ANABOLIC STEROID USAGE AND THYROID SUPPRESSION-article by PATRICK ARNOLD
- 01-03-2012, 11:41 PM
ANABOLIC STEROID USAGE AND THYROID SUPPRESSION-article by PATRICK ARNOLD
ANABOLIC STEROID USAGE AND THYROID SUPPRESSION
Bodybuilders who use large amounts of anabolic steroids often report lethargy as a side effect. Sleepiness, irritability, and foggy-headness are commonly reported by users of some of the more powerful anabolic steroids in large dosages. The cause of this lethargy has been the subject of debate in the performance-enhancement drug community, and the solution may be multifactorial. Published studies have given reason to suspect that thyroid hormone suppression may be one of these factors.
There are two major thyroid hormones, T4 and T3. T3 is considered the most active thyroid hormone, and its job is to act as a sort of ter regulator of every major aspect of metabolism- from protein thesis to carbohydrate and fat oxidation. T3 acts in general as a metabolic stimulator, and in addition to its influence on how the uses fuel for energy and tissue building, it also works to generate heat production (thermogenesis) via enhancement of uncoupling protein 1 (UCP-1) expression in the liver.
The production of too much thyroid hormone (hyperthyroidism) and too little thyroid hormone (hypothyroidism) are both undesirable conditions. Hyperthyroidism leads to overstimulation of the nervous system (resulting in elevated heart rate and nervousness), as well loss of lean body mass due to protein catabolism. Hypothyroidism; the other hand, leads to depression and fatigue, as well as other symptoms such as joint pain, sensitivity to cold, and fat gain.
ANABOLIC STEROIDS AND THYROID SUPPRESSION
As I stated in my introduction, published studies have confirmed that anabolic steroid use can suppress thyroid hormone levels in the blood. It appears that this is not due so much to a decrease in the production of the main thyroid hormone (T4) in the thyroid gland, however. What really is the culprit of the suppression is debatable, as different studies have found different things. Two things are clear, though. The levels of total and free active thyroid hormone (T3) are decreased with anabolic steroid use, and T4 thyroid hormone-binding globulin levels are markedly elevated. However, free T4 appears to be unchanged, as does TSH, which is the hormone that your brain produces to stimulate thyroid hormone production in the thyroid gland. So what is happening is not entirely clear. It may be a combination of disrupted conversion of T4 to T3 and/or interference of bioavailable T4 levels by excessive T4 thyroid hormone-binding globulin. Whatever the case, levels of the active thyroid hormoneT3 can be suppressed by anabolic steroid use- particularly at higher dosages. Such suppression can interfere with maximum muscle growth from a cycle, as optimal protein synthesis activity is dependent upon ideal T3 levels in the body.
It is interesting to note that bodybuilders have discovered by trial and error that thyroid hormone supplementation leads to greater gains during a cycle. I am pretty sure that this anecdotal discovery was made without the knowledge that AAS (anabolic-androgenic steroid) usage is thyroid suppressive.Olympus labs super pct, don't cycle without it. It's the best IMO. Get some an you'll be glad you did Olympus labs rep
- 01-03-2012, 11:45 PM
So this begs the question, what ways, other than t3 could we prevent this? or if no other way is possible, what would be the dosage of t3 needed to keep the body in a close to normal state, without crossing over into a catabolic state?
so far, i personally have used otc stims such as ephedrine, etc as ways of combating the lethargy, but at a cost. I wonder how useful t2 supplementation would/could be, if any?
discuss.....Olympus labs super pct, don't cycle without it. It's the best IMO. Get some an you'll be glad you did Olympus labs rep
- 01-03-2012, 11:49 PM
maybe a thyoid support herbal product such as this one from gaia herbs...?
Olympus labs super pct, don't cycle without it. It's the best IMO. Get some an you'll be glad you did Olympus labs rep
01-03-2012, 11:50 PM
There was a recent article and study about T2 being the most effective thyroid hormone for weight loss, something about not being as catabolic but still affecting the thyroid. I'll try it find it. And I'm not talking the supp alpha t-2, the synthetic that would be a research supp like t3/t4
01-03-2012, 11:51 PM
yea, i read that article in the m&d magazine, i believe it was this months issue. i have it at home, and can type it up if it cant be found online, but it'll have to wait until i get back from vietnam next week.
but, we wouldn't be wanting to use the product for fat loss, just to help maintain normal thyroid function, allowing us to continue getting maximal gains, without getting fat.
01-03-2012, 11:54 PM
I'm definately interested in this since I'm on armour for hypothyroidism and contemplating supplementing ph or anything that actually "works" and won't conflict with a thyroid condition.
01-03-2012, 11:56 PM
I added tt33 from iforce to my sdrol cycle and noticed that I have close to no lethargy.
Also, perhaps shbg has something to do with it? And I remember seeing an article on primordials site about how androhard helps rebalance thyroid function?
01-04-2012, 12:07 AM
well, if the pp guys want to post that, along with source info to i can check it out, i'd be happy to have it in here. just hope they dont come in pushing products, this isn't that kind of thread. you can post info without talking about your product.
01-04-2012, 12:17 AM
Androsterone Lowers Cholesterol and Mimics Thyroid HormoneOriginally Posted by jbryand101b
Posted on June 13, 2011 by Matt Porter
Research shows that the sex hormone Androsterone has the capabilities to lower bad cholesterol (LDL), and increase oxygen consumption similar to active thyroid hormone (T3). These findings indicate that Androsterone may have the ability to keep your heart healthy while stimulating a better metabolic rate - via - increased oxygen consumption.
Researcher's investigated Androsterones effects on 3 patients with hypercholsteremia (high cholesterol), normal cholesterol, and a patient with myxedema (hypothyroidism/low thyroid). The steroid (androsterone), in a single daily dosage of 50 mgs was given intra-muscularly in sesame oil & benzyl alcohol. This procedure was adhered to for 34 days.
Some interesting findings were reported -
There was a significant decline in the serum cholesterol level in all 3 subjects. The cholesterol lowering effect was most profound in the patient with hypothyroidism (low thyroid), which caused an 18 to 40 percent decrease in elevated serum cholesterol levels. The decrease was obvious in both free and esterified cholesterol fractions.
However, following the Androsterone treatment, after cessation of the steroid hormone, serum cholesterol concentrations returned to pre-treatment levels EXCEPT in the patient with hypothyroidism (low thyroid). Researcher's experimented with several other steroid hormones only to find that they all INCREASED bad cholesterol opposing Androsterones effects.
How about Androsterones activity replicating thyroid-like functions?
It has been documented that the level of thyroid function significantly influences the production of endogenous androgen levels. People with hypothyroidism (low thyroid) are characterized by an absolute and relative DECREASE in Androsterone levels. Patients that had low and normal thyroid functions underwent cytomel (prescription T3 hormone) treatment, they produced both an absolute and relative INCREASE in Androsterone levels. Patients with HYPERthyroidism (over-active thyroid) displayed higher endogenous Androsterone levels.
It is clear that Androsterone demonstrates a thyromimetic characteristic due to increasing a person's rate of oxygen consumption, which in turn can also lower cholesterol levels. Androsterone is pretty exciting because it seems to be a possible treatment for people displaying hypercholesteremia (elevated cholesterol) symptoms. This is fascinating because the androgens in which Androsterone is derived from are often associated with hyperlipidemic states (elevated cholesterol).
In men, androgenic hormones decline in the aging process, therefore, it may be in a male's best interest to supplement with Androsterone to defend against atherosclerosis (clogged arteries), and a compromised rate of oxygen consumption due to decreased thyroid output.
1.) Skovasted, J. Molholm Hansen , M. Kristernsen and L Korsgaard Christensen, The androsterone-etiocholanolone extretion ratio in Hyper- and Hypothyroidism. Vol. 180, fasc. 3 1966
2.) Samuel G Kahn, Thyroid-androgen interrelation in the dietary hypercholesterolemic rat, April, 1965
3.) LEON HELLMAN, M.D, H. LEON BRADLOW , ph D, B ZUMOFF, M.D., DAVID k FUKISHIMA, pH d. AND T.F. GALLEGHER, pH d. THYROID-ANDROGEN INTERRELATIONS AND HYPERCHOLESTERMIC EFFECT OF ANDROSTERONE, FEBRUARY 11, 1959
01-04-2012, 12:30 AM
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01-04-2012, 02:35 AM
Interesting indeed, I'll have to check out those studies myself, but it is important to note androsterone was injected, not taken orally.
And when they say increased oxygen consumption, do the mean breath harder, or increases v02 max?
Bold claims, going to have to look more into it.
01-04-2012, 08:23 AM
Any experiences with t3 + aas like sd, or others?
01-04-2012, 09:55 AM
Are there any indications or examples of this suppression being permanent or lasting after the cessation of the aas? Or is this a temporary side effect?
Also, should something for thyroid stimulation be used as part of pct, analogous to the use of test boosters/SERMs for testosterone suppression?
Thanks for any input, interesting thread
01-04-2012, 11:34 AM
I imagine (or hope if you will) it is a temporary side effect, but like other functions such as hpta functions, it probably could cause irreversible damage (disruption) just like shut down is temp, but some people become perm shut down.
01-04-2012, 12:17 PM
this stuff is kind of old news.
Steroids effect TBG and TBPA, which can effect circulating t3 levels.
some steroids reduce them which INCREASE circulating thyroid hormones.
Its all in Seth Roberts anabolic pharmacology book. Its been out for a little while now, i recommend that if you want to know more you pick up that text, and read up on the AAS you want to use.
01-04-2012, 12:43 PM
01-04-2012, 01:25 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guggulsterone They look just like androstededione but with the ene-ane group on C-16. They were supposed to reduce cholesterol and increase thyroid function. But check it out...
"Broad spectrum steroid receptor ligand; binds with high affinity to mineralocorticoid receptors (K i = 39 nM) and lower affinity to progesterone, androgen and glucocorticoid receptors (K i values are 201, 240 and 224 nM respectively). Functions primarily as an antagonist of these receptors, with the exception of the progesterone receptor where it displays partial agonist effects. Also exerts hypolipidemic activity, likely via antagonism of the receptor for bile acids (farnesoid X receptor; FXR)." http://www.chemicalbook.com/Chemical..._CB7309069.htm
Blocks androgen and glucocorticoid receptors, increases progesterone sensitivity, increases thyroid. Not surprising since blocking AR is the opposite of stimulating it with AAS.
Could also indicate that since its hypolipidemic effect likely comes from blocking the farsenoid X receptor, androgens that cause higher cholesterol likely do so by agonizing that receptor.
So how do we stimulate global thyroid function while on cycle? Negative feedback, as always, is an obstacle here. In this case multipronged. An article I found http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/coffeecalcium.htm states that T4 and TSH production are increased by chronic caffeine usage (some preworkout supps could probably qualify) and that such usage blunted TRH mediated TSH production. Unfortunately the link for the study it cited did not work, but what I dug up regarding b-2 agonists like ephedra and its cAMP stimulation indicated that it doesn't have much effect on thyroid function.
One of the few ways I KNOW increases thyroid hormone is eating. Take a 160 lb 20 year old eating 2000kcal/day. Bump that to 2500 and he will have an increase in TSH/T3/T4 but also start gaining weight. Say as an example his thyroid-mediated metabolism is now fast enough to burn 2250 kcal/day, and he has a 250kcal/day surplus. If he does cardio to compensate for the 250 extra calories not endo-metabolically compensated for by the thyroid stimulation, his weight will remain roughly static, but he will now have higher thyroid hormone levels. This is probably why it helps so much to eat more when we start lifting naturally; not only do we have the macronutrients at our disposal, but with higher thyroid function some of the anabolic reactions necessary to promote growth will be accelerated as well. (See the last paragraph in the above article.)
One more note. I believe there is probably a body fat percentage that is correlated to optimal thyroid hormone output. Higher fat levels increase estrogen levels, which increases thyroxine-binding globulin(TBG), which may be why it is harder to lose fat on highly aromatizing agents, or agents that aromatize to potent, long-half-life estrogen (17-a-methyl-estradiol, for example).
One supplement I do know will enhance thyroid function is zinc, while copper inhibits it, probably by blocking absorption/utilization of zinc. This however may be related directly to androgen-enhancing affects of zinc which begs the question... If zinc increases androgen levels, why would that stimulate thyroid function while AAS inhibit TSH? It may be that zinc stimulates TSH independant of sex hormones, or more likely in my opinion, it is the supraphysiological estrogen levels generated by AAS use, and the concurrent TBG increase, that are the most obvious culprit.
You can run around and around the diagrams but it sill seems to lead there. Certainly creates an argument for use of AI's on cycle to keep estrogen levels in check for thyroid sake, though inhibiting aromatase too strongly will have separate, deleterious consequences.
01-04-2012, 02:40 PM
Been looking into t4 supplementation in regard to lowered thyroid function from increased GH/igf-1 levels. T4 appears to be crucial to use due it being a prohormone to T3 ---and that conversion process needs to be present and not "skipped." Deiodinase is a peroxidase enzyme that either activates or deactivates thyroid hormones.
01-04-2012, 02:56 PM
Im currently on T3 stacked with hdrol, trenazone, and pstanz. Using the t3 at 50mcgs to help cut a little. I took it after my last SD run and it helped with mood, though was probably catabolic
01-04-2012, 11:25 PM
Thanks dumb asss, your input was very informative to the discussion.Originally Posted by ssbackwards
This isn't a fcukin news flash its a discussion on a topic that i havn't seen discussed in here
01-04-2012, 11:29 PM
can't believe i read all that, jebus.Originally Posted by TestEinstein
01-04-2012, 11:35 PM
T4 seems to remain unchanged or sightly elevated, so don't think out would help cause there seems to be some lack of conversion of t3 but worth a shot, nice post.Originally Posted by MattPorter
01-04-2012, 11:38 PM
That's what I'm talking about, thank you, wonder how it would do with sd, or better yet, m1t at that dosage...Originally Posted by jamesm11
01-05-2012, 12:24 AM
Probably help with the lethargy, I'm noticing it's kept my mood and energy from crashing like most of my other cycles. I'd expect the same with SD, and it'd probably have some aesthetic benefits. As for M1T never gonna try it but I'd assume the same
01-05-2012, 12:27 AM
Like I stated earlier I am on mdrol/androhard and using tt33@ 4 caps a day. Donno what I'd be looking for but I have very minimal lethargy and gaining weight pretty steadily. 10lbs initially and about 2 lbs a week. While keeping cals relatively stable.Originally Posted by jbryand101b
01-05-2012, 12:38 AM
01-05-2012, 02:53 AM
Definitely good thread. And making me research more and more. Jbry you always bring up some interesting stuff!
01-05-2012, 12:40 PM
01-06-2012, 12:13 AM
Well, I'm pretty sure all the compounds I use, or will use, will have a negative impact, but I haven't read his book, only bits and pieces, but enough so that I've been recommending people read it for the last 4 years.
01-06-2012, 12:18 AM
As I (or you guys) experience different stuff, I'll update this thread with my thoughts/opinions, so far ive had okay experience using ephedrine with compounds like sd, msten, boladiol, hdrol, dimethazine, will be trying other things in the future though.
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