ANDROSERIES VS THE REST???

[sking6464]

being AM, i know tons of guys have hit up the androseries

iv seen 6wk, 8wk, even 10wk, stacked, solo, cut, bulk, ect ect ect

question is, are they really that good? worth it? and do they top some of the classics?

taking into consideration the following

-GAINS (strength, muscle size/added, recomping effects)
-EASE OF PCT (quick recovery as opposed to brutal shutdown)
-SIDES (bp, alt, hdl/ldl, general feeling of well being, ect......if sd is rough side wise for most, where does say andromass fit in?)
-EASE OF CYCLE (was it enjoyable vs was their a tradeoff of feeling crap for 15lbs)

maybe guys can rank their top 3, when they weigh all the above

personally, i have only used androlean, and it was very very mild for my taste being an aas user, but in combination with ec was very effective

prior ph experience of m1t, hdrol/tbol lv, epi, methoxy tren........my favorite when i weigh gains and side is epi, even at 60mg it wasnt so bad on my bloods, but the gains were fantastic, conversely m1t is the strongest stuff iv ever used until tren enth, but god only knows what a couple 3weekers did to me back then

 

[rulk22]

Great questioin sking, im looking forward to the replies.

 

[jbryand101b]

i dont know, I will be logging it very soon, and will let weakly pictures do the talking for me so everyone can see what it can do from an experienced user using it. granted, it's only going to be 4 weeks, but should be able to get an idea. 8 weeks would allow for more muscle gain/maturation though. hint hint...

 

[BigBlackGuy]

i dont know, I will be logging it very soon, and will let weakly pictures do the talking for me so everyone can see what it can do from an experienced user using it. granted, it's only going to be 4 weeks, but should be able to get an idea. 8 weeks would allow for more muscle gain/maturation though. hint hint...

lol :147:

 

[sking6464]

everyone can see what it can do from an experienced user using it. granted, it's only going to be 4 weeks, but should be able to get an idea.

experienced as in???? sorry if im ignorant, i understand you have a rep on here, but dont know how it came about.....whats your cycling history? what does 5'9 180 look like?

looking forward to your log either way, and yeah id push them for another bottle, 4wks is short, you'd feel it and then have to end it

 

[jbryand101b]

my rep came about because I know what im doing and talking about more so than most on here. there are still a good bit of people who know more than I do, but I'm a pretty knowledgable guy, enough so that supplement companies have paid me in cash for my information.

I'm not trying to sound all snotty and all, but it's just the truth. heretostudy can attest to me not being a "popular" guy as you usually see on here of reps and others, so who knows, i must be doing something right.

 

[HereToStudy]

my rep came about because I know what im doing and talking about more so than most on here. there are still a good bit of people who know more than I do, but I'm a pretty knowledgable guy, enough so that supplement companies have paid me in cash for my information.

I'm not trying to sound all snotty and all, but it's just the truth. heretostudy can attest to me not being a "popular" guy as you usually see on here of reps and others, so who knows, i must be doing something right.

I can attest to a lot of things

I think what sking was questioning was what your cycle history looks like. I know you have used OT and Epi previously, but whats the full run book?

 

[jbryand101b]

superdrol, methyl 1 test, pheraplex, halodrol, dimethazine, boladiol, boldione, 4-androstenediol, methoxygonadiene, pro dienolone, prostanozol thp ether, furazabol thp ether, anavar, tbol, epistane, w/e was in propadrol, 11-ketotestosterone, 11oxo methyl clostebol, pro methyl dht.

i think thats it. I ran monsterdrol xt which was supposed to contain 2cyano-pheraplex, but didn't see anything from it.

 

[sking6464]

superdrol, methyl 1 test, pheraplex, halodrol, dimethazine, boladiol, boldione, 4-androstenediol, methoxygonadiene, pro dienolone, prostanozol thp ether, furazabol thp ether, anavar, tbol, epistane, w/e was in propadrol, 11-ketotestosterone, 11oxo methyl clostebol, pro methyl dht.

i think thats it. I ran monsterdrol xt which was supposed to contain 2cyano-pheraplex, but didn't see anything from it.

W O W ????????

well you will be an excellent judge then!

question tho.....how the hell you stuck at 180 with all those anabolics??????? you are very knowledgeable and have a insane history of ph usage......what do you think is the issue here? short oral cycles dont work (i finally realized that after only a handful, i dont have a fraction of you experience,but got 45lbs on you at a lower bf%.......something is up here bud), diet?

btw just curious, shooting the sh*t so to speak

 

[gymrat827]

I dont think the andro series is worth the pricetag. Sh!t, u can get a bottle of sd for 20 bucks. Halo for 35, epi 40.

I'm not saying that AM or the others don't work, but dam they are expensive


U can pickup a Ph, cycle support and a serm for the same amount as andro mass. I say stick with the cheap, popular, proven ph"s

 

[JajaNe20]

W O W ????????

well you will be an excellent judge then!

question tho.....how the hell you stuck at 180 with all those anabolics??????? you are very knowledgeable and have a insane history of ph usage......what do you think is the issue here? short oral cycles dont work (i finally realized that after only a handful, i dont have a fraction of you experience,but got 45lbs on you at a lower bf%.......something is up here bud), diet?

btw just curious, shooting the sh*t so to speak

To shoot the shi* or not, sounds belittling. Come on Bro this is not necessary :sigh1:

 

[sking6464]

To shoot the shi* or not, sounds belittling. Come on Bro this is not necessary :sigh1:

yeah, reading it back, it does, my bad......poorly worded.........im looking for his take more so on phs in general, and his view on their effectiveness, considering his usage.....seeing when you jump to longer cycles, gains 'seem' much more keepable and of greater quality ........ his exact quote 'i know what im doing and talking about more so than most on here' , that was interesting to me, its why the follow up question

 

[sking6464]

superdrol, methyl 1 test, pheraplex, halodrol, dimethazine, boladiol, boldione, 4-androstenediol, methoxygonadiene, pro dienolone, prostanozol thp ether, furazabol thp ether, anavar, tbol, epistane, w/e was in propadrol, 11-ketotestosterone, 11oxo methyl clostebol, pro methyl dht.

i think thats it. I ran monsterdrol xt which was supposed to contain 2cyano-pheraplex, but didn't see anything from it.

i know goals change with each cycle.......but.....in your opinion, what was the best cycle for you when you factor in gains/sides/ease ect?

 

[BigBlackGuy]

I think Jbry's knowledge, at the least, speaks for itself.

 

[Knowbull]

Most of the products from PP are good and I think that if the series wasnt up to par, there would be a dramatic price slash. I havent been impressed with the logs.

 

[Skigazzi]

Has anyone gotten bloodwork from a cycle of AM / AL / AH yet (not stacked with non-andro series stuff). I'm quite interested to see their effect on lipids mainly, I suspect liver effects will exist but be mild...but if they still crush the lipids, I don't see how they can be considered a "safe" alternative that is worth the extra costs associated with equal or lesser results than whats already out there.

I'd still be interested in the Super-4-DHEA standalone as a test PH though (assuming it works).

 

[jbryand101b]

various reasons i dont weigh more, I've also tried various pct methods like clomid, nolva, otc pct, no pct, and because of that, gains have been lost, and some kept.

a lot of compounds that I have personally bought and tried, if I dont like them within the first 2 weeks, i loose intrest in them and it just slowly fades away. I recently cleaned out my "supplement" cabinet and tossed a few bottles of un used stuff I just quit using.

i've been up to 185, and have dieted down to 170 in order to try out cutting compounds and see how well they maintain mass via an Very Low Calorie diet.

right now people look at me and as far as I can tell they dont think, "that guy uses steroids" but i know they think, "man, that guy works out".

i'd say i have a body type more of the guys you see on magazines like mens health, mens fitness etc. I have guy in my class who hasn't ever used aas, but he already has the body look of the guys you see in MD, Flex, etc.

some just got what it takes to get that way.

 

[jbryand101b]

Has anyone gotten bloodwork from a cycle of AM / AL / AH yet (not stacked with non-andro series stuff). I'm quite interested to see their effect on lipids mainly, I suspect liver effects will exist but be mild...but if they still crush the lipids, I don't see how they can be considered a "safe" alternative that is worth the extra costs associated with equal or lesser results than whats already out there.

I'd still be interested in the Super-4-DHEA standalone as a test PH though (assuming it works).

if it was a different time for me, i'd get blood work, but I just got a complete physical done in order to start in the school im attending. so blood work for me will have to wait until i get a full time job.

 

[jbryand101b]

i know goals change with each cycle.......but.....in your opinion, what was the best cycle for you when you factor in gains/sides/ease ect?

a lot of people are different, but if I could only have one compound, i would pick hdrol. i respond well to it and have never experienced any negative side effects.

superdrol would probably be second, but thats cause at 10mg it is pretty much side effect free.

 

[sking6464]

I have guy in my class who hasn't ever used aas, but he already has the body look of the guys you see in MD, Flex, etc.

some just got what it takes to get that way.

i know that guy too lol ............ i see guys at my gym, with fantastic frame, so much potential, n im sorta envious seeing i started on the bottom end and built up over 10 yrs, when that guy can do it in 2-3 probably

pct iv never recovered better and kept more than torem tapered off into daa and endoamp

 

[jbryand101b]

I havn't tried torem yet.

 

[BigBlackGuy]

I havn't tried torem yet.

Compared to nolva it's a cake walk.

 

[jbryand101b]

interesting, i may have to get some for this time around.

 

[BigBlackGuy]

interesting, i may have to get some for this time around.

I really think Nolva is out of style, officially. Or it should be. Ralox is better for gyno, Torem is better for PCT/HPTA starting and Clomid is better for pretending to be a woman.

 

[jbryand101b]

lol, pretending to be a woman. nice. but, with that said, i have to note, i dont get the emotional stuff with clomid. i have a short temper all the time, doesn't really matter what part of the cycle im on.

today I got mad at a city i was in because there was no auto parts store on the main road. ridiculous.

 

[Sklander]

I can confirm that hdrol is extremely mild in it's side effects and gives great, steady gains. A run of it at 6wks was great... I ran it latest along with some SARMS ans have seen wonderful results. Kept gains *esp. strength wow* and looking to get bloods to get on an AM run asap.

Also, TOREM is wonderful. I love the stuff compared to clomid and nolva... it just blows them out of the water and it literally made my nuts hurt from hanging so low after 3 and a half weeks or so into PCT... its when you know you can stop... lol

 

[HereToStudy]

I can confirm that hdrol is extremely mild in it's side effects and gives great, steady gains. A run of it at 6wks was great... I ran it latest along with some SARMS ans have seen wonderful results. Kept gains *esp. strength wow* and looking to get bloods to get on an AM run asap.

Also, TOREM is wonderful. I love the stuff compared to clomid and nolva... it just blows them out of the water and it literally made my nuts hurt from hanging so low after 3 and a half weeks or so into PCT... its when you know you can stop... lol

I really wish I used Torem for this PCT over Clomid, but I already had the clomid. Meh, lesson learned.

As for the emotional sides of Clomid, I do find they are merely a higher dose thing. I dose moderately, and have never had that side.

 

[monstermash]

I can confirm that hdrol is extremely mild in it's side effects and gives great, steady gains. A run of it at 6wks was great... I ran it latest along with some SARMS ans have seen wonderful results. Kept gains *esp. strength wow* and looking to get bloods to get on an AM run asap.

Also, TOREM is wonderful. I love the stuff compared to clomid and nolva... it just blows them out of the water and it literally made my nuts hurt from hanging so low after 3 and a half weeks or so into PCT... its when you know you can stop... lol

Damn, wish I had looked this up before grabbing a bunch of nolva and clomid...

But worth noting that Clomid+DAA was the easiest PCT I've ever experienced. So... if Torem is that much better I'll be buying some asap and selling off my clomid.

What was the dosing protocol for the "nuts hang so low they hurt" PCT?

 

[BigBlackGuy]

Damn, wish I had looked this up before grabbing a bunch of nolva and clomid...

But worth noting that Clomid+DAA was the easiest PCT I've ever experienced. So... if Torem is that much better I'll be buying some asap and selling off my clomid.

What was the dosing protocol for the "nuts hang so low they hurt" PCT?

For me it was Sustain Alpha topical + TCF-1 + Torem at standard doses (120/90/60/60)). It took me a few minutes to find the proper way to sit in a chair without crushing my enormous balls.

 

[BigBlackGuy]

Damn, wish I had looked this up before grabbing a bunch of nolva and clomid...

But worth noting that Clomid+DAA was the easiest PCT I've ever experienced. So... if Torem is that much better I'll be buying some asap and selling off my clomid.

What was the dosing protocol for the "nuts hang so low they hurt" PCT?

Torem is also usually a bit more expensive. But it's well worth it.

 

[sking6464]

Torem is also usually a bit more expensive. But it's well worth it.

meh, dragon is really well priced......similar to nolva n clomid....its a no brainer imo.....its the rx tabs that are not so easy to get, and/or afford.....as opposed to clomid n stinky nolva

 

[Royd The Noyd]

I really think Nolva is out of style, officially. Or it should be. Ralox is better for gyno, Torem is better for PCT/HPTA starting and Clomid is better for pretending to be a woman.

O'rlly....tamox > torem

From Ergo:

Nolvadex best T-booster of the SERMS

You’ve just taken a course of steroids and are looking for something to normalise your testosterone level. You can’t make up your mind between good old nolvadex, alias tamoxifen, and its cousins raloxifene and toremifene. Greek researchers have published the results of a study in Fertility & Sterility which suggests that tamoxifen is the best choice.

Tamoxifen, raloxifene and toremifene are SERMs: they attach themselves to the receptor for estradiol but don’t start up the processes that usually follow after estradiol has attached itself to its receptor. That’s why doctors use SERMS against tumours whose growth is stimulated by female hormones.


Chemical athletes use SERMs because they raise the testosterone level. One of the ways that the body monitors its own production of sex hormones is by keeping an eye on the concentration of estradiol in the blood. If it gets too high then sex hormone production is reduced – including the production of testosterone. Because the control mechanisms make use of estradiol receptors, SERMs crank up testosterone production. That’s why chemical athletes use substances like tamoxifen after taking a course of steroids.

The Greek researchers did a trial with just under three hundred infertile men, whose sperm count was low and most of whom had low levels of testosterone production. The researchers gave the men either 20 mg tamoxifen, 60 mg toremifene or 60 mg raloxifene daily for three months. The table below shows what happened to the men’s LH, FSH and testosterone levels.

Raloxifene has little effect on the testosterone level, so it’s not an interesting candidate for a Post Cycle Therapy supplement. Toremifene is somewhat better, but doesn’t perform as well as tamoxifen, and it loses its maximum effect after two months as well.

To complete the story we’ve added the table below, which shows the effect of the three on sperm cells. Once again, raloxifene performs less well than tamoxifen and toremifene.

The researchers suspect that the two more effective SERMs not only work through the body’s hormonal thermostat, thereby inducing the pituitary gland to make more messenger hormones [which in turn get the testes to produce more testosterone]. They think that tamoxifen and toremifene also have a direct effect on the testosterone producing cells.

Source:
Fertil Steril. 2009 Apr;91(4 Suppl):1427-30.

 

[xGenericx]

Both torem and tamoxifen seemed to produce decent results from that study. Test levels went from low normal to high normal in a month. Interesting study.

 

[ryansm]

O'rlly....tamox > torem

From Ergo:

From personal experience it doesn't

 

[sking6464]

From personal experience it doesn't

x1000

 

[mattrag]

On day 3 of Torem and I must say there are no emotional sides as of yet.

btw, coming off AH/AL

 

[HereToStudy]

On day 3 of Torem and I must say there are no emotional sides as of yet.

btw, coming off AH/AL

Nice. How was the cycle?

 

[Sklander]

I did:

day1 140mg
day 2, 3 120mg
day 4-7 90mg
day 8-21 60mg

It is usually at this point that my nuts are in need of some attention as one could say I'm "long ball Larry" from Curbed... If I still feel the need to continue after that I keep it at 60 for another few days then taper off very slowly with 30mg ed... then eod... Torem has worked great for me.

 

[mattrag]

Nice. How was the cycle?

Strength was great, lost about 1.5lbs and recomped well. Though I am no where near my goal I shaved off a good 1% bf. My new log is my PCT and soon will be updated with pix

 

[Royd The Noyd]

From personal experience it doesn't

Can you post bloodwork from pre, during, and post both your nolva, and your torem cycle? Thx

 

[ryansm]

Can you post bloodwork from pre, during, and post both your nolva, and your torem cycle? Thx

Actually I can, just have to dig up the old Nolva blood work. I do know off the the top of my head that nolva caused additional raises to my LFT's

 

[Royd The Noyd]

Actually I can, just have to dig up the old Nolva blood work. I do know off the the top of my head that nolva caused additional raises to my LFT's

Great would love to see it as well as how you dosed each one and whether you used pharm grade or research site chems.

Also anything else you ran during the pct, as well as the steroid used each cycle.

 

[Bry17]

O'rlly....tamox > torem

From Ergo:

Thankyou for posting that. I get sick of the "torem is greater than any serm ever existed" bs. Nolva has years and years of research backing it up as an antagonist in breast tissue/cancer tissue as well as restoring fertility in humans. I would like to see some bloodwork for the "torem is > than tamox" belief.

 

[BigBlackGuy]

O'rlly....tamox > torem

From Ergo:

Nice post! I wish they had used the standard 120mg (or even 90mg) torem dosing. But 60mg is good too

 

[BigBlackGuy]

bumping this up, obviously so more members can take a look

 

[flightposite]

Interesting debate. I have never used tor but I always hear good things.

 

[Gym4Life]

I'm sorry but you lot have ruined this thread I expected to see lots of reviews on androseries compared to other phs but you've turned this into a pct topic sigh 3 pages of junk

 

[jbryand101b]

im commin up on ending the first week of my andromass log, so if you want to see what it does to a person on it in two weeks, check it out next week.

i plan on having beg/mid/end photos. i was going to do weakly, but that'd be too much of me for everyone to handle. :lol:

 

[BigBlackGuy]

im commin up on ending the first week of my andromass log, so if you want to see what it does to a person on it in two weeks, check it out next week.

i plan on having beg/mid/end photos. i was going to do weakly, but that'd be too much of me for everyone to handle. :lol:

haha nice man, glad to see the log is coming along nicely

 

[jbryand101b]

it is going niceley.