Possible jaundice help

bluedevil00

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K so I'm gonna attach some pics, please give me some advice on if I should go to a doc. Basically I don't have insurance and I don't want massive bills I can't pay. I'm two weeks out of a superdrol cycle and my eyes are yellowish and my urine is looking kinda dark. I know you guys aren't doctors but I'm just looking for opinions. To be completely honest I ran out of cycle assist and I haven't been getting enough water. I'm thinking about lowering the dose of torem down from 90mg. And upping support supps and water intake to see if it goes away but I'm scared. Let me know what you think.
 

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Jonny784

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K so I'm gonna attach some pics, please give me some advice on if I should go to a doc. Basically I don't have insurance and I don't want massive bills I can't pay. I'm two weeks out of a superdrol cycle and my eyes are yellowish and my urine is looking kinda dark. I know you guys aren't doctors but I'm just looking for opinions. To be completely honest I ran out of cycle assist and I haven't been getting enough water. I'm thinking about lowering the dose of torem down from 90mg. And upping support supps and water intake to see if it goes away but I'm scared. Let me know what you think.
Most of the examples I've seen of jaundice make you look like the emperor from star wars. Your case doesn't look bad. I've woken up with yellower eyes before from a weekend binger. Have you noticed any yellowing of your skin and not just your eyes? First off, don't panic. It's probably not liver failure. Just keep an eye on signs and check for worsening symptoms. Also, your piss doesn't look that bad at all. I drink a metric sh1t ton of water, and I'll still occasionally pee that yellow. But seriously man, drink your water!!! It drives me crazy when people limit their gains not because of gear or training, but because they aren't properly nourished. Muscle is made out of mostly water! It's not too late to start drinking more. Being hydrated will help your kidneys and liver. Go grab you a bottle right now. Also, if you could post a pic looking directly at the camera, that would help. The edges of the sclera of the eye can often be a different color due to a higher density of blood vessels. Anyway, keep an eye on it, but don't panic.


C0024908-Jaundice-SPL.jpg
 
AaronJP1

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Doubt it's failure, but it sure is stress.
 
bluedevil00

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Most of the examples I've seen of jaundice make you look like the emperor from star wars. Have you noticed any yellowing of your skin and not just your eyes? First off, don't panic. It's probably not liver failure. Just keep an eye on signs and check for worsening symptoms. Also, your piss doesn't look that bad at all. I drink a metric sh1t ton of water, and I'll still occasionally pee that yellow. But seriously man, drink your water!!! It drives me crazy when people limit their gains not because of gear or training, but because they aren't properly nourished. Muscle is made out of mostly water! It's not too late to start drinking more. Being hydrated will help your kidneys and liver. Go grab you a bottle right now. Also, if you could post a pic looking directly at the camera, that would help. The edges of the sclera of the eye can often be a different color due to a higher density of blood vessels. Anyway, keep an eye on it, but don't panic.

<img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=51575"/>
Thanks bro here's a straight on pic
 

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Jonny784

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Thanks bro here's a straight on pic
Ok thanks. There's definitely some mild yellowing in the eye, but your skin tone appears normal and healthy. I'd agree with AaronJP1 that there might be some mild liver stress. Even if the yellowing is not directly caused by liver stress, your liver has definitely been through the ringer with your SD cycle, so be sure treat it right. Continue to drink adequate fluids regularly. Dehydration itself can cause liver stress and yellowing eyes. It will take at least a couple days for your body water to re-equilibrate fully, so drink water consistently for the next several days (and forever for that matter). Personally if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't go to the doctor unless my symptoms worsened, but that's just me. Of course avoid all alcohol. Check for worsened symptoms over the next couple days. If it doesn't clear up or start getting better within a few days, I'd go to the doc. Not professional advice, but take it for what it is.
 
bluedevil00

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Ok thanks. There's definitely some mild yellowing in the eye, but your skin tone appears normal and healthy. I'd agree with AaronJP1 that there might be some mild liver stress. Even if the yellowing is not directly caused by liver stress, your liver has definitely been through the ringer with your SD cycle, so be sure treat it right. Continue to drink adequate fluids regularly. Dehydration itself can cause liver stress and yellowing eyes. It will take at least a couple days for your body water to re-equilibrate fully, so drink water consistently for the next several days (and forever for that matter). Personally if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't go to the doctor unless my symptoms worsened, but that's just me. Of course avoid all alcohol. Check for worsened symptoms over the next couple days. If it doesn't clear up or start getting better within a few days, I'd go to the doc. Not professional advice, but take it for what it is.
Thanks a lot man I really appreciate it. Maybe I'm just panicking I'll try to keep the water intake around 2gal this week and up the cycle support to 12 caps. Hopefully it will subside.
 
GMG760

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They look a bit yellow, but it's not full blown jaundice. I'd say lack of h2o is your culprit. Start drinking a gallon a day. Buy a gallon and carry that ish around with you all day till you finish it. you could just refill it with tap water and that would be better than not drinking water ... It's not like you live In Tijuana. Don't drop the torem, go spend 12 bucks on some milk thistle and drink you some water. You'll be g2g.
 
AaronJP1

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Try these suggestions for 3-4 days...
No change see a doc
 
mattrag

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How was your diet?
Be specific. not macro spread, i wanna know what kinds of foods you ate, and if you experienced any kind of noticeable discomfort, bloat, or energy from them.
 
CopyCat

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As stated looks like early symptoms. Up water intake, up support supps, add in some more milk thistle maybe, and see if it doesn't get better in a few days. How long have you been in pct? What hase your Torem dosing been. I ask cause if you have been at 90 for awhile I wouldn't be against dropping down to 60 and maybe go down to 30 a little earlier as well. Still would use the Torem though for awhile. There is a thread on here how to get cheap blood work. I suggest you look into that and post it up here. Jaundice is normally a result of high billirubin. So the blood work would help pinpoint if this is the case. Can also let you know if you can drop the Torem faster. Lastly, I suggest you run your support supps longer than you would normally and def take a good long amount of time off of ph/aas and stay away from alcohol and NSAIDs for quite some time.
 
mattrag

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As stated looks like early symptoms. Up water intake, up support supps, add in some more milk thistle maybe, and see if it doesn't get better in a few days. How long have you been in pct? What hase your Torem dosing been. I ask cause if you have been at 90 for awhile I wouldn't be against dropping down to 60 and maybe go down to 30 a little earlier as well. Still would use the Torem though for awhile. There is a thread on here how to get cheap blood work. I suggest you look into that and post it up here. Jaundice is normally a result of high billirubin. So the blood work would help pinpoint if this is the case. Can also let you know if you can drop the Torem faster. Lastly, I suggest you run your support supps longer than you would normally and def take a good long amount of time off of ph/aas and stay away from alcohol and NSAIDs for quite some time.

Good advice here. Stay away from tylenol, it's hepatoxic. (toxic to your liver)
 
AaronJP1

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As stated looks like early symptoms. Up water intake, up support supps, add in some more milk thistle maybe, and see if it doesn't get better in a few days. How long have you been in pct? What hase your Torem dosing been. I ask cause if you have been at 90 for awhile I wouldn't be against dropping down to 60 and maybe go down to 30 a little earlier as well. Still would use the Torem though for awhile. There is a thread on here how to get cheap blood work. I suggest you look into that and post it up here. Jaundice is normally a result of high billirubin. So the blood work would help pinpoint if this is the case. Can also let you know if you can drop the Torem faster. Lastly, I suggest you run your support supps longer than you would normally and def take a good long amount of time off of ph/aas and stay away from alcohol and NSAIDs for quite some time.
isn't that's what's in GDAs that's makes your stools green? Bike flow?
Am I wrong?
 
AaronJP1

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CopyCat

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Too much bilirubin (bile)? Too much is not good no. Yes you do need it. Like everything else there is a homeostasis that is needed. In the case of jaundice it is mostly because bilirubin is too high. Bilirubin is too high because the liver and/or kidneys etc are not working properly. Correct that last part and the rest should fall back into place.
 
AaronJP1

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Too much bilirubin (bile)? Too much is not good no. Yes you do need it. Like everything else there is a homeostasis that is needed. In the case of jaundice it is mostly because bilirubin is too high. Bilirubin is too high because the liver and/or kidneys etc are not working properly. Correct that last part and the rest should fall back into place.
Mine is because of GDA usage
 
mattrag

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wow, never new that GDAs causing increase in liver bil was the cause of the green craps. I never got any of that... but I have had friends who said that glycobol gave them the green poop.
I have dosed glycobol at 8 caps a day and no green poop... odd....lol
 
AaronJP1

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wow, never new that GDAs causing increase in liver bil was the cause of the green craps. I never got any of that... but I have had friends who said that glycobol gave them the green poop.
I have dosed glycobol at 8 caps a day and no green poop... odd....lol
Very minor with glycobol...
Noticed a shít ton with recompadrol!
Right now I don't know if thats a good or bad thing.
 
CopyCat

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Very minor with glycobol...
Noticed a shít ton with recompadrol!
Right now I don't know if thats a good or bad thing.
Eh, prolly neither here nor there in that case.
 
AaronJP1

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Recompadrol... still need to give that a try.
Run it against Need2slin.
 
AaronJP1

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Recompadrol... still need to give that a try.
Run it against Need2slin.
Got 1 bottle & order another, may send it back though because I don't need 2 bottles haha.
1 bottle is 180 caps!
 
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Got 1 bottle & order another, may send it back though because I don't need 2 bottles haha.
1 bottle is 180 caps!
Seems like loads of ppl on here are interested in it. Try selling it to a fellow US resident ;)

Im probably going to run it when I go back home to Hawaii next month for a short 3 week vacation. :D


OP: What you been eating + No alcohol + longer time use of cycle supports + no NSAIDS (pain killers).
 
bluedevil00

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Thanks everyone! I'm gonna clean out the diet, up cycle assist to 12/Ed, and increase my water intake by at least double, and drop torem to 60mg, and see how i react. On a good note my eyes are the same if not a little clearer today. Deffinatly not worse. I really appreciate all the input and opinions guys. Is daa liver toxic? I don't imagine it would be but It does give me a heartburn feeling like torem so idk if it messes with the ph in my Stomach? Should I lay off? I honestly have had no side effects until now with these yellow eyes and heart burn/nausea
 
MuscleMD

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Ideally when you get any sort of jaundice you should stop your cycle to prevent acute drug induced hepatitis but that's easier said then done. If your improving then continue at minimal doses. You got good advice from previous responses, drink tins of water and cut out all other liver drugs such as antibiotics, Tylenol, NSAIDs etc.
 
bluedevil00

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Ideally when you get any sort of jaundice you should stop your cycle to prevent acute drug induced hepatitis but that's easier said then done. If your improving then continue at minimal doses. You got good advice from previous responses, drink tins of water and cut out all other liver drugs such as antibiotics, Tylenol, NSAIDs etc.
Is that form of hepatitis contagious?
 
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No it's not. Hepatitis just means inflammation and drug induced is self explanatory.
 
bluedevil00

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What should I do if I go to the doctor? Should I tell them what I've been taking or play stupid?
 
AaronJP1

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What should I do if I go to the doctor? Should I tell them what I've been taking or play stupid?
I would just be honest.
Say u purchased a bottle of muscle building pills online took them and now this happened.....
 
MuscleMD

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You have to be honest bro or else what's the point of going? They're docs not cops, trust me.
 
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I'm sure the labs aren't back yet, but how are your symptoms?
 
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Same thing happened to me in from SD back in 05. First thing I noticed was decreased appetite. After that itching, especially in the feet and back. The yellowing of eyes was the last thing to happen. Pretty much when you are at that point the damage has already been done. Taking more support supplements isn't going to do anything but put more stress on the liver. Toremifene can also be liver toxic at the high dosages used for PCT. Your bilirubin levels may not be high enough yet to cause the itching. Bilirubin is what can cause your piss to look bright yellow like that and it is also the reason for the yellowing of the skin.

I had Drug induced cholestasis. If I were you I'd cut down my supplements significantly or go off of them completely.

I spent several months in and out of the hospital and was referred to a specialist in hepatology on a liver transplant team. I even remember the The doctor I saw....Funny how I can remember stuff like that but finding my keys is an expedition.
 
AaronJP1

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Same thing happened to me in from SD back in 05. First thing I noticed was decreased appetite. After that itching, especially in the feet and back. The yellowing of eyes was the last thing to happen. Pretty much when you are at that point the damage has already been done. Taking more support supplements isn't going to do anything but put more stress on the liver. Toremifene can also be liver toxic at the high dosages used for PCT. Your bilirubin levels may not be high enough yet to cause the itching. Bilirubin is what can cause your piss to look bright yellow like that and it is also the reason for the yellowing of the skin.

I had Drug induced cholestasis. If I were you I'd cut down my supplements significantly or go off of them completely.
That's why I stopped p-mag... My appetite was in the dumper!!!!!!! Won't try a methyl for a while haha...

I'm curious about bilirubin, because I use recompadrol a lot and shít green.... I wonder if that could in some way be harming me?
 

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Very minor with glycobol...
Noticed a shít ton with recompadrol!
Right now I don't know if thats a good or bad thing.
its fine. it means your liver, gallbladder ect are working properly. More bile flow means livers working and less is stored in the gallbladder which aids in its function. Also according to study below "stimulation of bile flow can help the liver dispose of wastes"

http://www.orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1998/pdf/1998-v13n04-p233.pdf

Bile is a precursor to cholesterol as well.

Hepatobiliary excretion of berberine.
Drug Metab Dispos. 2004.
To investigate the detailed pharmacokinetics of berberine and its mechanisms of hepatobiliary excretion, an in vivo microdialysis coupled with high-performance liquid chromatography was performed. In the control group, rats received berberine alone; in the drug-treated group, 10 min before berberine administration, the rats were injected with cyclosporin A (CsA), a P-glycoprotein (P-gp) inhibitor; quinidine, both organic cation transport (OCT) and P-gp inhibitors; SKF-525A (proadifen), a cytochrome P450 inhibitor; and probenecid to inhibit the glucuronidation. The results indicate that berberine displays a linear pharmacokinetic phenomenon in the dosage range from 10 to 20 mg kg(-1), since a proportional increase in the area under the concentration-time curve (AUC) of berberine was observed in this dosage range. Moreover, berberine was processed through hepatobiliary excretion against a concentration gradient based on the bile-to-blood distribution ratio (AUC(bile)/AUC(blood)); the active berberine efflux might be affected by P-gp and OCT since coadministration of berberine and CsA or quinidine at the same dosage of 10 mg kg(-1) significantly decreased the berberine amount in bile. In addition, berberine was metabolized in the liver with phase I demethylation and phase II glucuronidation, as identified by liquid chromatography/tandem mass spectrometry. Also, the phase I metabolism of berberine was partially reduced by SKF-525A treatment, but the phase II glucuronidation of berberine was not obviously affected by probenecid under the present study design.
 
Jasen

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Milk thistle 2000mg a day, choline, ala. these three together r so powerful im sure recovery be quick
 
AaronJP1

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its fine. it means your liver, gallbladder ect are working properly. More bile flow means livers working and less is stored in the gallbladder which aids in its function. Also according to study below "stimulation of bile flow can help the liver dispose of wastes"

http://www.orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1998/pdf/1998-v13n04-p233.pdf

Bile is a precursor to cholesterol as well.

Hepatobiliary excretion of berberine.
Drug Metab Dispos. 2004.
To investigate the detailed pharmacokinetics of berberine and its mechanisms of hepatobiliary excretion, an in vivo microdialysis coupled with high-performance liquid chromatography was performed. In the control group, rats received berberine alone; in the drug-treated group, 10 min before berberine administration, the rats were injected with cyclosporin A (CsA), a P-glycoprotein (P-gp) inhibitor; quinidine, both organic cation transport (OCT) and P-gp inhibitors; SKF-525A (proadifen), a cytochrome P450 inhibitor; and probenecid to inhibit the glucuronidation. The results indicate that berberine displays a linear pharmacokinetic phenomenon in the dosage range from 10 to 20 mg kg(-1), since a proportional increase in the area under the concentration-time curve (AUC) of berberine was observed in this dosage range. Moreover, berberine was processed through hepatobiliary excretion against a concentration gradient based on the bile-to-blood distribution ratio (AUC(bile)/AUC(blood)); the active berberine efflux might be affected by P-gp and OCT since coadministration of berberine and CsA or quinidine at the same dosage of 10 mg kg(-1) significantly decreased the berberine amount in bile. In addition, berberine was metabolized in the liver with phase I demethylation and phase II glucuronidation, as identified by liquid chromatography/tandem mass spectrometry. Also, the phase I metabolism of berberine was partially reduced by SKF-525A treatment, but the phase II glucuronidation of berberine was not obviously affected by probenecid under the present study design.
Thx.
All I wanted to know was that it was a good thing :)
 
bluedevil00

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Hey guys gonna see the doc for more blood work again tomorrow. So far they are saying acute drug enduced hepatitis. My bilirubin levels were between 12 and 13 waiting for the rest of the #s and results of the ultrasound. Itching is intense, skin is yellow but over all I think im improving. Doc said no more supplements what so ever. So just a strict diet lots of rest and lots of fluid. Thanks for the concern guys
 
AaronJP1

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Hey guys gonna see the doc for more blood work again tomorrow. So far they are saying acute drug enduced hepatitis. My bilirubin levels were between 12 and 13 waiting for the rest of the #s and results of the ultrasound. Itching is intense, skin is yellow but over all I think im improving. Doc said no more supplements what so ever. So just a strict diet lots of rest and lots of fluid. Thanks for the concern guys
That there superdol phucked u up...
How long were u on it and at what dose?

How will he fix ur liver?
 
mattrag

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Hey guys gonna see the doc for more blood work again tomorrow. So far they are saying acute drug enduced hepatitis. My bilirubin levels were between 12 and 13 waiting for the rest of the #s and results of the ultrasound. Itching is intense, skin is yellow but over all I think im improving. Doc said no more supplements what so ever. So just a strict diet lots of rest and lots of fluid. Thanks for the concern guys
DAMN. I ran Mdrol for 5 weeks and the only side I experienced was I got super huge. (Granted I was on a lot of support supps.... and I do take them year round.)
 

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