Starting First Cycle In Mid-September (Complete Nutrition Products): Questions

[api27]

I have been hooked up with a stack from Complete Nutrition- I know, everyone hates Complete Nutrition.

i will never follow their stack advice,.. I have been doing a ton of research and I want everyone's opinions.

Stack I currently have:
LLL (Legal Limit Labs) 5-Deca-Zol (15 mg Superdrol + 12.5 mg Halodrol) x2 daily.
LLL Optimizer (Anti-estrogen, Milk Thistle, Saw Palmetto)
Tonalin Tone Fat Burner (Fish Oils, CLA, etc...)
LLL 6-Estro PCT
LLL 3-Test-Oxo Natural Test Boost

As you know 5-Deca-Zol is 2 methyls stacked together (SD+HD). Complete Nutrition has a product by LLL called Supernova (Superdrol 10mg; ANABOLIC ACTIVATOR BLEND: 6,7,-dyhydroxybergamottin (DHB), Vanadyl, Bioperine 22.5mg).

I am thinking of swapping the 5-Deca-Zol for Supernova (straight Superdrol), that way I will not be stacking 2 methyls.

Here are all my questions:
1. Would you switch the 5-deca (SD+HD) for Supernova (SD only), that way I am not stacking 2 methyls? (They also have straight Halodrol, or straight Cynostane, or straight Epistane...)
2. If so, how would you run the Supernova (or whichever product) considering it's my first cycle?
3. The LLL Optimizer I have- is that enough of everything to keep liver/prostate/anti-estro ok? Run during cycle only or through pct as well?
4. The Tonalin Tone pills I have- they were given for cholesterol level maintenance and heart/fat maintenance, I have absolutely NO info on these... does anyone know if this will suffice? Really concerned about cholesterol.
5. The 2 LLL PCT's I have... they are OTC, I have heard (numerous times) they are absolute s***. I have a source to get Nolvadex. Should I simply run Nolvadex and not these 2 PCT products? When to start Nolva? Maybe Nolva AND the natural test booster, or maybe all 3?
6. Are there any products for support that I am missing? (besides 2 gallons of water a day, lol). I want as much support as possible.
7. Is there anything I should do pre-cycle to prepare my body for all this?
8. Should I continue to use all my normal supplements I usually take? (listed in the thread linked above)
9. Getting to basics- how much cardio should I do on cycle (currently trying to gain, so I don't do much...)
10. Basics again- looking for equal size and strength gains, both large.. (why I want to do Superdrol), what would your rep range be (currently on 6-8)

Thanks in advance guys, apologies for the long ass post.

 

[kom01]

Too much information to read man. Anyway just go with straight H-drol for your first cycle. You will need the following;

1) Hdrol x 2 bottles
2) Cycle Assist (used on cycle)
3) Fish oil
4) Multi
5) Liv 52 (used for pct)
6) Hawthorn Berry (used for pre-loading)
7) SERM = Nolva (most importantly).
8) Anti-cortisol product such as Lean Xtreme for PCT (not a necessity)
9) Test booster for PCT (however also not a necessity)

See how you go with that, before attempting S-drol. Two reason not to go straight to s-drol;

1) By starting on a mild prohormone, you will have an idea how you will react to s-drol. Meaning that if you get gyno (although impossible/rare) from H-drol, you will definitely get it on S-drol.

2) Why start with the best, you won't have anything to look forward to.

Final note: try avoiding prohormone combo products because if you experience sides, you won't know which compound is causing it. Also, most companies don't usually dose them at optimal levels for each compound.

 

[MidwestBeast]

Yeah, I can't read that whole thing. Good info from kom. Definitely don't do that cycle. And if you work your way up to SD, don't jump right into 30mg/day. Ease into it.

All of their products for support sound like a joke, to me. Whatever that first one was isn't the same as an actual AI.

 

[api27]

I shortened it a bit.

 

[api27]

Thanks Kom, Ok, definitely going to go with Nolva and not their pct product, except I will also use the 3-Test-Oxo cause I've heard it's a decent natural test booster.
Which hawthorn berry product do you use? Also... what if I kept 5-deca-zol and simply followed actual bottle dose (1 pill a day)... this would be 15 mg Superdrol + 12.5 mg Halodrol for 30 days. May be stupid. Let me know.

 

[kom01]

Thanks Kom, Ok, definitely going to go with Nolva and not their pct product, except I will also use the 3-Test-Oxo cause I've heard it's a decent natural test booster. Which hawthorn berry product do you use? Also... what if I kept 5-deca-zol and simply followed actual bottle dose (1 pill a day)... this would be 15 mg Superdrol + 12.5 mg Halodrol for 30 days. May be stupid. Let me know.

It doesn't matter which HB you use, just get the cheapest or alternatively (if money isn't an issue), preload the cycle support. That product seems like a bit of a waste at that dosage of hdrol, however nevertheless still hold out from using sdrol. I know it's tuff man, but people who run compounds such a sdrol first usually aren't experienced enough to combat the sides and don't know how to keep the gains.

 

[gymrat827]

if you run SD and Haol together you would want to ru 10-20SD and 75-100 halo. The product you have has way too much SD and not enough Halo. Buy a bottle of helladrol and run one cap of that mix with 75 halo. But this is your first cycle so that wouldnt be a good idea.

Run your two pct products and the Nolva, you will hold way more muscle when the cycle and PCT is over with. Just run the Helladrol (halo ) for your first time. use all the stuff you already have and some NTBM DAA in pct too.

 

[api27]

Thanks guys, ok, I am going to switch the 5-Deca-Zol for their product Halo Zol, which is just Halodrol 25mg x3 daily. How would you run it? 75/75/100/100?

Gymrat- thanks for the info- you're saying for PCT to take the 3-Test-Oxo, 6-Estro PCT, and Nolva.. can you take too many products for PCT?

I've read that HD is going to give more strength gains than mass gains, what is a realistic expectation for mass gains with HD (with proper diet and everything else)? I really want dramatic mass gains... (who doesn't).

 

[jk47]

Too much information to read man. Anyway just go with straight H-drol for your first cycle. You will need the following;

1) Hdrol x 2 bottles
2) Cycle Assist (used on cycle)
3) Fish oil
4) Multi
5) Liv 52 (used for pct)
6) Hawthorn Berry (used for pre-loading)
7) SERM = Nolva (most importantly).
8) Anti-cortisol product such as Lean Xtreme for PCT (not a necessity)
9) Test booster for PCT (however also not a necessity)

See how you go with that, before attempting S-drol. Two reason not to go straight to s-drol;

1) By starting on a mild prohormone, you will have an idea how you will react to s-drol. Meaning that if you get gyno (although impossible/rare) from H-drol, you will definitely get it on S-drol.

2) Why start with the best, you won't have anything to look forward to.

Final note: try avoiding prohormone combo products because if you experience sides, you won't know which compound is causing it. Also, most companies don't usually dose them at optimal levels for each compound.

Could you hypothetically run the same cycle with havoc instead of hdrol? Would you recommend the hdrol cycle over the havoc for a first timer looking to lean bulk/slight recomp?

 

[Sklander]

Def. do not run that stupid ass stack thing. Overdosed SD - underdosed Hdrol = bull****.

I didn't read much past OP, but glanced and saw the possibility of a havoc/epi cycle being ran instead. Def. just make sure to keep it at one methyl. Epi is badass and so is hdrol - def suggest helladrol, as you get a fully 6wker out of it in one bottle. Epi rocks too. Its up to you, bro. But run one methyl and run the hell out of it... best way to do it...

 

[MidwestBeast]

Thanks guys, ok, I am going to switch the 5-Deca-Zol for their product Halo Zol, which is just Halodrol 25mg x3 daily. How would you run it? 75/75/100/100?

Gymrat- thanks for the info- you're saying for PCT to take the 3-Test-Oxo, 6-Estro PCT, and Nolva.. can you take too many products for PCT?

I've read that HD is going to give more strength gains than mass gains, what is a realistic expectation for mass gains with HD (with proper diet and everything else)? I really want dramatic mass gains... (who doesn't).

If you're running halo, run it for 6 weeks. It doesn't kick in for a bit, so it wouldn't feel like much at all with a 4 week run.

Start off at 50mg/day and feel free to bump to 75 the first week; just go by how your body feels.

You could technically run "too much" in PCT, but it's not very likely. You just make sure things aren't competing with each other.

And whatever your mass gains are are mostly gonna come from how you eat -- the other products you hear people gaining tons of mass from are usually a lot of glycogen or water along with whatever weight is put on.

 

[api27]

You could technically run "too much" in PCT, but it's not very likely. You just make sure things aren't competing with each other.

Ok, thanks. Info helps a ton man. I'm still just not getting PCT though- right now it's looking like Nolva, 3-Test-Oxo, 6-Estro, Liv 52 AND Lean Xtreme anti cortisol? Is this too many products and will these things get in the way of each other.

 

[kom01]

Could you hypothetically run the same cycle with havoc instead of hdrol? Would you recommend the hdrol cycle over the havoc for a first timer looking to lean bulk/slight recomp?

Yes, if you are not concerned about hair loss (that is, if you are proned to MPB). I would love to run epi but have seen many people say they have shed whilst on it and in some cases it has been permanent.

 

[jk47]

Yes, if you are not concerned about hair loss (that is, if you are proned to MPB). I would love to run epi but have seen many people say they have shed whilst on it and in some cases it has been permanent.

hdrol it is, f that

 

[api27]

bump for my pct question

 

[kom01]

I would honestly just use Nolva, liv 52 and lean xtreme.