Fatty Liver: Could this be causing it? - AnabolicMinds.com

Fatty Liver: Could this be causing it?

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    Fatty Liver: Could this be causing it?


    Hey guys,
    went for a physical the other day and doc says I have elevated liver enzymes which is likely a fatty liver!

    I don't drink alcohol. I have taken 6-bromo a few times with DAA at nothing more than 75mg/day. That is the "hardest" supp I have taken.
    I eat 6 eggs every morning, 3 whole, 3 whites. Could that be the cause?
    I eat quite clean and am 5'8 216lbs at about 14% BF
    Only supps I take are whey, mono, fish oil, and BCAA's.

    Could that 6-Bromo have caused it?
    I do store most of my fat in my waist (visceral).

    Anyone ever have this before? ways to get rid of it? would cardio help? Do I need to start cutting?

    Thought you chemical guys would know best.

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    Please post your liver values.

    Take any NSAIDs like ibuprofen? Genetics maybe? Doubtful that 6-bromo or daa would have caused this.

    What's your cholesterol like? How old are you?
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    I was actually just reading about this, over the weekend. I don't know what to tell you, but I'll post later when I'm on my other computer (as it has the search history). I can't recall what lead me to reading about it (I think it was leptin and insulin resistence, though).
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    Weight lifting in and of itself can lead to elevate liver enzymes.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripped_one View Post
    Please post your liver values.

    Take any NSAIDs like ibuprofen? Genetics maybe? Doubtful that 6-bromo or daa would have caused this.

    What's your cholesterol like? How old are you?
    I am 22 and my cholesterol is fine. My doc just emailed me and said "your enzymes are slightly elevated, we will test again in 3 months." I think I am going to go in this week though to talk to him. Noone in my family has liver issues. Should I increase healthy fats? stop drinking milk? eat more whites instead of yolks? I am ****ting my pants now to be honest. I wanted to MAYBE cycle in my future when i'm older but if I am having problems now???

    Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast View Post
    I was actually just reading about this, over the weekend. I don't know what to tell you, but I'll post later when I'm on my other computer (as it has the search history). I can't recall what lead me to reading about it (I think it was leptin and insulin resistence, though).
    Thanks brother

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Weight lifting in and of itself can lead to elevate liver enzymes.
    How so? I have never heard that?
    Care to explain?


    Thanks guys!
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    If you haven't seen specific numbers and you've only been told that your values are slightly elevated, I wouldn't worry or stress over it at all. Until you see the labs and what the numbers are and get to analyze them yourself, don't lose any sleep over it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast View Post
    If you haven't seen specific numbers and you've only been told that your values are slightly elevated, I wouldn't worry or stress over it at all. Until you see the labs and what the numbers are and get to analyze them yourself, don't lose any sleep over it.
    Thanks brother

    I have an appt wednesday morning at 9.
    Unfortunately it will bother me very much until I found out, just because I like to think of my body as a well kept machine.

    thanks for all the help guys, I will update with values and take any other advice you guys have to offer.
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    thanks for that, but from what I caught, it says its elevated in men who do not exercise with weights on a regular basis. I do on the other hand, or did I not catch everything correctly?
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    slightly elevated is prob no big deal. any drug or chemical could potentialy cause this if u are sensitive to it. tylenol can cause this. but any way, u can not diagnose a fatty liver with a blood test. u would need imaging for this diagnosis. this condition is seen commonly in overweight people. all the contestants on the biggest loser just about have this diagnosis after their scans. its completely reversible as far as i know.
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    This shouldn't have any relevance here, but I wanted to post it just since I'd chimed in, earlier. This is the link I'd stumbled across over the weekend:

    http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/87/7/3019.full
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    Quote Originally Posted by rebelhead
    slightly elevated is prob no big deal. any drug or chemical could potentialy cause this if u are sensitive to it. tylenol can cause this. but any way, u can not diagnose a fatty liver with a blood test. u would need imaging for this diagnosis. this condition is seen commonly in overweight people. all the contestants on the biggest loser just about have this diagnosis after their scans. its completely reversible as far as i know.
    Yeah this is true. Your doc is probably surprised to see fatty liverish blood tests in someone so seemingly healthy and 14% body fat. NASH (non-alcoholic steatohepatitis) is on the rise in the US big time, and it has everything to do with obesity, type 2 diabetes and other features of the american way of life known as metabolic syndrome.

    Anyway, the diagnosis can be made with ultrasound to visualize the liver parenchyma, gallbladder and biliary tree. He/she might want to run a follow up blood test before taking this step. The pathology on biopsy is identical to alcoholic fatty liver disease, except that the patient does not use alcohol. In that way, its somewhat a clinical diagnosis based on patient's history.

    Chronically, NASH is an increasingly common cause of cirrhosis and HCC, but do not let this scare you. Im talking decades of unchecked fatty liver.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDiocre View Post
    Yeah this is true. Your doc is probably surprised to see fatty liverish blood tests in someone so seemingly healthy and 14% body fat. NASH (non-alcoholic steatohepatitis) is on the rise in the US big time, and it has everything to do with obesity, type 2 diabetes and other features of the american way of life known as metabolic syndrome.

    Anyway, the diagnosis can be made with ultrasound to visualize the liver parenchyma, gallbladder and biliary tree. He/she might want to run a follow up blood test before taking this step. The pathology on biopsy is identical to alcoholic fatty liver disease, except that the patient does not use alcohol. In that way, its somewhat a clinical diagnosis based on patient's history.

    Chronically, NASH is an increasingly common cause of cirrhosis and HCC, but do not let this scare you. Im talking decades of unchecked fatty liver.
    so your saying this is normal? is it bc my diet is full of Triglycerides and HFC's?
    Is it due to working out like the fellow above said?

    I know 14% isn't lean but I am putting on weight right now
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    Just got back from the Doc,

    He said normal AST levels are 40 but mine is only slightly elevated at 69.
    He said most doctors wouldn't have even told me about levels that were this slightly elevated.

    anyone else have similar numbers?
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewT
    Just got back from the Doc,

    He said normal AST levels are 40 but mine is only slightly elevated at 69.
    He said most doctors wouldn't have even told me about levels that were this slightly elevated.

    anyone else have similar numbers?
    That's almost double
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    so these levels are high, rather than slightly elevated?
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewT
    so these levels are high, rather than slightly elevated?
    Personally I would be a tad concerned. 40 is theax so it should be at 40 or below yours are 70 which is almost double.

    I'll let a more experienced member chime in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    Personally I would be a tad concerned. 40 is theax so it should be at 40 or below yours are 70 which is almost double.

    I'll let a more experienced member chime in.
    are you sure 40 is "the max"? I was under the impression 40 is just average
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewT

    are you sure 40 is "the max"? I was under the impression 40 is just average
    I may be wrong google alt ast values.
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewT View Post
    Just got back from the Doc,

    He said normal AST levels are 40 but mine is only slightly elevated at 69.
    He said most doctors wouldn't have even told me about levels that were this slightly elevated.

    anyone else have similar numbers?
    While an AST helps, theres an array of other LFTs and a lipid panel that would be helpful if youre searching for answers on the internet (beware).

    An AST:ALT ratio of 2:1 is notorious for alcohol induced liver damage. The mechanism for this ratio is unknown as far as I know, but it always comes up on board exams.

    As for an AST of 69, that would catch my attention, but I can see why your doctor said what he did.... Particularly if all of your other lab values were within normal, or if subsequent labs showed a normal AST.

    Alkaline phosphatase is another LFT that can tell you whether or not liver dysfunction is in part or completely due to cholestasis (the gallbladder is not emptying into the duodenum, which can lead to buildup and liver issues). As T-bone can vouch, AAS can cause liver damage via cholestasis or via direct damage (similar to the way tylenol damages the liver).

    If AlkPhos is normal, theres a few other things that can be looked at. Bilirubin is one of the most important tests and can sometimes better determine the cause. If direct vs. indirect bilirubin was ordered, as should be in a hepatic function panel, direct hyperbilirubinemia generally leans towards a cholestatic picture, while indirect implies direct liver damage (indirect=unconjugated; as in the liver is damaged to the point that it cannot keep up with its normal function of conjugating bilirubin). I say generally because theres a multitude of other conditions that can cause elevations of either direct or indirect bili. They are commonly both elevated in actual pratice.

    This is just an idea of the general approach to LFTs as a clinician. I'd urge you to stick with contacting your doctor on this, even though it may seem easier to seek out all of the answers on your own. If you get a copy of your complete panel I could speculate on it, but again, your physician is the only one who has your complete history and has seen you in person and performed physical exams on you.
    Last edited by MDiocre; 12-07-2011 at 10:10 PM. Reason: spelling
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    Normal Lab Values:

    http://www.mtworld[DOTCOM]/tools_resources/lab_values.html
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    Thanks for all your help guys.
    Obviously a physician is who I need to listen to. Just wanted to hear your guys opinions so I don't **** my pants.

    I stopped taking all my supps except for my multi. On other forums I was reading that creatine can upset the liver. I don't see how protein or BCAA's can, and I actually read a study saying creatine may help liver disease. But I guess I should eliminate variables. He says he wants to recheck my levels in 3 months and then do an ultrasound if they are still high. I am wondering if 3 months is too long? I don't want it to get worse. My diet is now going to be 1000% clean. He told me not to lose any sleep over this but its really bothering me...I like to think of my body as a finely tuned machine!
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    3 months is probably a standard time to wait between tests. This is the same if you have a higher than normal reading for a cholesterol test or even a blood pressure test.

    The liver tests that I have done have a recommended value between 20 and 60 for a heathy liver so 40 would be right in the middle, which is presumably where the 'normal' value came from. 69 is slightly higher than normal but if the doctor is willing to wait 3 months for another test then it won't be dangerously high and certainly nothing that is life threatening. The last reading I had was 62 and this was for a medical 1 year ago and the doctor didn't bat an eyelid or request a follow-up test. I'm still around 1 year later (and I drink a moderate amount of alcohol) so a level of 69 is nothing to worry about in the near future.

    The liver is also able to 'repair itself' so just because the level is slightly high at the moment doesn't mean that it's going to be that way for the rest of your life.

    If want to make sure that any exercise you are doing isn't affecting the liver value (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2291230/) then don't do any training for 7-10 days before the next test.

    Chances are if the values are still over 60 for the next test then the doctor will look into more tests to see what the cause of this is especially as you don't drink alcohol.
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    Did you take anything like PHs?
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    Quote Originally Posted by warsteiner View Post
    3 months is probably a standard time to wait between tests. This is the same if you have a higher than normal reading for a cholesterol test or even a blood pressure test.

    The liver tests that I have done have a recommended value between 20 and 60 for a heathy liver so 40 would be right in the middle, which is presumably where the 'normal' value came from. 69 is slightly higher than normal but if the doctor is willing to wait 3 months for another test then it won't be dangerously high and certainly nothing that is life threatening. The last reading I had was 62 and this was for a medical 1 year ago and the doctor didn't bat an eyelid or request a follow-up test. I'm still around 1 year later (and I drink a moderate amount of alcohol) so a level of 69 is nothing to worry about in the near future.

    The liver is also able to 'repair itself' so just because the level is slightly high at the moment doesn't mean that it's going to be that way for the rest of your life.

    If want to make sure that any exercise you are doing isn't affecting the liver value (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2291230/) then don't do any training for 7-10 days before the next test.

    Chances are if the values are still over 60 for the next test then the doctor will look into more tests to see what the cause of this is especially as you don't drink alcohol.
    Thanks for that

    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    Did you take anything like PHs?
    Never man. I would have told my Doc if I did, or you guys. But I haven't. Like I said I took 6-bromo once a long time ago and thats about the harshest thing I have put into myself.
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    I have been doing blood tests quite often trying to get my estro n test in check. One test I had liver enzymes checked n they came back 427 ast n 190 alt. i had taken 2 bcaa drinks in the AM before tests. While my dr wanted me to retest in 24hrs he was not overly concerned because I was feeling good. He just asked me to stay off all supps. 2nd test 24hrs later came back around 180 n 95. 2 weeks later tested again, off supps and they r back within range. Both of my drs, one a general practitioner, the other a psychiatrist, who specializes in hormone imbalance, claim bcaa's n protein drinks will raise liver enzymes. N if ur taking too much they can skyrocket like mine did. I am back on basic supps, but they told me to limit protein drinks to 3 a day and one bcaa drink. Or 2 n 2. But spaced through out the day. The real reason I posted all this was so you do not stress out so much. I flipped and thought all kinds of things before my 2nd test but the drs were not that concerned, mainly because the entire time these tests were going on I felt good. I think people put way too much stress on themselves when they hear elevated liver enzymes. I did a lot of research and many are only 30 or 40 points above normal and are flipping out. Just relax, clean your body out and retest. My drs claimed the only time I should worry about these tests is if I start feeling sick. Good luck!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Project Hex
    I have been doing blood tests quite often trying to get my estro n test in check. One test I had liver enzymes checked n they came back 427 ast n 190 alt. i had taken 2 bcaa drinks in the AM before tests. While my dr wanted me to retest in 24hrs he was not overly concerned because I was feeling good. He just asked me to stay off all supps. 2nd test 24hrs later came back around 180 n 95. 2 weeks later tested again, off supps and they r back within range. Both of my drs, one a general practitioner, the other a psychiatrist, who specializes in hormone imbalance, claim bcaa's n protein drinks will raise liver enzymes. N if ur taking too much they can skyrocket like mine did. I am back on basic supps, but they told me to limit protein drinks to 3 a day and one bcaa drink. Or 2 n 2. But spaced through out the day. The real reason I posted all this was so you do not stress out so much. I flipped and thought all kinds of things before my 2nd test but the drs were not that concerned, mainly because the entire time these tests were going on I felt good. I think people put way too much stress on themselves when they hear elevated liver enzymes. I did a lot of research and many are only 30 or 40 points above normal and are flipping out. Just relax, clean your body out and retest. My drs claimed the only time I should worry about these tests is if I start feeling sick. Good luck!
    Does that mean the proteins and BCAA were harming your liver?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Project Hex View Post
    I have been doing blood tests quite often trying to get my estro n test in check. One test I had liver enzymes checked n they came back 427 ast n 190 alt. i had taken 2 bcaa drinks in the AM before tests. While my dr wanted me to retest in 24hrs he was not overly concerned because I was feeling good. He just asked me to stay off all supps. 2nd test 24hrs later came back around 180 n 95. 2 weeks later tested again, off supps and they r back within range. Both of my drs, one a general practitioner, the other a psychiatrist, who specializes in hormone imbalance, claim bcaa's n protein drinks will raise liver enzymes. N if ur taking too much they can skyrocket like mine did. I am back on basic supps, but they told me to limit protein drinks to 3 a day and one bcaa drink. Or 2 n 2. But spaced through out the day. The real reason I posted all this was so you do not stress out so much. I flipped and thought all kinds of things before my 2nd test but the drs were not that concerned, mainly because the entire time these tests were going on I felt good. I think people put way too much stress on themselves when they hear elevated liver enzymes. I did a lot of research and many are only 30 or 40 points above normal and are flipping out. Just relax, clean your body out and retest. My drs claimed the only time I should worry about these tests is if I start feeling sick. Good luck!
    I really don't want to stop using my supps man! lol
    I only drink 2-3 50g whey isolate shakes a day. 5g of mono on workout days only. And 2 scoops of recoverpro that I sip throughout the day.

    If the supps just elevate the enzymes but the liver is not fatty, then what exactly is the liver doing/undergoing?

    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    Does that mean the proteins and BCAA were harming your liver?
    just what I was gonna ask?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Project Hex View Post
    I have been doing blood tests quite often trying to get my estro n test in check. One test I had liver enzymes checked n they came back 427 ast n 190 alt. i had taken 2 bcaa drinks in the AM before tests. While my dr wanted me to retest in 24hrs he was not overly concerned because I was feeling good. He just asked me to stay off all supps. 2nd test 24hrs later came back around 180 n 95. 2 weeks later tested again, off supps and they r back within range. Both of my drs, one a general practitioner, the other a psychiatrist, who specializes in hormone imbalance, claim bcaa's n protein drinks will raise liver enzymes. N if ur taking too much they can skyrocket like mine did. I am back on basic supps, but they told me to limit protein drinks to 3 a day and one bcaa drink. Or 2 n 2. But spaced through out the day. The real reason I posted all this was so you do not stress out so much. I flipped and thought all kinds of things before my 2nd test but the drs were not that concerned, mainly because the entire time these tests were going on I felt good. I think people put way too much stress on themselves when they hear elevated liver enzymes. I did a lot of research and many are only 30 or 40 points above normal and are flipping out. Just relax, clean your body out and retest. My drs claimed the only time I should worry about these tests is if I start feeling sick. Good luck!
    I see this was your first post.

    Did the drs tell you why these products elevate liver enzymes? are they hard on the liver?
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    "ELEVATED LIVER ENZYMES

    What are elevated liver enzymes?

    Liver enzymes are proteins made by the liver that are measured in the blood, with a blood draw. Liver enzymes tell us how well your liver is functioning.
    Your liver is an organ in your body that helps to:
    Process drugs and toxins
    Eliminate waste products and fats from your body
    Store and regulate blood sugar levels
    There are many different enzymes in the body that have different tasks. Your doctor or healthcare provider may order a liver (hepatic) function panel, to see if there is damage to any one area of your liver. These are the proteins (or enzymes) that are measured:
    Alkaline phosphatase (ALP, AP, or Alk Phos)
    Alanine aminotransferase (ALT), formerly known as serum glutamic pyruvic transaminase (SGPT)
    Aspartate aminotransferase (AST), formerly known as serum glutamic oxaloacetic transaminase (SGOT)
    Lactate dehydrogenase (LDH)
    Liver Enzymes (normal values)*
    Alkaline Phosphatase (ALP) 20-120 U/L
    ALT 5-50 U/L
    AST 7-40 U/L
    Lactate Dehydrogenase (LDH, LD) 100-220 U/L
    *normal values may vary from laboratory to laboratory
    Other tests of liver function include:
    Bilirubin level - indicates bile production and metabolism. Normal bilirubin levels are 0.2 to 1.2 mg/dL of blood. If chemotherapy has caused liver damage or dysfunction, you may notice a yellowing of the skin, called jaundice or icterus, when the bilirubin level reaches 3.0 mg/dL.
    Bleeding times - such as Prothombin time (PT) - may be prolonged if there is liver damage. This means it may take longer for your blood to form a blood clot, or for you to stop bleeding if you are injured.
    Each of these enzymes or proteins, if elevated, will tell your doctor if there is a problem with a certain area of your liver. It will also suggest if there is a problem elsewhere in the blood.
    Your liver enzymes may be elevated if:
    You have an infection, blockage or damage to your liver.
    There may be a blockage to the liver, gall bladder or the common bile duct, such as gallstones, tumor, or infection.
    Certain drugs or medications may have damaged your liver. These may include alcohol, Tylenol®, certain types of chemotherapy, and medications to treat high blood cholesterol levels, such as atorvastatin (Lipitor®), or simvastatin (Zocor®). Sometimes liver enzyme elevations may be temporary.
    Your liver enzymes may be elevated, even if there is no damage to the liver at all. For example, ALP is made by the bones and the liver. Your blood ALP levels may be elevated due to damaged the bones, not a damaged liver.
    ALT, AST levels may be elevated if there is damage to the heart."
    Above taken from chemocare

    "When a high dietary protein intake is consumed, there is an increase in urea excretion, which suggests that amino acid oxidation is increased.[15] High levels of protein intake increase the activity of branched-chain ketoacid dehydrogenase.[15] As a result, oxidation is facilitated, and the amino group of the amino acid is excreted to the liver.[15] This process suggests that excess protein consumption results in protein oxidation and that the protein is excreted.[15] The body is unable to store excess protein.[15][20] Protein is digested into amino acids, which enter the bloodstream. Excess amino acids are converted to other usable molecules by the liver in a process called deamination. Deamination converts nitrogen from the amino acid into ammonia, which is converted by the liver into urea in the urea cycle. Excretion of urea is performed by the kidneys. These organs can normally cope with any extra workload, but, if a kidney disease occurs, a decrease in protein will often be prescribed.[21] Furthermore, as noted, protein provides the body with 4 calories per gram, and when there is excess protein intake, the body will utilize as much of it for energy as possible.[2] After that stage, the body will produce fat from the excess protein, turning it into fat cells.[2] On the other hand, if people do not eat enough calories, body protein and protein from the food will be utilized for energy.[2] This is not ideal as the main function of protein is to maintain Muscle Mass.[2] Finally, when food protein intake is periodically high or low, the body tries to keep protein levels at an equilibrium by using the "labile protein reserve", which serves as a short-term protein store to be used for emergencies or daily variations in protein intake.[3] However, that reserve is not utilized as longer-term storage for future needs.[3]

    Many researchers have also found that excessive intake of protein increases calcium excretion in urine.[3] It has been thought that this occurs to maintain the pH imbalance from the oxidation of sulfur amino acids.[3] Also, it is inconclusive whether bone resorption contributes to bone loss and osteoporosis.[3] However, it is also found that a regular intake of calcium would be able to stabilize this loss.[3]

    Another issue arising from overconsumption of protein is a higher risk of kidney stone formation from calcium in the renal circulatory system.[3] It has been found that high animal protein intake in healthy individuals increases the probability of forming kidney stones by 250 percent.[3]"

    Above taken from Wikepedia.

    My drs told me the do not think there was any permanent damage done to my liver however I need to lower my protein n bcaa intake. As well as my omega 3 intake. I was on 6-8 grams a day and I needed to cut that in half. This was all on top of my high protein intake of chicken, steak, eggs and fish. If anyone can elaborate on the above quotations please do... Hopefully what I have said will help someone.
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    awesome info you have provided there my friend.

    I greatly appreciate it.

    I guess from what it sounds like everyone's body has a different tolerance to high protein intake/levels. I wonder if many bodybuilders who take in high protein (and don't have a liver issue from improper AAS use) have elevated liver enzymes and just don't know it.??
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