Could 4OHT replace 4AD?
- 08-17-2004, 09:21 PM
Could 4OHT replace 4AD?
Here's an interesting idea. Many people use 4AD cyp or prop in a stack as their "test" equivalant. Obviously 4OHT isn't as powerfull as normal testosterone since it doesn't convert to DHT nor estrogen. 4AD doesn't convert to either of these directly and only the small portion (15%?) that converts to test has this capability for further conversion anyways. At a gram or more a week 4AD cyp has a decent anabolic effect as well as major libido boosting effect and an increased sense of well being; (as you know this is great for combatting fatigue and limp noodle from non-testosterone anabolics.)
So the question is mg per mg how does 4OHT stack up to 4AD in anabolic activiity? Does it provide the same positive testoserone like effects as 4AD (libido, mood)?
As of this point the only significant amount that has commonly been used in this way as far as I know is in the mix of Sledge Test, this is of coarse in conjunction with 4AD at a greater amount. Anyone have experience with 4OHT at greater doses without 4AD?
- 08-19-2004, 12:05 AM
GM, I've never tried 4OHT, but I doubt that it could support libido. It is about 80% as anabolic as test but closer to 20% as andogenic. 4AD on the other had is about 95% / 125% anabolic to androgenic.
- 08-19-2004, 04:39 PM
So the question is mg per mg how does 4OHT stack up to 4AD in anabolic activiity
I've wondered about that too. seems to me 4oht would because it doesnt have to convert. you lose a lot with 4ad in the conversion. but that estrogen helps build muscle.
08-19-2004, 07:38 PM
Doc, thanks for sharing your thoughts. What you say seams to be pretty logical but I've always had a hard time understanding how 4AD could bind very well to androgen receptors with a hydroxyl at the 3 position; I was under the impression that the keto here was essential, (from what I understand winstrol has poor binding for this reason.)
I was kind of thinking along the same lines as wastedwhiteboy with 4OHT needing no conversion, although the 4 hydroxyl group seams it would also have an effect on androgen binding as well.
I've read advertising for 4OHT that says it does increase libido but you have to take that with a shaker full of salt of coarse. If Sledge or someone has tried this it would be interesting to hear how real world results correlate to the A/A ratios.
Last edited by growmore; 08-19-2004 at 08:13 PM.
08-20-2004, 12:54 AM
Actually, the 3 position is not too crutial. The 17-OH is a must but you can have some freedom at the 3. Also, the 4-OH doesn't interfere too bad either w/ alpha ring bindind at the 3. 4AD is strong w/out conversion. But on second thought, the 4-OH test may boost libido indirectly by way of SHBG and enti-e effects. Formestane does pretty well. I bet a half and half combo of 4ad & 4oht would work nicely.
08-23-2004, 10:46 AM
If these numbers are right and they look about like what I've seen in vida's and others. Then a 75% 4AD 25% OHT like animal sells would be very close in anabolic androgenic ratio to testosterone. ~91% anabolic ~99% androgenic with much less estrogen and DHT. And I know 4AD supports libido quite well.Originally Posted by DR.D
08-24-2004, 09:09 PM
i still dont know how they sell this one since it is patented by searle
this is the steroid clostebol guys but it has no ester so you need to get around 600-900mg daily for this steroid to work.
but yah if they were able to put an ester on this one and somehow up the strength then bam you got the perfect steroid here no problems with hairloss or bitch tits.
08-24-2004, 10:58 PM
D, you make a good point. It does sound like a good ratio to use if you are looking for a solid iso-test effect while cutting sides and not even needing ancillaries probably.Originally Posted by dego
08-24-2004, 11:02 PM
It's not 'Clostebol', just a derivitive with the same benefits, actually, I like the OH at the 4 better than a halogen.Originally Posted by BryanM
08-24-2004, 11:59 PM
Price is probably the main factor in not having 4OHT play a bigger base role. There was someone on this site who used a 4OHT only cycle and loved it.
Having used both 4ad and 4ad/4oht transdermals I do think that 4oht plays a role in raising libido..possibly synergistically with 4ad.
08-25-2004, 07:28 PM
Interesting to hear your experience, thanks; no doubt, the price does seam quite a bit higher than 4ad... wonder if that's just a cost/demand thing?Originally Posted by bioman
08-26-2004, 10:18 AM
09-26-2004, 09:49 PM
09-27-2004, 06:24 AM
09-28-2004, 07:21 PM
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