cycle support products, worth it?

[R1187]

I understand these products can help with sides, but can they really protect your liver?

I know it sounds horrible, but I don't want to spend $60 to have enough to preload + 6 week cycle.

I'll be running P-mag, would you just take your chances and not bother with cycle support?

I'd rather spend the money in post cycle.

 

[ManBeast]

Eh, there is a lot of science behind the support products in terms of enzymes etc.

ManBeast

 

[Madevilz]

Most of those support herbs have little evidence/studies backing them up.
Steroids will damage your body no matter what.

I myself prefer to keep it simple and go with things that are proven. High dose EPA/DHA for blood pressure/lipids, and NAC for liver.
Flame away.

 

[ManBeast]

I'm not suggesting that any and all work, but there are a few that work, including the ones you mentioned.

ManBeast

 

[jbryand101b]

i may get flack for this but, 99% of supplements are a waste of money. i spent thousands of $$ over the years on supplements that didn't do anything for my BB goals.
i'd take the p-mag and a serm and forget the rest. buy more food with the money u saved.
btw, why p-mag? the target hormone looks weak on paper.
View attachment 51617

the standard is methyl testosterone, so that isn't fair for the methyl clostebol first thing, second pmag is already active and im sure you can find it in vida if you look, but still, those numbers should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[R1187]

btw, why p-mag? the target hormone looks weak on paper.

Well this will be my 2nd cycle.

First cycle was p-stanz solo. Was fun but didn't do too much.

Now I want something stronger. Is p-mag still too weak where I'll be disappointed?

Should I just jump right into m-drol for another PH cycle?

 

[jbryand101b]

support products like cycle assist & n2guard (which I have used) work. but i wouldn't use it on a cycle of pmag.

maybe something like m1t, or such, but for the most part, I try to save support supplements for post cycle, when i want to get health as possible as quickly as possible.

this isn't always the case, like when I stacked beta boladrol with some superdrol, i needed to use supports after about a week, and then drop the sd all together.

 

[jbryand101b]

Well this will be my 2nd cycle.

First cycle was p-stanz solo. Was fun but didn't do too much.

Now I want something stronger. Is p-mag still too weak where I'll be disappointed?

Should I just jump right into m-drol for another PH cycle?

you have to dose these compounds correctly. if you didn't dose pmag 350-600mg for 6-8 weeks, it was too low, not long enough.

with pmag, you will want to run 75mg for 6-8 weeks.

 

[R1187]

you have to dose these compounds correctly. if you didn't dose pmag 350-600mg for 6-8 weeks, it was too low, not long enough.

with pmag, you will want to run 75mg for 6-8 weeks.

p-stanz I ran @ 300 for 6 weeks. I knew going in it would be mild, so I can't complain.

I only have 2 bottles of p-mag, which is only enough for 75mg slightly under 6 weeks.

Can't really find p-mag anywhere now, I wonder if I can throw in some h-drol caps with the p-mag to extend to 8 weeks since they're pretty close chemically?

 

[jbryand101b]

p-mag is a diol

no shiit, more specifically chloro-methyl-androstenediol.

whats your point?

 

[jbryand101b]

p-stanz I ran @ 300 for 6 weeks. I knew going in it would be mild, so I can't complain.

I only have 2 bottles of p-mag, which is only enough for 75mg slightly under 6 weeks.

Can't really find p-mag anywhere now, I wonder if I can throw in some h-drol caps with the p-mag to extend to 8 weeks since they're pretty close chemically?

you could if you have some left over, i wouldn't open a bottle to use them. (but if you must, use it at the first part of the cycle at about 25mg plus the 50mg of pmag)

or you could google "pro mag 25 hardrock supplements" for another bottle for cheap.

 

[jbryand101b]

epi is just like pmag/hdrol in that it is an already active steroid, and hit or miss for people.

he already has the pmag, he just needs another bottle, 75-100mg of pmag for 6-8 weeks is a nice cycle.

 

[jbryand101b]

diol hormones have always been able to bind to the androgen receptor, though they do so much weaker than their 3-keto counterparts.

this is why a higher dosage is required of pmag vs the 3-keto counterpart, methyl clostebol. same thing for hdrol and it's 3-keto counterpart, turinabol.

but, both are theoretical, but it is more likely that the conversion to the 3-keto is incomplete, and the diol compound is binding (albeit weakly) to the androgen recptor, which is where it's long half life comes into play.

 

[jbryand101b]

dhea binding/interacting with the androgen recptor is insignificant.

here we are talking about modified hormones, a different ball game.

 

[jbryand101b]

it's also important to note when talking about dhea...

"Taken together, the data of Chen et al. (9) are consistent with the notion that DHEA can exert a direct, physiologically relevant, agonistic effect on ERβ, a lesser antagonistic effect on the AR, and a modest effect on ERα, in addition to its role as a precursor for androgens and estrogens"

receptor agonist: binds to/interacts

receptor antagonist: binds to, but does not interact, blocking the receptor. (a serm is an example of an estrogen receptor antagonist)

 

[jbryand101b]

the study seems to be in vitro, which doesn't transfer over much to in vivo.

here is the article from the quote:

http://endo.endojournals.org/content/146/11/4565.full

this one isn't in healthy adults (males pref) but is in vivo.

it's like when pa did his studies on 4-androstenediol, he posted his in vitro conversion numbers, and people ran with it, though it was worthless, as he will openly tell you.

as far as dhea goes, the end of the article sums it up best, lol:

"The studies by Chen et al. (9), and others, highlight the need for further well-designed laboratory, translational, and clinical investigations of the mechanisms of action, efficacy, and safety of DHEA, so that questions regarding its potential for improving or compromising human health can finally be answered. "