PH Stackin Question

[biggsteve]

Hey Guys, I recently ordered both Methyl Masterdrol V3 and finaflex Andro-1 and am looking to do a cycle. I have done a couple of cycles with Epistane before this and have seen some pretty solid results. I have been looking to take those gains to the next level and was wondering if anyone could help me design a way where i could stack M-drol and the fina flex together for optimal gains, if this would even be advised. I'm not a PH guru so i figured I would ask around before i did something stupid, getting gyno and destroying my liver are somethings id rather live without. I have heard of numerous cases where people have stacked both of these Ph's with epistane and gotten great results without any negative side effects and was wondering if i could pair these up the same. I have all of my PCT and Aid supps in order so me taking proper precautions is not an issue. thanks for any help

 

[gymrat827]

Return the MMv3 and finaflex, buy another bottle of epistane or halo (helladrol is still sold)

 

[biggsteve]

due to the terms of purchase agreement from the website i got them from i can't :/

 

[biggsteve]

anyone else?

 

[gymrat827]

The MMv3 is the same as CEL stanodrol, very androgenic

m drol doesnt need to be stacked with anything. you could toss in the MMv3 but it wont be needed

 

[biggsteve]

so you're saying it wouldnt hurt me, but wouldnt neccessarily give me that much more in terms of gains vs. risk? could you also suggest anything in terms of dosages? when i did Epi i stayed pretty moderate with a 20/30/30/40.

 

[biggsteve]

bump

 

[biggsteve]

Update: I have sense purchased a few bottles of havoc (epistane) and have decided to run an Mdrol epistande bridge insted. any advise on this? im thinking of going
10mg m-drol
20mg m-drol
20mg m-drol-20mg-epi
00mg m-drol-30mg-epi
00mg m-drol-40mg-epi
00mg m-drol-40mg-epi (start tamox here)
then continuing with my pct as planned

 

[TheDarkHalf]

Update: I have sense purchased a few bottles of havoc (epistane) and have decided to run an Mdrol epistande bridge insted. any advise on this? im thinking of going
10mg m-drol
20mg m-drol
20mg m-drol-20mg-epi
00mg m-drol-30mg-epi
00mg m-drol-40mg-epi
00mg m-drol-40mg-epi (start tamox here)
then continuing with my pct as planned

Honestly, running epi at anything less than 40 is a waste. Just run it at 40mg for 4 weeks. You also might want to consider running transaderm during your cycle.

It'll help provide a test base, help with gains, help with shutdown, make pct easier, etc. You get an 8 week supply in one bottle.

 

[gymrat827]

go with 40mg of epi for 4-5wks or stack the MMv3 with m drol for 4wks. dose the m drol 10/10/20/20, either cycle could benefit a ton for 5 pumps of transderm day. Esp the m drol stack

 

[biggsteve]

what about stacking mmv3 and the epi or possibly bridging? and thanks for all the help guys i really appreciate it

 

[gymrat827]

what about stacking mmv3 and the epi or possibly bridging? and thanks for all the help guys i really appreciate it

you can stack those, the general rules for stacking: one meth, one non meth. or both non meth. If you are very experienced stacking 2 meths is an option.

30-45mg of epi with MMv3 would be pretty good.

 

[Sourdough]

while epi has a huge anabolic profile on paper its still fairly androgenic in terms of side effects... i dont know that I would like to stack epi and MMv3 together...

I think the original plan to run SD then Epi after would be good for solidifying gains.

and transaderm??? what, topical DHEA???? I wouldnt dream of using it. just begs for gyno if no AI is used and wouldnt be ideal with Epi already in the mix... est levels could then get TOO LOW.


A 4DHEA wouldnt be a bad idea though and there are more then one company out there that offer this right now... much lower conversion rates to est.

 

[biggsteve]

so collectively, to gain the most lean mass, keep the most lean mass, and see the least sides should I:
1) stack epi and Methyl Masterdrol v3
2) run just epi at 40-50
3) use the transaderm with either combination of the two above

thanks for all the feed back guys, and no worries i dont plan on starting this stack for at least another month so im glad im getting all this feedback now instead of after i already ****ed up.

as of now the phs i have at my disposal are:
1 bottle of Methyl Masterdrol v3
1 bottle of fina flex 1-andro
2 bottles of rpn havoc (epi)
I also just purchased the transaderm as well

thanks again

 

[TheDarkHalf]

while epi has a huge anabolic profile on paper its still fairly androgenic in terms of side effects... i dont know that I would like to stack epi and MMv3 together...

I think the original plan to run SD then Epi after would be good for solidifying gains.

and transaderm??? what, topical DHEA???? I wouldnt dream of using it. just begs for gyno if no AI is used and wouldnt be ideal with Epi already in the mix... est levels could then get TOO LOW.


A 4DHEA wouldnt be a bad idea though and there are more then one company out there that offer this right now... much lower conversion rates to est.

http://www.biomed.cas.cz/physiolres/pdf/49/49_685.pdf

so collectively, to gain the most lean mass, keep the most lean mass, and see the least sides should I:
1) stack epi and Methyl Masterdrol v3
2) run just epi at 40-50
3) use the transaderm with either combination of the two above

thanks for all the feed back guys, and no worries i dont plan on starting this stack for at least another month so im glad im getting all this feedback now instead of after i already ****ed up.

as of now the phs i have at my disposal are:
1 bottle of Methyl Masterdrol v3
1 bottle of fina flex 1-andro
2 bottles of rpn havoc (epi)
I also just purchased the transaderm as well

thanks again

Yeah man I'd roll with mdrol/epi with transaderm....would provide some nice gains if your diet is right

 

[gymrat827]

while epi has a huge anabolic profile on paper its still fairly androgenic in terms of side effects... i dont know that I would like to stack epi and MMv3 together...

I think the original plan to run SD then Epi after would be good for solidifying gains.

and transaderm??? what, topical DHEA???? I wouldnt dream of using it. just begs for gyno if no AI is used and wouldnt be ideal with Epi already in the mix... est levels could then get TOO LOW.


A 4DHEA wouldnt be a bad idea though and there are more then one company out there that offer this right now... much lower conversion rates to est.

I dont think you have any clue about topical DHEA and its uses. It is perfect for an oral PH cycle. No AI would be needed unless you are doubling the normal dose.

 

[biggsteve]

so masterdrol bridged into epi with transaderm for the win? lol
any reccamendations on the dosages ?

 

[Sourdough]

I dont think you have any clue about topical DHEA and its uses. It is perfect for an oral PH cycle. No AI would be needed unless you are doubling the normal dose.

I dont think you have any clue WHAT I know...

Ive been at this far longer then you prob think and been studying PH's since the preban era hormones pal. your buds study just proves my point.

 

[Sourdough]

Yeah man I'd roll with mdrol/epi with transaderm....would provide some nice gains if your diet is right

What exactly are you trying to prove with this study?

If you actually read it throughout you'll find it only validates my concerns.

You probably only read to the second page and checked out the charts.... That's only the first 6 days.

Continue on to page 3 where they continue to discuss the results of blood tests 5 weeks out (after only 6 days of use they tested then again 5weeks out to see if things "normalize") and although test was increased 50% estrogen was increased 3 fold or in other words 300%.


This coupled with the fact dhea can have a direct interaction with the ER without ANY conversion and this was only a 6 day supplementation routine (not 4-8 weeks like oral ph cycles) I'd be worried considerably about estrogen related side effects from topical dhea supplementation.

This also means even 5 weeks after cessation, after pct, your still going to have the downstream cascade of hormone conversions to estrogen and the like, likely at an even higher rate then in the study cause of compounded use beyond that of the 6 days of supplementation in the study.

4-dhea and 1-dhea do not suffer from these problems as they either can't aromatize directly to estrogen or have to reach the target hormone, testosterone, to even be effected (1-test can't aromatize).

Supplementation with 4-dhea would be a valid and wiser option during a cycle, but unless your WANTING estrogen increases, I wouldn't touch dhea without an AI.... Even then the metabolite 5-androstenediol can directly interact with the ER and effects dhea can have on the thyroid should be considered before use...

So, again, what was the point of posting that study? Cause only a link tells me nothing regarding what you were trying to prove.

 

[biggsteve]

sourdough would running the methyl masterdrol into epi bridge be okay without the transaderm, or if i bought a 4 or 1 Dhea? even though everything i keep reading says the transaderm has in it a bunch of checks and balances for estro and would be perfect for a test base and its not methylated so it wont hurt the liver?

 

[MidwestBeast]

You don't need the Transaderm. However, I think it would be beneficial -- and I think all of the users who have ran Dermacrine in the past and as you see more users doing the same with Transaderm, would be evidence that it's a good choice.

All that aside, I think you should just pick something and stick to it, OP (I don't mean that in a rude way, either). You could debate for eternity on one stack vs. another or adding/subtracting a compound. As long as you've done your research, you should feel comfortable in a choice. Stick to it and rock and roll.

Best of luck.

 

[RickRock13]

You don't need the Transaderm. However, I think it would be beneficial -- and I think all of the users who have ran Dermacrine in the past and as you see more users doing the same with Transaderm, would be evidence that it's a good choice.

All that aside, I think you should just pick something and stick to it, OP (I don't mean that in a rude way, either). You could debate for eternity on one stack vs. another or adding/subtracting a compound. As long as you've done your research, you should feel comfortable in a choice. Stick to it and rock and roll.

Best of luck.

This^^^

Transaderm is not a necessity to your cycle, but will make it better. You will feel much better all the way around. An AI is not required for it at normal dose. I wouldnt worry about gyno on Transaderm either. Ive never heard of anybody getting gyno on Dermacrine, and Transaderm is the same thing. You may retain a little water on it just as you would with any wet PH, but that will go away after coming off of it.

 

[biggsteve]

You don't need the Transaderm. However, I think it would be beneficial -- and I think all of the users who have ran Dermacrine in the past and as you see more users doing the same with Transaderm, would be evidence that it's a good choice.

All that aside, I think you should just pick something and stick to it, OP (I don't mean that in a rude way, either). You could debate for eternity on one stack vs. another or adding/subtracting a compound. As long as you've done your research, you should feel comfortable in a choice. Stick to it and rock and roll.

i think youre completely right, epi has never steered me wrong before so im think ing of sticking to that at a solid 40/40/50/50, one last question though. if i do that with epi and since the transaderm is non methylated could i spray a lil along with the epi i mean i did already spend the money one it lol. and ill save the other two phs for some other.
thanks for the help man.

 

[Sourdough]

sourdough would running the methyl masterdrol into epi bridge be okay without the transaderm, or if i bought a 4 or 1 Dhea? even though everything i keep reading says the transaderm has in it a bunch of checks and balances for estro and would be perfect for a test base and its not methylated so it wont hurt the liver?

There is chrysin... Not a bad AI.... But I would still go a step further, using a suicide inhibitor if your prone to estrogenic sides....

In all honesty though alongside epi, it prob won't be toooo bad. Id be more worried about using dhea/pregnenolone solo along with something already wet or alongside a some dht converting compound. It could lead to some prostate issues.

I really think that there is still no reason to use dhea when there is alternatives out there that won't lend themselves to conversion issues as much, especially considering cost.

Dhea powder can be found very cheaply (75g is only $32, 25g is only $8, 1g=1000mg...... Transaderm has 4.5g) and a td carrier can be purchased for $12-20 depending on what you pick....

If I was going to spend 60 bucks on ph's it wont be for dhea.... I'd pick a more direct prohormone to test like 4-dhea....

Jmho.

 

[biggsteve]

There is chrysin... Not a bad AI.... But I would still go a step further, using a suicide inhibitor if your prone to estrogenic sides....

In all honesty though alongside epi, it prob won't be toooo bad. Id be more worried about using dhea/pregnenolone solo along with something already wet or alongside a some dht converting compound. It could lead to some prostate issues.

I really think that there is still no reason to use dhea when there is alternatives out there that won't lend themselves to conversion issues as much, especially considering cost.

Dhea powder can be found very cheaply (75g is only $32, 25g is only $8, 1g=1000mg...... Transaderm has 4.5g) and a td carrier can be purchased for $12-20 depending on what you pick....

If I was going to spend 60 bucks on ph's it wont be for dhea.... I'd pick a more direct prohormone to test like 4-dhea....

Jmho.

if i were to go the poweder route, what dosage should i take, and would you suggest the 4 or 1 dhea in terms of helping with lean gains. my last run of epi i gained close to 20 lbs with a little bit of fat, im looking to get a little less then that but more of a lean mass if that has any bareing on which to take.

 

[Sourdough]

im just pointing out the actual cost of DHEA, transdermal carriers, and for another 20 bucks an AI could be had as well and all would last much longer....

Im still not advocating its use what so ever.... I would steer clear of DHEA unless you are really in need of DHEA, not test.


4-DHEA can currently be found in some AMS supps (4-AD UTT and another version i cant remember right now) and in some Primordial Performance Supps (Andromass V1 and V2.... V3 should have even higher amounts of 4-DHEA and less 1-DHEA as I hear it).

Personally though they are all fairly high in cost considering the benefits and I think your better off sticking to one compound (Epi) and focusing on the diet to get your exact goals achieved....

 

[biggsteve]

im just pointing out the actual cost of DHEA, transdermal carriers, and for another 20 bucks an AI could be had as well and all would last much longer....

Im still not advocating its use what so ever.... I would steer clear of DHEA unless you are really in need of DHEA, not test.


4-DHEA can currently be found in some AMS supps (4-AD UTT and another version i cant remember right now) and in some Primordial Performance Supps (Andromass V1 and V2.... V3 should have even higher amounts of 4-DHEA and less 1-DHEA as I hear it).

Personally though they are all fairly high in cost considering the benefits and I think your better off sticking to one compound (Epi) and focusing on the diet to get your exact goals achieved....

alright, thanks for everything guys, as of right now im thinking you all convinced me to do another run of straight epi at higher dosages than before. youve all been a lot of help and i appreciate it, hopefully 40-50 as opposed to 20-30 = more gains. if anyone else has anything else to add or any other view id be more than happy to listen to those as well seeing i still dont plan on starting this cycle till about nov. 14th.

 

[rebelhead]

chrysin is garbage

 

[Milas]

chrysin is garbage

orally yes, much better as a td though.

 

[biggsteve]

hey guys been thinking it over and one last question, like ive said i normally just run epi solo, so if i decide to get a dhea or use transaderm, how do i use it as a test base? just run it along with my cycle, or start it at a specific point during the cycle? sorry havent really utilized test bases before, thanks for any help

 

[rebelhead]

i' m gonna start selling transdermal cholesterol as a otc replacement for test base. there should be good conversion but it must be applied to the scrotum. it's called PLACEBODROL made from 100% non-organic animal fat. please contact me if u need any. bulk orders available

 

[Milas]

i' m gonna start selling transdermal cholesterol as a otc replacement for test base. there should be good conversion but it must be applied to the scrotum. it's called PLACEBODROL made from 100% non-organic animal fat. please contact me if u need any. bulk orders available

Vasoline? Got it already, apply generously!

 

[Lil Swole]

eMonster

Thoughts? I ended up scoring 3 bottles for basically free. Don't know if I should use or sell? If I use, not sure what to run with it, I have limited experience with PH. Help!

 

[Lil Swole]

The one thing I know that this is hell on a liver.

 

[gymrat827]

im just pointing out the actual cost of DHEA, transdermal carriers, and for another 20 bucks an AI could be had as well and all would last much longer....

Im still not advocating its use what so ever.... I would steer clear of DHEA unless you are really in need of DHEA, not test.


4-DHEA can currently be found in some AMS supps (4-AD UTT and another version i cant remember right now) and in some Primordial Performance Supps (Andromass V1 and V2.... V3 should have even higher amounts of 4-DHEA and less 1-DHEA as I hear it).

Personally though they are all fairly high in cost considering the benefits and I think your better off sticking to one compound (Epi) and focusing on the diet to get your exact goals achieved....

wiht our 15% code which we openly display a bottle of Transderm is 46 dollars shipped. and with double the servings of dermacrine its a pretty good deal to me.

 

[Sourdough]

wiht our 15% code which we openly display a bottle of Transderm is 46 dollars shipped. and with double the servings of dermacrine its a pretty good deal to me.

in comparison to dermacrine, yes its a steal, in comparison to dhea powder, carrier and an ai.... Its robbery.

 

[TheDarkHalf]

in comparison to dermacrine, yes its a steal, in comparison to dhea powder, carrier and an ai.... Its robbery.

 

[Sourdough]

<img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=45657"/>

Can't argue with chuck norris, lol!