Tren questions

[jamesm11]

Ok, I'm just asking a question and don't plan on running this until another year or so.

Why do people say tren shouldnt be taken for beginners?

If its the sides, what are they? Cause from what I've read it doesn't seem terrible .

I'd run this with 600mg test e

 

[jamesm11]

I know night sweats, libido issues, but that's all I've really heard.

Is it really that severe! Cause the effects seem incredible

 

[GLHF]

my experiece at 75mg 3x week 3.5weeks

insane body transformation, i would say 3weeks on this (at a moderate-lose dose) is = 12-15weeks natty training + near perfect diet.

the bad: sometimes my heart would start pounding, and i would feel very paranoid in a way, cant explain it. the sweating was okay, i actually liked that cuz i never sweat. dreams were fukd up but entertaining. my libido was wierd. i still had sex wit a gf like once a week, i just wasnt really interested in her. i prob performed the best in my life while on tren with a girl i just met walking out the gym. so the libido could be mental to some degree. acne wasn't bad, but i was tanning 2-3x week and it was summer + really clean diet.

but no doubt best compound by far, the only thing that comes close is 1g of test for me lol.

 

[jamesm11]

Thanks, was it tren a or e, and no cough?

I'd be worried about libido cause my gf wants to go 2-3 times a night (not complaining) but I'd be worried

 

[7ten11]

Night sweats, weird dreams, argumentative, libido issues & bad acne.

Although I have found, adding caber at 1mg 3 x per week helps with the libido
Changes your body composition something special though

 

[DetroitHammer]

I'm not sure how Tren affects the libido, but I understand that Trenbolone causes gene expression with the AR as least as potent as DHT without converting to DHT. So using Caber should not help with Tren related DHT, since it does not convert to DHT or increase prolactin. I know when I run Tren my libido is affected, but seems to be easily overcome. The libido is so much a state of mind that it's hard sometimes to nail the root cause of ED or just lack of interest. If you give 10 guys a pill to help their libido and 10 guys a pill that will kill their libido, and the pill is the same sugar pill, by power of suggestion you'll probably find 10 guys with ED and 10 guys humping every girl they can. I think Tren has a somewhat similar effect. If taking Caber helps, then it may be limiting the DHT created by test, or it may just be the power of the mind working in your favor.

The biggest problem I have on Tren is stamina. I get winded just thinking about walking to the car. The other sides, for me, are hardly worth mentioning. But the dreams, they are weird, aren't they?

Night sweats, weird dreams, argumentative, libido issues & bad acne.

Although I have found, adding caber at 1mg 3 x per week helps with the libido
Changes your body composition something special though

 

[7ten11]

I'm not sure how Tren affects the libido, but I understand that Trenbolone causes gene expression with the AR as least as potent as DHT without converting to DHT. So using Caber should not help with Tren related DHT, since it does not convert to DHT or increase prolactin. I know when I run Tren my libido is affected, but seems to be easily overcome. The libido is so much a state of mind that it's hard sometimes to nail the root cause of ED or just lack of interest. If you give 10 guys a pill to help their libido and 10 guys a pill that will kill their libido, and the pill is the same sugar pill, by power of suggestion you'll probably find 10 guys with ED and 10 guys humping every girl they can. I think Tren has a somewhat similar effect. If taking Caber helps, then it may be limiting the DHT created by test, or it may just be the power of the mind working in your favor.

The biggest problem I have on Tren is stamina. I get winded just thinking about walking to the car. The other sides, for me, are hardly worth mentioning. But the dreams, they are weird, aren't they?

So what would you think would be a suitable compound to use alongside tren to help overcome the libido problem?
Or deca dick as its so commonly called?

 

[DetroitHammer]

I wish I knew the answer, but if that's you in your avatar, then it doesn't look to me like you need any tren help; you're massive.

The question is really puzzling because some guys will say that while on Tren, they screw like a rabbit, while others say they are basically shut down. Typically, an excess of estrogen will give you libido issues. I know that with Deca, it will cause an increase in circulating E2 without stimulating the action of the enzyme aromatasehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromatase, which converts androgens into estrogens. That's why your AI's and SERMs are ineffective in stopping Deca related E2. Although you'd think an AI would help, but it doesn't. I really wish I knew the answer, but I'm just trying to understand the problem right now, and this kind of discussion is fascinating.

I don't want to tell you what to do, but if it we me, I'd get a blood profile done in the middle of your Tren cycle, when you're experiencing libido issues and study the results. Check your thyroid, E2, DHT, etc to see what's out of normal, along with your serum test. You may find, to your surprise, that your estrogen is sky-high.

So what would you think would be a suitable compound to use alongside tren to help overcome the libido problem?
Or deca dick as its so commonly called?

 

[7ten11]

Yes bro, I agree. That's the only way I'll find out.

Just that u read everywhere & everyone has conflicting views on AIs, PCT, prolactin control & E2 control.
Just trying to learn more.
In all honesty I wouldn't run any cycle without AI, prolactin control or hcg.
But that's just me.

Sorry to hijack your thread OP, but it is somewhat related.

BTW, yes it is me in my AVI, but then I've been training on & off since 18 & am now 40, you'd think I would have put on some size lol
I only started using at 36 years old because I found my natty levels declining.
I've only used test only once, test/deca once & test/tren once.

I'm actually a moderator in an Australian BB forum but like joining & reading other worldwide forums to learn as much as possible.

 

[jamesm11]

No worries about hijacking. I'm interested in everyone's experience.

I'm thinking of running test-e for 12-14 weeks then tren later, it just seems so enticing due to its recomposition effects, they seem unlike anything else

 

[GLHF]

would using cialis or viagra help with tren libido issues?

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

would using cialis or viagra help with tren libido issues?

I think it would depend on whether or not the loss of libido also gave you ED. For instance some compounds will give me loss of interest in sex completely, but I can still perform fine when needed.

 

[jamesm11]

Agreed. Libido is mental as well as physical. Those drugs only promote more blood flow to your penis, they don't stimulate it in your brain

 

[GeekPoop]

first time i used it, i was sexing like 2-3x a day for the cycle length. second time i used it, i could of cared less for sex. same dose / duration / ancillaries / labs.

people cant handle the sides, theyre not that bad. cant have you cake and eat it too.

 

[jamesm11]

That what it seems like. You want the strongest you have to deal with the worst sides. It's give and take. Similar to SD or M1T with PHs (though gear is a lot stronger, I'm using the analogy)

 

[7ten11]

I don't think anyone is debating the magnitude of the sides nor the mental capacity to deal with them.

I think the question was more to the fact of what can be done to avoid them or more realistically somewhat control the seriousness of them.
I too think the sides become worse once it's on your head.

 

[jamesm11]

is there anything else than will give comparable cutting as tren without the sides? primo/masteron stacked or what?

 

[7ten11]

is there anything else than will give comparable cutting as tren without the sides? primo/masteron stacked or what?

Maybe a masterone/stanna/test stack but really, nothing like tren

 

[jamesm11]

That's why it's oh so tempting. I'm planning on a January cycle. But it's my first time with inject, might just stick with 500mg test e and winny

 

[heckler7]

Tren A shuts some guys down forever, I hear people all the time saying they cycled tren last year and never got their sex drive back. not to mention blood pressure, lipid values and vomiting blood. You need to know how to dose it and how to control sides. It's not for beginers. If you want to dance with the devil you may get burned if he steps on your feet. I got some tren e I'm saving for a recomp in spring. Its winter you should be looking at a basic bulk cycle test dbol.

 

[GeekPoop]

winstrol is like magic for me. IME it works better than tren for cutting. a cycle of prop and winstrol would be good, maybe add in clen or eca. pretty cheap and should give good results

 

[jamesm11]

So like 75mg test p ED
50mg winny ED

 

[DetroitHammer]

Maybe a masterone/stanna/test stack but really, nothing like tren

Totally agree....

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

The guys that I have talked to swear by ED tren injects to lessen sides. Regardless of dose. They say it's pinning ED instead of EOD and keeping those levels stable no matter how high or low you dose that is going to help with sides. Take that for what it's worth...

 

[7ten11]

The guys that I have talked to swear by ED tren injects to lessen sides. Regardless of dose. They say it's pinning ED instead of EOD and keeping those levels stable no matter how high or low you dose that is going to help with sides. Take that for what it's worth...

Or use tren enanthate with mast for less bloat

 

[Big boy D]

What do you need for ancillary products do you néed for tren e?

 

[7ten11]

What do you need for ancillary products do you néed for tren e?

Pretty much similar to deca as it being a 19nor compound. You'll need a prolactin control & because u have to run test you'll need an AI as well.
So maybe a caber/dostinex or bromo, plus an AI like adex, aromasin or even proviron.
I'd still run hcg at 250iu twice a week to mimic the bodies natural production to keep your ball plump & run it all up into pct.
Then the normal pct of clomid/Nolva protocol

 

[Big boy D]

Run the hcg the hole cycle?

 

[7ten11]

Run the hcg the hole cycle?

Yep.
Get yourself a 5000iu hcg mix.
Get yourself some bacteriostatic water.
Get yourself a clean sterile vial.
Add 9ml bac water to vial, break both liquid & powder amps of hcg. Mix them together in syringe as instructed on hcg documents.
Add that 1ml hcg mix to the 9ml bac water in the clean vial.
That vial is to be kept in the fridge & will last you 10 weeks. So u may need to make another mix once this finishes.
You take 1/2 a ml twice a week, that will give u 250iu each shot, 500iu per week mixed into to shots.

This is some what the closest way to mimic the bodies natural lh stimulation to the testies to keep them full & big, it won't cure the complete shut down, but will help it.
What it will do is help when it comes time for pct therapy with your clomid/Nolva for a quicker recovery, hence better chance of keeping gains.
Because the clomid & Nolva don't have to stimulate testicle growth it can concentrate in sparking your natural test production, therefore having room for it to develop allowing less time to complete the recovery. Result, keep more gains, quicker recovery, etc.

Most guys I know now run hcg this way from week 1 of their cycle all the way into the second week of pct & some even longer. All report quicker recovery & test levels back to normal via blood tests within a month.

 

[7ten11]

Just to add, when using high dosage hcg in one or two shots during pct can damage the receptors and render itself useless as, the trigger can only handle so much, so longer, more frequent, lower dosages perform better for what we need

 

[heckler7]

or midway thru to end of pct

 

[7ten11]

or midway thru to end of pct

Yes, that's a good idea too, cause by the time your longer esters kick in your testies are still big enough, so maybe start at week 5 roughly, till end of pct

 

[Big boy D]

Thanks. Off to work. Hit u up later bro!

 

[DetroitHammer]

The guys that I have talked to swear by ED tren injects to lessen sides. Regardless of dose. They say it's pinning ED instead of EOD and keeping those levels stable no matter how high or low you dose that is going to help with sides. Take that for what it's worth...

If you're talking about Tren A, I agree that ED injections give you the best results, but the sides will not be reduced. As long as your test levels are are stable, you're ok. I'd be curious as to what sides they say are reduced by daily injections. On my most aggressive Tren cycle, I injected 500mgs Tren E (250mgs 2xw); Tren A EOD and Tren suspension ED, not to mention test. That was well over a gram of tren a week. My sides were the most severe and my strength did not increase that much. I found that Tren A, ED is the best for gains, and Tren E, 500mgs per week is the best as far as sides go.

 

[icon0561]

Tren has been the best thing that Ive run and sides aren't really that much to complain about. For me its night sweats, high BP (not danger high, but higher than normal), bad cardio performance. Tren/prop cycles for me are where its at. Libido is always through the roof, lots of strength, alpha male mentality but never any issues with aggression. I like to pin ED and have actually preferred to run it 10wks. Ive never put on a lot of weight (nothing like test E/EQ cycles) with the cycles Ive run but the recomp properties are amazing and the gains have always been very solid.

 

[Big boy D]

I have a question.... What is tren a,Ed ?

 

[J Jack3d]

[HR][/HR]To elaborate on op's question. How much more effective is Tren Vs Test? I am talking the whole effect including harshness. Most boards concede that tren is a "harsh" "do not try" "at your own risk' type of drug. They say you can't get your dick up, you will ruin your endocrine system and hpta for life bla blah blah. How much worse in terms of shutdown and recovery can it be in comparison of test or other AAS??
I mean test will shut you down just as tren will. So if tren gives better results why not just use it too, they all will shut you down?

 

[Big boy D]

Were there is a will, there's a way. Never say never. Nike bought the best one- just do it. Ever look at the pro's and cons to everything that someone experienced and someone ells did a report on it. It's like getting half the story. I try it and call it like I see it after. A weight could fall on my junk tomorrow or how about this one... Some chick could bite it off tomorrow! Hell maybe even tonight if I have my way!!! Hahahahaha

 

[jamesm11]

Or be smart, do research, start slow and work your way up.

If hundreds of people agree that tren is too strong for beginners and very dangerous, guess what? It's probably right. Saying they both shut you down is like saying beer and everclear are the same because they both have alcohol and eventually get the same result.

 

[7ten11]

I have a question.... What is tren a,Ed ?

Tren acetate every day injection

 

[Big boy D]

Ok... You can do that also. The point that I'm getting at is you need to move forward in life. Every day counts.

 

[BBB]

Tren A shuts some guys down forever, I hear people all the time saying they cycled tren last year and never got their sex drive back. not to mention blood pressure, lipid values and vomiting blood. You need to know how to dose it and how to control sides. It's not for beginers. If you want to dance with the devil you may get burned if he steps on your feet. I got some tren e I'm saving for a recomp in spring. Its winter you should be looking at a basic bulk cycle test dbol.

Show me some evidence of "forever shutdown".

 

[DetroitHammer]

Show me some evidence of "forever shutdown".

Not that I necessarily agree that tren can shut you down forever, but there's a rather well known TRT doctor here, Dr Crisel, who has treated many athletes and recreational AAS users over 20 years. He's considered somewhat of an expert on AAS and to the best of my knowledge, set the standard for HCG at 250iu the day before you inject during cycle, or during TRT. Anyway, I talked with him at length one day and the majority of his patients are shut down due to AAS usage. He has a program he calls "re-start" which is designed to help young guys recover from AAS suppression. I do believe an individual can suppress his own natural production of test to the point of atrophy, and let's face it, once you're shut down, your mind panics and makes it worse. So prolonged shut down is possible, and can be attributed to any AAS, not just tren.

 

[BBB]

Not that I necessarily agree that tren can shut you down forever, but there's a rather well known TRT doctor here, Dr Crisel, who has treated many athletes and recreational AAS users over 20 years. He's considered somewhat of an expert on AAS and to the best of my knowledge, set the standard for HCG at 250iu the day before you inject during cycle, or during TRT. Anyway, I talked with him at length one day and the majority of his patients are shut down due to AAS usage. He has a program he calls "re-start" which is designed to help young guys recover from AAS suppression. I do believe an individual can suppress his own natural production of test to the point of atrophy, and let's face it, once you're shut down, your mind panics and makes it worse. So prolonged shut down is possible, and can be attributed to any AAS, not just tren.

Agreed. There are reports on Ergo-Log of people taking up to 22 weeks (naturally) to recover from AAS suppression.

 

[Big boy D]

When you say forever shut down do you mean your sperm or getting it up??

 

[7ten11]

When you say forever shut down do you mean your sperm or getting it up??

I think they mean your natural test production in your balls bro. Which in turn can cause sperm problems.

When taking synthetic test, your body stops making it as there is enough in the system.
How ever, if u were using hcg & did a good pct, you'd tend to spark back to normal.

When taking 19nor compounds such as deca/tren, they tend to act upon your natural production differently as they attack another axis of testosterone conversion, progesterone & prolactin build up.
In turn it shuts u down a different way, and tends to stay in your system longer. Deca has been known to still show 6 months after last shot.
Then as most would, you add test to your cycle, so bam, your shut down two ways & need other drugs to help you through.
So, always use hcg during cycle or at least from half way through to keep balls plump, use an AI while on test & use either caber/dostinex or bromo to try to combat prolactin then use the clomid Nolva as pct again with some hcg.

So yes, adding tren or deca will shut u down harder & longer in my opinion

 

[Big boy D]

So deca not that great? What is the Al. I need to get the water for my hcg. sry tires man but wanted to say hi.

 

[BBB]

I have used Deca in the past (doctor approved) for a shoulder problem and I recovered nicely.

 

[Big boy D]

What happen? Never Hurd of it prescribed.

 

[DetroitHammer]

I have used Deca in the past (doctor approved) for a shoulder problem and I recovered nicely.

That had to be a while ago because it's no longer approved for prescription now... When you say you recovered nicely, does that mean that you experienced the sides and recovered, or that you never really experienced any sides? And how much did he prescribe? Was it alone or with test?