25g vs 23g vs 22g

[gaijininjapan]

So I was drawing up some warmed up andropen w/ a 22g and it took a while. wondering I should warm it up even more? the oil was maybe a little below body temp at the time of draw.

I then tried to pin with a 25g, and man that took forever! and so much pressure required. Definitely different from peptides w/ slin pin. I might look into just using prop next time around, could care less about the slight prick ED or EOD.

Also, it was weird, about 1/2 way in, felt nothing, then started feeling a lil discomfort as it went further in (quads). What's the reason for this?

 

[heckler7]

what is the needle length. I use 23g 1 1/2. doesnt hurt to pin but next day feels like i was hit in the thigh with a bat.

 

[gaijininjapan]

1.5" going in about 1-1.25. can't imagine how difficult it would be pinning glutes, just the location and the amount of force required scares me. I'll see how this turns out over the next few days, but I think I will be sticking to my quads for now. 1" seems too deep for delts. Might try 23g next time. we'll see...

 

[heckler7]

how often are you pinning? I would rotate sites at least glutes and thighs left and right. I couldnt imagine how sore my legs would be if I just pinned thighs. You can order smaller pins off amazon pretty quick delivery for cheap.

 

[gaijininjapan]

2x/wk
I have a source for pins, no prob there. problem is the viscosity of the oil taking forever to pin. I don't think I need to go that deep either, quads are relatively lean, unless there's a good reason to get deep into the muscle.

 

[CCV3]

You are comparing oil to water.
It takes much longer to inject, so keep your hand steady!

How's the gyms in Japan anyways? I heard they were insanely expensive for a membership and they aren't as abundant in the US.

 

[gaijininjapan]

not in Japan right now, but the commercial gyms are about 120-150/month with the current conversion rates.
However, there are municipal gyms which are about $1-2 per entrance, but it's hit or miss as to what equipment they have. I went to a municipal gym that only had a flat bench, inclined bench, 2 squat racks, and a preacher curl thing. They had a universal station, but it was probably over 20 yrs old. Worked out fine, never crowded, only serious lifters there. However, the commercial gyms are nice; this one commercial gym I went to had the cardio machines lines up in front of the studio classroom where all the high school and college girls would go to take hip hop and aerobics classes... I think that alone would've been worth the price of admission.

As for oil injection, I noticed it took forever... what a PITA seriously. I think I'll use a 23g next time, but such a large needle is intimidating. FML

 

[GMG760]

23 isn't too different from 25. I'd use either without hesitation, but since you have a source just use 25s and take your time. From what I understand 25 just has less chance of scar tissue build up. The pain was almost negligible in difference. Just take your time with the 25.

 

[gaijininjapan]

23 isn't too different from 25.

They certainly look visibly different. 0.25 and .20", 20% diameter difference. You do bring up a good point w/ the scar tissue, I have enough from giant mosquito bites during deployment, and certainly don't need any more.

I just don't know if I can hold steady that long if I pin my glutes. thigh is okay, but I think it'll get rather annoying to have one leg sore all the time. Soreness in my rump seems to go away after 2 days, but that was from a penicillin shot.

GMG, have your muscles gotten used to the pinning? did soreness go away faster for you?

 

[GMG760]

They certainly look visibly different. 0.25 and .20", 20% diameter difference. You do bring up a good point w/ the scar tissue, I have enough from giant mosquito bites during deployment, and certainly don't need any more.

I just don't know if I can hold steady that long if I pin my glutes. thigh is okay, but I think it'll get rather annoying to have one leg sore all the time. Soreness in my rump seems to go away after 2 days, but that was from a penicillin shot.

GMG, have your muscles gotten used to the pinning? did soreness go away faster for you?

I tend to get uses to each brand of gear, then when I switch to a new brand or blend I get sore again. I also seem to have spots on my glutes that seem to knot up worse than others, so one shot may be completely unnoticeable, and others still get sore. I'm lucky in the fact that I pin my quads and my lady pins my glutes so I don't have to contort myself to do the pin. I have done it in the past to myself, but it's just way simpler to use her, plus she's a nurse and knows what I am up to, so I might as well make it easier on myself. Plus I think she feels important or at least involved, which I think she likes.

 

[gaijininjapan]

Yeah, you're lucky. I don't think I will be able to pin my glutes, so I hope my quads get used to it.

 

[gymrat827]

i dont think the pin pain would be that bad if you pin your glute and than go do squats & leg presses. Massage the area when you pull out the pin, sleep on a heat pad. Even cut the gear with sterile grape seed oil.

 

[Bigs]

I believe if you massage it right after taking the needle out, it could cause the test or whatever your injecting to come out.

 

[heckler7]

I believe if you massage it right after taking the needle out, it could cause the test or whatever your injecting to come out.

I also read somewhere not to massage the area after pinning, just apply light pressure.

 

[DetroitHammer]

I believe if you massage it right after taking the needle out, it could cause the test or whatever your injecting to come out.

It won't come out, but you will have destroyed the depot and you don't want to do that. You want to preserve the depot so ester cleavage is predictable...Also, to me the difference between a 23ga and a 25ga. is like night and day. Huge difference in expulsion of oil.

 

[Bigs]

It won't come out, but you will have destroyed the depot and you don't want to do that. You want to preserve the depot so ester cleavage is predictable...Also, to me the difference between a 23ga and a 25ga. is like night and day. Huge difference in expulsion of oil.

Either way, don't massage it lol

 

[gaijininjapan]

No massaging? how does a little massage destroy oil? that's like saying jolting the bottle will destroy the esters...?

Also, detroit, what do you mean destroy the depot? not sure what you mean, can you explain a bit? going to do my 2nd pin tonight, and will most likely be pinning my other leg with a 23g this time.

 

[heckler7]

when you inject the lump you get in the muscle is the bolus that dissolves over time giving you your timed release. Since the shot has increased pressure at the site, you dont wont to further increase the pressure buy massaging and causing more scarring and possible nerve damaging, or aplying heat to an already inflammed site. best practice is to use a cold pack.

 

[gaijininjapan]

That's interesting, and goes against most medial injection advice of massaging the site. idea is that the injected substance dissipates among the muscle fibers.

Your theory also makes sense as well, but why would the site be inflamed?

 

[unvme2]

Well, I have been using 25G x 1.0" in the glutes and it works out fine. I use 18G to draw which takes no time at tall and yes. Using a 25G, it does take a moment to push the oil through but it's ok. I only use glutes and I just take my time. Keep the hand steady, and control my breathing and just push. With the 25G, there is only a little prick when the needle passes the skin and there is no pain at all and there is less chance of scar tissue buildup. Just need to take your time when you push through. I am using a test400 blend of cyp, enth, and prop and when I first started, man was there pain afterwards. I do massage the site for five minutes afterwards and it has worked wonders. I also heat up the vial with hot water while I take my shower. These two things makes a world of difference. I hear with just cyp or enth,this is not needed since it's a smooth test. But this blend is murder for pain but have been working through it.

 

[gaijininjapan]

used a 23g last night and either I just have bad luck in my left leg, or I have more veins there. no matter what I used, 29g slin pin, or this fat 23g, I always get some oozing afterwards while I get nothing in my right quads. anyways, there was a noticeable (to me) insertion wound after using the 23g, and not as noticeable w/ the 25g. However, it went a LOT faster w/ the 23g. I had to pause a few times to let the oil dissipate.

One thing that startled me a bit too, I found out that I was inadvertently slightly flexing my quad while pinning sitting down, when I fully relaxed mid-pin, the pin moved to an approx 30deg angel. so I just semi-flexed again and it was straight again. LOL maybe that's why I'm feeling it in the muscle as I go in, I was partially flexed w/o knowing it! oh well. time for left quad to be sore for the next 3 days. I think I've located the correct area in the ventroglute now, so I'll try that w/ a 25g next time.

 

[fueledpassion]

So I was drawing up some warmed up andropen w/ a 22g and it took a while. wondering I should warm it up even more? the oil was maybe a little below body temp at the time of draw.

I then tried to pin with a 25g, and man that took forever! and so much pressure required. Definitely different from peptides w/ slin pin. I might look into just using prop next time around, could care less about the slight prick ED or EOD.

Also, it was weird, about 1/2 way in, felt nothing, then started feeling a lil discomfort as it went further in (quads). What's the reason for this?

Prop goes in easy on a 25g.

Not so much for cyp or enan.

 

[fueledpassion]

1.5" going in about 1-1.25. can't imagine how difficult it would be pinning glutes, just the location and the amount of force required scares me. I'll see how this turns out over the next few days, but I think I will be sticking to my quads for now. 1" seems too deep for delts. Might try 23g next time. we'll see...

Tt isn't too deep if you have big shoulders Seriously though, I'm 152lbs, and my shoulders are very large for my size but really how much bigger could they be compared to someone 30-50lbs heavier. (I'm assuming you are much heavier than I, most are :disappointed

I used 1in 25g for delts when I did prop. Wasn't an issue and only got some oozing once or twice over an 8 week period. I pinned EOD with the exception of one week I pinned ED.

 

[heckler7]

http://wps.prenhall.com/chet_wilson_drugguides_1/0,5513,403564-,00.html I read that massaging after an IM shot destroys the tissue and cause more pressure in the lump that is already under pressure. A day or two after the shot there will most likely be inflamation so dont add more heat cause there may be an infection starting. I think your best bet would be to workout that muscle group within the day of inject to naturally warm up the muscle, but that is only my opinion I've been asking people for input to see if they have any experience with injecting at specific times.

 

[heckler7]

used a 23g last night and either I just have bad luck in my left leg, or I have more veins there. no matter what I used, 29g slin pin, or this fat 23g, I always get some oozing afterwards while I get nothing in my right quads. anyways, there was a noticeable (to me) insertion wound after using the 23g, and not as noticeable w/ the 25g. However, it went a LOT faster w/ the 23g. I had to pause a few times to let the oil dissipate.

One thing that startled me a bit too, I found out that I was inadvertently slightly flexing my quad while pinning sitting down, when I fully relaxed mid-pin, the pin moved to an approx 30deg angel. so I just semi-flexed again and it was straight again. LOL maybe that's why I'm feeling it in the muscle as I go in, I was partially flexed w/o knowing it! oh well. time for left quad to be sore for the next 3 days. I think I've located the correct area in the ventroglute now, so I'll try that w/ a 25g next time.

I had the same problem when I was pushing out the very last bit my leg felt like it spasmed a little, the next day I couldnt walk on it at all. I read that if you are having some oozing, at the inject site pull bak slightly with your thumb then stick the pin. when you are done pull the pin out the out then let go and it will seal the hole. its at the bottom of the link I posted above.

 

[unvme2]

25G are nice and no pain just when you break the skin barrier. But be patient. It takes a minute for the oil to get through the needle and you will need to be patient and try not to rush. It will be harder to push the plunger but its cool. Deep breaths and it's all good. If you are standing try and put your weight on the opposite leg you are pinning (in the glute) It helps to keep your glute relaxed. I lay down personally. For me, much easier then standing and trying to be gumby and reaching around.

 

[gaijininjapan]

For me, much easier then... reaching around.

Gigity... LOL

anyways, thanks everyone for the advise. I don't feel much of a difference massaging it or not afterwards, and taking a hot shower helped. My left leg isn't as sore as my right leg was, but maybe that'll change tomorrow? hmm, I always work out or warm up with swauts, so quads always get some working out within a day of the pin.

I've heard some people just jab it in like dart, but I don'tthink I can do that just yet, so I'll just keep doing what I do now.

BTW, Hecker, the "pull back slightly" thing you're talking about is referred to as a Z-line, where you purposely shift the tissue so that when you release the pressuer, the tissue goes back to its natural alignment and effectively seals off the holes. Hard to do unless you can pin w/ one hand (nearly impossible w/ 25g). Anyways, I'll try the glute next time, and see how that goes.

 

[sexyalexy]

I also seem to have spots on my glutes that seem to knot up worse than others, so one shot may be completely unnoticeable, and others still get sore. I'm lucky in the fact that I pin my quads and my lady pins my glutes so I don't have to contort myself to do the pin.

 

[heckler7]

your lucky your lady can pin you, I dont trust any to do it, my wife wanted to hit me with a slin pin, she pushed it in so hard I asked her if she was trying to stab me in my liver.

 

[rsr08]

your lucky your lady can pin you, I dont trust any to do it, my wife wanted to hit me with a slin pin, she pushed it in so hard I asked her if she was trying to stab me in my liver.

what muscle was ur wife tryin to inject u with that slin pin? lol

 

[heckler7]

what muscle was ur wife tryin to inject u with that slin pin? lol

stomach

 

[Blergs]

25g 1" for delts 23g 1.5" for glutes

 

[Blergs]

stomach

for AAS? IM? or just subQ?