Mdien Info

[T-Bone]

This is still very little information on this product?. All I have seen are reviews and the desciption of the product which is not very descriptive. Does it have to be converted?. It does not mention this anywhere. In the description it does mention it is a relative to 19-nor. I believe 19-nor products are just crap...Well except for the cyps of course. Maybe I just haven't used them for a long enough period. I read that nandrolone is really a "slow builder" so it takes take for the gains to come. So how does this product differ from 4OHN?. I have heard 4OHN compared to DECA-Durabolin(nandrolone deconate). Of course though, M4OHN isn't going to have the ester, so your blood levels won't be as high. Now the recommended dosage for DECA is 2mg per pound of bodyweight weekly.Of course you have got to figure in the weight of the ester. You can see by my post that this would lead me to ask a lot of questions...If these ph/ps products don't measure up to the steriods they are "related" to, please stop comparing them and causing confusion!. I understand what nandrolone is and how it is used, and deca is nandrolone with the decanoate ester attached..

 

[ryansm]

Actually I would say the consumers are comparing them to other steroids. I read that m-dien does not convert, and I have used it at only 5 mgs a day spread out through five doses with marginal gains.

 

[supersoldier]

Dosed around 15-20mg it's really effective. :thumbsup:

 

[PumpingBricks70]

Dosed around 15-20mg it's really effective. :thumbsup:

Someone ought to come out with higher dosed caps or tabs.

 

[T-Bone]

So whats the difference exactly between Mdien and M4OHN?. I don't really understand why people compare the M4OHN to deca, since "deca" refers to the ester?. Correct?

 

[Lich]

When they say deca, they are referring to the whole steroid in general, deca-durabolin, and the gains sides ect they get from it.

 

[t_dot_porkchop]

Dosed around 15-20mg it's really effective. :thumbsup:

im planning an mdien/1-test body re-comp shortly. i know im gonna feel like crap, but its only for 6 weeks. im gonna make a solution of mdien (i was lucky to get a gram of powder!) at 5mg/ml.

what did you get at 15-20mg?

 

[tribaltek]

How much 1-test will you be using? If not too high, you probably won't feel too bad without 4-AD.

 

[T-Bone]

Why would he feel bad without 4ad?

 

[CDB]

Why would he feel bad without 4ad?

One of the side effects of moderate to high doses of 1 testosterone is lethargy, which can go from mild to extreme.

 

[T-Bone]

Yes I realize that. Maybe I should have been more clear in my post. I have heard it gets really bad from M1T but haven't really heard of anyone complaining of lethargy for 1-Test. I don't really think its an issue of with 1-test.

 

[ryansm]

Actually it is bad for either 1-test or m1t. In fact some people get lethargic on 1-ad.

 

[jas123]

You may want to be careful stacking as mdien can cause progesterone levels to rise. I think 2 people reported gyno from a mdien and m4ohn stack. Of course, 1-test and mdien shouldn't cause a problem.

 

[CDB]

Yes I realize that. Maybe I should have been more clear in my post. I have heard it gets really bad from M1T but haven't really heard of anyone complaining of lethargy for 1-Test. I don't really think its an issue of with 1-test.

It can be bad for either. As the other guy said, even 1AD is enough to kick some people's asses. I for one have done a couple 1AD cycles, the last one I cut short because for some reason the lethargy hit me like a ton of bricks, and I was using 4AD at the time too. I've read a few posts here that point to lowered blood sugar as a possible cause for this lethargy.

 

[supersoldier]

im planning an mdien/1-test body re-comp shortly. i know im gonna feel like crap, but its only for 6 weeks. im gonna make a solution of mdien (i was lucky to get a gram of powder!) at 5mg/ml.

what did you get at 15-20mg?

With 1-test and enough M-Dien (20mg-ish) you will get WICKED pumps, decent strength gains, and definite body recomp, losing fat while gaining muscle. Not completely dry, like with M5AA or such, but very minor bloating. Assuming diet and training are in check (and I assume they are ) you can expect to get very hard and vascular from that stack. M-Dien when dosed high enough should also counteract the 1-test lethargy, so don't worry about that. I never had a problem with progesterone while on M-Dien stacked with a gang of 4AD-cyp/prop, so don't worry about that either. M-Dien seems like it's almost forgotten, or has a bad rap. I sure do miss my gram of powder, though. :drunk:

 

[wastedwhiteboy2]

Someone ought to come out with higher dosed caps or tabs.

gotta agree!

 

[supersoldier]

Or more powder.

 

[Cardinal]

I think trying to separate out and compare the lethargy from M1T (and all the other sides that go with it) to the lethargy from 1-Test is almost futile. The cause may not even be the same.

In my experience, 1-T trans lethargy is very predictable. 30-60 minutes after application, I feel what can best be described as the effects of a mild muscle relaxant. A bit of warmth and a calm feeling. Everytime I apply I feel it. Effects can last a few hours. This seems not to be very dependent on how much 4AD I stack with it.

The lethargy from 1-Test is experienced by 'most' users from what I can tell and is very manageable. It can be effectively combatted with stimulants like E/C or just C for example in addition to 4AD. Not that big of a deal imo.

For those that experience the M1T lethargy, it is not nearly as easy to combat and generally makes people feel like crap. I.e. not something that someone can adjust to after a week or two of dosing. The crappy feeling has been likened to the effects of anadrol for those that have used both.

Sorry if this is getting off topic, just wanted to throw my experience/thoughts in there.

-Cardinal

 

[Strateg0s]

You can still get powder at Smi2le.biz. There is also a sale, via a link posted over at Avantlabs forums by the owner of Smil2le. I think it is about $25/g of the raw powder. Without the link from Avantlabs, the mdien is mixed with vitamin C powder, which is easier to measure, but not as cheap per gram of the raw.

 

[T-Bone]

I have read about the progesterone levels rising with M1T. Also people tell you to stack it with 4ad to combact the lethargy. 4Ad can be estrogenic though, and a combo of progesterone and estrogen isn't a good thing for a male that doesn't want tits!. I have read a bunch of people reporting gyno problems at bulknutrition from m1t, 4ad stacks. Is there anything a person could take that would lower or limit progesterone levels?. I want to do a mdien cycle as soon as I get enough damn bottles!. I need about 7 more. Its pretty expensive when you have to dose these methlys so high. Next time a new one comes out I hope to god its dosed higher!.

 

[Kellyb]

In my experience, 1-T trans lethargy is very predictable. 30-60 minutes after application, I feel what can best beIn my experience, 1-T trans lethargy is very predictable. 30-60 minutes after application, I feel what can best be described as the effects of a mild muscle relaxant. described as the effects of a mild muscle relaxant.

I'm glad you said that cause I notice the exact same thing. When I've used trans 1-t I get up early in the morning and apply it then get back in bed and it seems to put me to sleep.

 

[T-Bone]

I still want to know the difference between MDIEN and M4OHN?. Both descriptions on bulknutrition look like they are exactly the same thing, the only difference is the name. I know they are two different things, but I have yet to see anything descriptive enough to let me in on the difference!. Please link any articles or information on the difference between these too.

Heres a description of MDIEN

Methyl-Dien, for all extents & purposes, can best be thought of as a highly orally bioavailable, non-aromatizing 19-Nortestosterone derivative that boasts a very anabolic and moderately androgenic profile. Just to give you an idea, Methyl-Dien is only a single double-bond away from the 'ubersteroid' 17a-Methyl-17b-Hydroxyestra-4,9,11-Trien-3-one, one of the most anabolic (as well as hepatotoxic) steroids known to man.


Heres one of M4OHN

M4OHN is an active hormone, it does not require a conversion to a target hormone such as 4AD Cyp. It is a Nandrolone derivative however the 4-OH group added inhibits a conversion to DHT (dihydrotestosterone) or DHN (dihydronandrolone) making this a mildly androgenic and highly anabolic compound. There is also no conversion to estrogen (Rubin et al. Endrocinol., 49, 1951, p. 429); or progesterone (McPhail, 3. Physiol. 83,1955, p. 145). Mg to Mg comparison M4OHN is 10x more anabolic then Anavar.


Now the only differences I see are that M4OHN says it doesn't convert to DHT. I don't thing Mdien does either though since it is a nandronlone derivative also. Someone please explain the EXACT difference between these two!.

 

[D_town]

Most basic answer:



MD-17a-methyl-17b-hydroxyestra-4,9(10)dien-3-one

MOHN-17a-methyl-3-oxo-19-norandrostene-4,17-diol

 

[FZane]

Mdien

In my opinion (just finished 3 wks at 12mg/day) M-dien is ****! Didn't gain a thing.
I will never waste money on it again. If higher doses would make a difference, which I
doubt, it would make the gains to cost ratio rediculous. Do a 1/4Ad transdermal and know
you are going to make gains at half the price of MDien and not know if you are going to be one
of the few who gain from it.

 

[topolo]

In my opinion (just finished 3 wks at 12mg/day) M-dien is ****! Didn't gain a thing.
I will never waste money on it again. If higher doses would make a difference, which I
doubt, it would make the gains to cost ratio rediculous. Do a 1/4Ad transdermal and know
you are going to make gains at half the price of MDien and not know if you are going to be one
of the few who gain from it.

Did you lean out at all form it??????

 

[T-Bone]

I want a more descriptive answer. There has got to be a difference. Otherwise, why not discontinue one of the products. Or at least lower the price. I think $10 is good. I mean for the amount you have to take to get results...I mean like the other guy said it has such a bad rap...but I guess if dosed at least at 20mg you can get good results. I already have half the bottles I need for a cycle...So I will save till I have enough for a complete cycle. I just hope its not a waste!

 

[supersoldier]

You can still get powder at Smi2le.biz. There is also a sale, via a link posted over at Avantlabs forums by the owner of Smil2le. I think it is about $25/g of the raw powder. Without the link from Avantlabs, the mdien is mixed with vitamin C powder, which is easier to measure, but not as cheap per gram of the raw.

Can you post a link to that link?

 

[FZane]

I noticed no leaning from it either!

 

[SonOfThor]

RE: Smi2le.biz: U have to buy 5g at a time though... Not sure I wanna buy 5g of a substance that I've never tried before...

 

[Jack of Shadows]

In my opinion (just finished 3 wks at 12mg/day) M-dien is ****! Didn't gain a thing.
I will never waste money on it again. If higher doses would make a difference, which I
doubt, it would make the gains to cost ratio rediculous. Do a 1/4Ad transdermal and know
you are going to make gains at half the price of MDien and not know if you are going to be one
of the few who gain from it.

I personally cannot abide feeling like crap for the sake of a few extra pounds anymore so I think that MD is "all-around" much better than M4 (which made me feel like crap most days). "All around" in that psychologically and physically I felt much better using it and I also put on a reasonable amount of lean mass (4-5 pounds) using it at about 10 mg per day for four weeks.

 

[dingobite]

Didnt feel cramped at all compared to M1t and 1Ad which did get to pumped to finish full workouts after the second one in a week.
Job also helped slow me down.

Had some small gains on Mdein by itself finnally broke 13 inches on the arms tris grew after beating them most this year. Then again im kinda on the low end where the muscle counts so it might have a big part to do with the gains.

Next time im going to start around 8 mgrams end up at arount 12 or 14 tabs finishing my 6 weeks this year.


189lbs Plan on loosing some and keeping gains in '04
Arms 14 inches Pumped
legs 24 inches center mass, quads are suck
5'10
12%bf