Protecting Lipid Profiles on M1T

[Brodus]

After reading Supersoldier's bloodwork logs, and the recent thread concerning the M1T article at 1Fast, I am wondering if we can't devise some sort of protocol to protect against vascular damage/long-term heart/arterial problems, and also push the window of safety for M1T use to 4 short cycles a year, versus the current two.

For instance, running Red Yeast Rice (which is a natural source of the same thing in prescription Mevacor, a statin drug), Red Wine Extract, and Policosanol along with CoQ10 and Hawthorne Berry all year, and doubling up during cycle and PCT, seems like it might mitigate some of these harms associated with dramatic drops in good cholesterol.

Also, eating a lot of cholesterol during this time period might help (although it seems like SS did this). And cooking everything in Benecal (or any of the knock-offs), which is proven to improve cholesterol levels, might be a good idea.

Any thoughts?

 

[ryansm]

I would add Niacin to that list as well for improved HDL levels. I would like to know this as well. Maybe someone could run a cycle utilizing these different compounds?

 

[Jeff]

Is Red Rice Yeast still available, I thought the FDA already banned that stuff?

 

[Brodus]

Totally still available. NOW Foods sells it, and you can get it at 1fast. They had to change the label claims. The action was taken because it's the exact same thing as a prescription drug, lorastatin (I beleive), and it was being sold in health food stores as "Cholestin," and the pharmas complained. The fact is, though, it's natural and legal to sell under DSHEA.

I would like to try this protocol during my next M1T cycle...which keeps getting put fof the more I read! I just hate taking a ton of pills, b/c it makes it hard to assess which one is causing sides if you experience them, etc. But I could buy a few at-home Cholesterol tests, and give it a shot.

 

[bioman]

I've been pondering this as well and I think we need to consider something that L Rea mentions in AB. He talked about a fat/cholesterol build up at the liver when using methylated AAS. I remember something along the lines that it causes a backlod of lipids at the liver and I'm thinking THIS maybe the underlying cause of why we see such low lipid levels on M1T.

IE. M1T being about the harshest methyl, causing the most stress to the liver with the largest systemic effect on lipid profiles.

I had initially suggested to SS et al that eating lots of cholesterol while on M1T might help but now I'm thinking that this might be counterproductive or at least moot.

Some research shows that milk thistle compounds help the liver to metabolize fats in addition to protecting the liver from toxins. I think this might be the place we want to look first.

In the meantime I think we should advocate using the full array of liver protectants(R-ALA, NAC, MT) as well as cardio-vascular protectants (Hawethorne, Arjuna, grapeseed, resvertol, coQ-10, tocotrienols et cetera).


I think we should put together studies/data on the effectiveness of liver supps and try to determine if there is a correlating benefit to lipid values while on cycle. It's a tall order and one best served by someone with more of a medical background than I.

Cardio-vascular protectants should also be evaluated for their use in ultra-low lipid situations.

 

[ryansm]

I've been pondering this as well and I think we need to consider something that L Rea mentions in AB. He talked about a fat/cholesterol build up at the liver when using methylated AAS. I remember something along the lines that it causes a backlod of lipids at the liver and I'm thinking THIS maybe the underlying cause of why we see such low lipid levels on M1T.

IE. M1T being about the harshest methyl, causing the most stress to the liver with the largest systemic effect on lipid profiles.

I had initially suggested to SS et al that eating lots of cholesterol while on M1T might help but now I'm thinking that this might be counterproductive or at least moot.

Some research shows that milk thistle compounds help the liver to metabolize fats in addition to protecting the liver from toxins. I think this might be the place we want to look first.

In the meantime I think we should advocate using the full array of liver protectants(R-ALA, NAC, MT) as well as cardio-vascular protectants (Hawethorne, Arjuna, grapeseed, resvertol, coQ-10, tocotrienols et cetera).


I think we should put together studies/data on the effectiveness of liver supps and try to determine if there is a correlating benefit to lipid values while on cycle. It's a tall order and one best served by someone with more of a medical background than I.

Cardio-vascular protectants should also be evaluated for their use in ultra-low lipid situations.

The only way to go about this I believe Bioman is trial and error. I think we need some participants that can provide blood tests, and to use a guideline of sorts to follow.

 

[bioman]

You are probably right. I was just aiming at getting some data to back up our recommendations first.

 

[Redspy]

phytosterols and phytostanols.

How about adding plant phytosterols and phytostanols to the list? There's a patented formula called Reducol with positive clinical study claims, one showing declines of up to 24% in LDL. The Reducol formulation is included in products like Cholest-Off. See links below for further info:-

http://www.reducol.com
http://www.naturemade.com/wellnesstopics/wt_articles.asp?articleid=49
http://www.naturemade.com/ProductDatabase/prd_prod.asp?productid=62

There are also some phytosterols and phytostanols studies on Pubmed.

Just a suggestion.

 

[Brodus]

Do any of these products raise "good" cholesterol is the question.

 

[Redspy]

Do any of these products raise "good" cholesterol is the question.

Phytosterols do not appear to raise levels of HDL, or lower triglycerides for that matter. They do have very low side effects compared to statins though.

 

[cobra1414]

how bout just running low dose nolva throughout the cycle? Isn't that supposed to have a positive effect on LDL/HDL? or am I mistaken

Personally I ran raloxifene for awhile as a last ditch option to reduce pubertal gyno, it didn't work but I did get bloodwork done and my cholesterol #'s were sweet.

cholesterol: 128
HDL: 52
LDL: 66
ratio: 1.3
triglycerides: 51

Previously I've had bloodwork done for accutane and my total cholesterol was always around 160.

Not sure if nolva is as strong as raloxifene though so who knows...

 

[tattoopierced1]

You can get Red Yeast Rice at Walmart too. I saw a 160 count bottle of it for $8 the other day.

 

[Jeff]

Totally still available. NOW Foods sells it, and you can get it at 1fast. They had to change the label claims. The action was taken because it's the exact same thing as a prescription drug, lorastatin (I beleive), and it was being sold in health food stores as "Cholestin," and the pharmas complained. The fact is, though, it's natural and legal to sell under DSHEA.

I would like to try this protocol during my next M1T cycle...which keeps getting put fof the more I read! I just hate taking a ton of pills, b/c it makes it hard to assess which one is causing sides if you experience them, etc. But I could buy a few at-home Cholesterol tests, and give it a shot.

Brodus, tattoo

Thanks for the info, I was under the impression the the formula had changed and it was not the same product, I might give it a shot. In lue of the pills I went and bought a bag of red yeast rice itself from the oriental market, tastes better than brown rice. I've been taking policosinal for a couple of weeks, I will give it another month and then have my levels checked to see if there is any improvement.

 

[Brodus]

Well, actually the company that marketed "Cholestin" was forced to change the formula, but that's b/c it was marketed like a drug, and FDA said it was a drug. But the generic extract is untouchable...I mean, HOW YOU GONNA BAN RICE!!

 

[CDB]

Well, actually the company that marketed "Cholestin" was forced to change the formula, but that's b/c it was marketed like a drug, and FDA said it was a drug. But the generic extract is untouchable...I mean, HOW YOU GONNA BAN RICE!!

Trust me, they'd find a way.

This thread seriously interests me. I think we'd need a reason for the lowering of the HDL first before we could identify the best way to raise it. Or just go with trial and error.

 

[bioman]

Agreed, we need info as to whether these supps regulate HDl during hypo and hyper lipidemic conditions.

 

[lancelot]

my family has hyperlipidemia so it's hereditary. perfect diet, supplementation and exercise still keeps my dad and I in the 240-280 cholesterol range. it's been like this for me since i was 18, but my HDL is high so the overall ratio is still considered low risk. no family history of heart disease as well.

Anyhow, i put my dad and i on policosanol with no other changes in diet or exercise. 6 months later, both our blood test reveal a drop of about 50 with my cholesterol level now at 185 and his at 195. all i can say is policosanol works! I use the NoW brand policonsanol, but the best formula is the Now brand Dr balch's cholesterol support which has everything in it. But for now, just policosanol is fine with me until dps or mike starts to carry the dr balch's version.

Also, i 2X-3X dosages of policosanol when on cycle as policosanol lowers ldl and raises hdl which androgens fight to do the opposite.

 

[Brodus]

"on policosanol with no other changes in diet or exercise. 6 months later, both our blood test reveal a drop of about 50"

"Also, i 2X-3X dosages of policosanol when on cycle as policosanol lowers ldl and raises hdl which androgens fight to do the opposite."

This is very good data, indeed. I have read similar reports about Policosanol. I think it is essential in ameliorating the harms of M1T on cycle.

 

[ryansm]

Now we just need a few people to run m1t cycles, and run blood tests before, during, and after to see how effective it is. This could be really good news, and extremely helpful data if proven viable.

 

[B5150]

This is the NatureMade:INGREDIENTS

Ingredients: Plant sterols and stanols, Cellulose Gel, Gum Acacia, Magnesium Silicate, Croscarmellose Sodium, Silica Gel, Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose, Titanium Dioxide (artificial color), Magnesium Stearate, Polyethylene Glycol, Triethyl Citrate, Sodium Citrate.
NatureMade Dose:

This is Now Foods Ingredients:
Policosanol is a blend of fatty alcohols derived from natural plant waxes. NOW® Policosanol contains several long chain fatty alcohols (LCFA’s), including Triacontanol, Octacosanol and Hexacosanol.

And this is Now Food Dose:Supplement Facts:
Amount Per Serving:
Policosanol (Natural Fatty Alcohols from Vegetable Waxes) 10 mg â€

I am just curious, if those who have used either can answer a question or two. The NatureMade is 900mg and the Now Food is 10mg. Is there an issue with one being extract/concentrate (10mg...Now Food) and the other (900mg...NatureMade) being the total mg's of plant sterols/stanols, including the inactives. Sort of like the the E&Z of guggulesterones. Are they the same actives and is there a standardization (like the E&Z extract) for the effective actives. It kind of sounds like the NOW® Policosanol is a proprietary blend, no?

 

[Redspy]

From the studies I've seen (relating to reducing serum cholesterol) 1.5mg-3.0mg of plant sterols or stanols are recommended daily. A good summary of sterols/stanols research can be found here.

I'm not familiar with the Now Foods product so can't comment.

 

[ryansm]

I recently ordered some of the Now brands, and will be taking it as soon as I receive it. I have a scheduled appointment for blood test in app. 4 weeks, and by that time will see if it helps in raising my hdl. As I have stated before, my hdl is still low from the last time that I cycled m1t, and I am hoping that this can help.

 

[B5150]

I recently ordered some of the Now brands, and will be taking it as soon as I receive it. I have a scheduled appointment for blood test in app. 4 weeks, and by that time will see if it helps in raising my hdl. As I have stated before, my hdl is still low from the last time that I cycled m1t, and I am hoping that this can help.

Are you certain that the M1T lowered it or was it a pre-existant condition that you were unaware of. How long ago was your last cycle?

I had initially suggested to SS et al that eating lots of cholesterol while on M1T might help but now I'm thinking that this might be counterproductive or at least moot.

I was under the impression that certain EFA's like olive oil are productive at increasing HDL (good cholesterol). am I mistaken?

 

[lancelot]

I recently ordered some of the Now brands, and will be taking it as soon as I receive it. I have a scheduled appointment for blood test in app. 4 weeks, and by that time will see if it helps in raising my hdl. .

policosanol can raise hdl some, but much more effective at lowering LDL. you also need to be on it for at least 4-6 months to see good results.

 

[ryansm]

Are you certain that the M1T lowered it or was it a pre-existant condition that you were unaware of. How long ago was your last cycle?
I had tests ran before, and after. The before lipid profiles were much better than after as expected, however, I ran more test app. 4 weeks after finishing pct, and my nunmbers were still low.

 

[ryansm]

policosanol can raise hdl some, but much more effective at lowering LDL. you also need to be on it for at least 4-6 months to see good results.

Well I still think that it is worth running, thanx for the info.

 

[dg806]

I was under the impression that certain EFA's like olive oil are productive at increasing HDL (good cholesterol). am I mistaken?

Flax and olive oil are good. But I'm not sure how much it will naturally raise HDL levels. My HDL level is naturally low (35) and it doesn't seem to move much whatever I do. I take a dozen fish oil caps a day.

 

[boby-at]

it's probably really worth running although i doubt that there will be any improvement - i mean the tests show some effects after months of applications (or am i wrong?) and the m1t itself f*cks the levels up within days. I mean its seems to me like trying to lift a 10 t truck with a tablespoon

 

[Syr]

I'm not familiar with the Now Foods product so can't comment.

NOW i a good brand and its never underdosed.
I tried Saw Palmetto and now i'm going to buy their NAC product.

 

[Syr]

Agreed, we need info as to whether these supps regulate HDl during hypo and hyper lipidemic conditions.

I was googling fenugreek to find a good product on sale in europe, and i cam through this GREAT article, which lists all the stuff that helps lowering LDL. Theres nothing on how raising good cho, though.

http://www.ivillage.co.uk/health/comp/herb/articles/0,,181042_539091-1,00.html
(note it has 3 pages)

Enjoy the reading

 

[silverSurfer]

I've used NOW brand policosanol for a while and I'm quite pleased with it.
I've also used MRM ChoLesstat: http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/mrm/chol.html

 

[CEDeoudes59]

Any info on this one??

Good company...
http://www.anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22213