA, proviron, 5AA-cyp, ect.).
09-15-2004, 04:58 PM
Arimidex is hands down the best for anti-bloat...no doubt. But IMO nolva helps with that too. At least it has for me. When I was on d-bol I preffered to use nolva b/c adex would get rid of all estrogen and I didn't want that to hinder any of my gains. Neuromancer, I'll try to find those articles for you bro.
09-15-2004, 05:16 PM
09-15-2004, 09:52 PM
That's not exactly true. The only reason that adex, or letro for that matter, kills estrogen is due to the outrageous doses everybody uses! Letro for example blocks estrogen formation by over 95% at any dose over 0.5mg/day. So why are people using 2.5mg?! Big time overkill, only needed if you have breast cancer. I use 0.1mg/day and it works great. I'm totally happy w/ 75% reduction, that's all I want. Nolva should not be used casually at all. It will make you harder, but estrogen it's the only culprit. Electrolyte retention is common to many non-aromatising androgens, so if you bloat, drink more water and take a diuretic.Originally Posted by fugetaboutit
09-16-2004, 05:46 AM
What of those on higher doses though. Anyone got a graph of letro effectiveness at different concentrations of Test (or other) and letro?Originally Posted by DR.D
Does .1mg/day of letro keep you dry on lots of aromatising androgens? Compared to unjuiced?
09-16-2004, 06:10 AM
0.1mg/d Letro keeps me pretty dry. The most important thing to remember is that DHT metabolites are often diuretic by direct action on the kidneys. 19-Nor derivatives like deca, often result is unusually high excretion of potassium so even though you don't hold sodium, you can feel wet due to the ratio shift. Estrogen is just part of the wet factor. With test and dbol in particular, it does seem to help when AI's are used. If you can't control it with a clean diet, use a diuretic as needed.
09-16-2004, 11:53 AM
09-16-2004, 10:31 PM
Increased water intake and potassium supp's work well. Caffiene is also effective. There are some herbs too, but I like Lasix. It's fast and effective. I can use it two consecutive days a week and keep bloat down very well. But don't use it if you don't know the deal, because it's a serious diuretic, and can dehydrate you fast if your not very careful!
Last edited by DR.D; 09-17-2004 at 09:08 PM.
09-17-2004, 03:10 PM
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