Help with PCT for Complete Nutrition stack

Virgil1069

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Greetings,
let me start by saying, I know, I know - screw Complete Nutrition and methylated PHs, but I bought a stack from them and now am coming to you guys hoping for some help. (Just to explain, I stopped by the store while my wife was shoe shopping at our last stop of a road trip to the US. I was looking for a test booster to take back to Canada with me as we get screwed on our selection up here).
Anyway, the rep never mislead me in anyway and I understood what a PH was but I decided to go ahead and buy the stack as I won't be back in the US for a while, have been looking for a test kickstart and had some money to spend.
About me: 33 years old, 5'11", 170lbs, 8-9%bf. been training off and on for 10 years, but religiously for 2 years. I know what I am in doing in the weight room and my diet is right. My last blood work showed high cholestrol (got a script for Crestor which I will not be using, but that is a topic for a different day) and my test was on the very lowest end of normal.
I currently take multi (Animal Pak), pre-workout (NO-Xplode), creatine (Cellmass), BCAA (Xtend), Omega-3. I also have ZMA and Animal Stak collecting dust.
My goal is to increase lean muscle mass. I am satisfied with my physique, but feel I have hit a plateau and test may be my issue, so now that my diet and training are right I would like to get a little bigger quickly.
About the stack:
Here is what they recommended:
Week 1 and 2
5-Deca-Zol, 1 morning and 1 night
each cap contains:
2a, 17a-dimethyl-5a-androst-3-one-17b-ol 15mg
4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1, 4-diene-3-17b-diol 12.5mg
Week 3 and 4
5-deca-zol, 1 morning and 1 night
Super-Nova, 1 morning and 2 night
each cap contains:
2a, 17a-dimethyl-5a-androst-3-one-17b-ol 10mg
6,7 dyhydroxybergamottin, Vanadyl, Bioperine 22.5mg
Week 5 and 6
Super-Nova, 1 morning and 2 night
Epi-cynodrone, 1 morning and 1 night
each cap contains:
2-cyano-17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-androst-3-one 10 mg
2a, 3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol 10 mg
6,7 dyhydroxybergamottin, Vanadyl, Bioperine 22.5mg
Week 7 and 8
Epi-cynodrone, 1 morning and 1 night
Week 9 and 10
Optimizer, 1 morning and 1 night
each cap contains:
Anti-estrogen blend 125 mg
Chrysin (5,7-dihydroxyflavone), Calcium D-Glutarate
Liver detoxifying blend 75mg
Milk thistle, Dandelion
Prostate Support Blend 55mg
Saw Palmetto, Pygeum extract
6-estro-pct, 1 morning and 1 night
each cap contains:
6-bromodione 75mg
4,7-dihydroxyisoflavone, diindolylmethane, 6,7-dihydroxybergamottin (blend) 175mg
white button mushroom extract 175mg

He stated I should also take the Optimizer if I ever drink alcohol, which I am trying to avoid to maximize my gains...but it is summer and I am Canadian so it will happen.
I will be drinking as much water as I can throughout this cycle.

My concerns:
what else should I add for liver toxicity?
Should I be taking a test booster now, or wait until after week 8?
Is this PCT enough?
My biggest concern:
what about a SERM? I workout in my home gym, so I don't have gym friends that might be able to hook me up. My family doc is a little old man and I don't think he will give me a prescription, but I could ask. Anyone have a recommended online retailer? I am sure getting it across the border will be a problem.


I know I am new here and there is a lot of info to read through, which I have been doing. However, I did not find anything that answered my specific stack, so please at least try to refrain from too much lecturing.

I really appreciate any help/advice you guys can give!

Thanks,
Virgil1069
 
bill86

bill86

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so, admittedly, im not the most knowledgeable person with regard to ph's nor have i ever used them, but wtf did this guy sell you?? for a FIRST cycle? i know 5-deca-zol is a superdrol and halodrol stack, which would be incredibly harsh for a first cycle (or any cycle, haha), but what is this epi/supernova? 3-4 methyls at once?

perhaps im wrong, because i have no idea what that supernova is, and i assume the other is an epistane clone, which is a TON of stuff to be taking,especially as your first cycle and for someone who was 'looking for a test booster'

yet another reason why i cant stand the people at complete nutrition, they dont care whatsoever about peoples health or giving them accurate information. all they want to do is push their products on people

BUT, 1. if you dont know what this stuff is and havent researched it...dont put it into your body....
2.if youre considering drinking on something like this, id ask your doctor if hes got an extra liver lined up for you.
3. if you cant get a serm for even ONE of these compounds being ran solo, things probably arent going to workout very well pct-wise
4. with high cholesterol, this stack seems like a death sentence.


but again....maybe someone with more knowledge than i can help you out better.... but, my rule of thumb, stay away from complete nutrition and the losers that work there with their little 'try this 5-deca-zol, it doesnt have sides.... unless you dont want to get big' routine
 
bill86

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i kind of just glanced at it the first time...so supernova has superdrol in it too?! i looked up the others, and man, thats a ****load of ****
 

Virgil1069

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Hi Bill86, thanks for your replies.
to answer some of the questions/concerns you posed:
1. I know what it is in it after online research, and will be putting it in my body, but I am looking for help to minimize sides. Also, was wondering if I should spread this out in to 2 or 3 cycles over a longer time period
2. extra liver. point taken. drinks are out
3. so a SERM is essential. seems to be what I have been reading everywhere as well...so how to get it? Is the doctor my best or can anyone (specifically from Canada) recommend an online retailer?
4. high cholesterol does not equal increased risk of heart disease. It does equal an opportunity to sell a drug that does not decrease risk of heart disease. I have done the research on this. like, I said in the original post, this is a topic for another day.

I appreciate the input, but am still looking for more advice on getting a SERM and what people think of their optimizer and PCT. what else should I add to their PCT and when should I start taking each the Optimizer and PCT
 
jbryand101b

jbryand101b

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man, uh, so what is your question in 3 sentances or less?
 
bill86

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again, im not expert on pro hormones.... but

1. i DEFINITELY would not stack all these together as a first ph run... as a matter of fact... i wouldnt even take the 5-deca-zol OR supernova by itself as first run since they both have superdrol in them.... much less would i take them together.
2. i think youre going to see some serious sides even with cycle supports supps if you were to take all these together... again, especially as a first cycle... but maybe im wrong. basic support supps would be milk thistle, saw palmetto, hawthorn berry, etc.... but you could just get them all in something like 'cycle support' or 'cycle assist'.
3. i really cant tell you were to get a serm because thats one of the biggest reasons (other than just being a scared bitch about it, haha) that ive never ran a cycle. APPARENTLY buying/selling them isnt illegal if its for research purposes, but its illegal to buy them for personal consumption... im starting law school next month, and really, i just dont want to do anything to screw that up... especially over some damn steroids.. and ive heard stories of people getting in trouble ordering serms (not sure how true they are) which, im pretty sure carries a stiff penalty (i know steroids are classified the same as narcotics, not sure about serms).
- i HIGHLY doubt your doctor will prescribe you a serm so you can take prohormones, but who knows
- the legality of it may also be a BIGGER issue if youre ordering online from a company in america... then it gets into the whole thing with customs and all



bottom line... if i were you, i wouldnt take them (well, at least not the 5-deca and supernova), but its up to you.... if you do take them without a serm, you will shut down HARD and it will take a while for your body to return to normal. im sure your liver and test will return to normal after a while, but youll probably lose all your gains, and see some gyno. THEIR PCT ALONE WILL NOT CUT IT WITH SUCH A HARSH CYCLE OF ANY OF THOSE COMPOUNDS BY THEMSELVES, LET ALONE STACKED (for emphasis, haha)....

and im not trying to preach, but i dont think you should be so naive about cholesterol with regards to ph's/aas. a lot of people will tell you that does more damage in the long run than what they do to your liver.


hopefully someone more educated than i on this subject can shed some light on it.
 

Virgil1069

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man, uh, so what is your question in 3 sentances or less?
What is my best way to get a SERM and which one?
Is the PCT i bought enough? If not, what do you suggest?
Is their Optimizer enough and when should I start taking this?

4 sentences - close enough, I hope?

Thanks in advance for your help
 
jbryand101b

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well, you got 3 cycles in each bottle.

take the epi one @ rec dosage 4 your cycle.

optimizer save 4 pct.

spending time on google looking for legit research chem sources to find your serm.

if you cant find one, email me for an otc pct plan.----v
 
api27

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I am brand new to PH's, but have been doing my research as I have friends at CN as well, and they hooked me up with a stack of 5-deca (yet to take it though, probly won't take it...).

Here is what I have found out from hours of research: the MAX mg/day of superdrol is 30 mg, also you're not supposed to stack it with another methyl. As you know 5-deca-zol is 2 methyls stacked together (hd+sd). But then- they want you to take Supernova as well? Supernova IS superdrol. So now (at 3 pills supernova a day + 2 pills 5-deca a day) you're at 60 MG OF SUPERDROL A DAY, plus 25 mg a day of Halodrol. Pretty sure this could put you in the hospital- the guys on here that know more than me will probly back this up.

Here's another thing. The minimum dosage of Halodrol when being stacked is 50-100 mg, so at 25mg/day you're not even getting enough of it, but remember it's not supposed to be stacked with another methyl in the first place. I really like weeks 5 and 6 of this cycle- epi-cynodrone (which they gave to me as well), is epistane and cynostane, 2 more methyls. So now you're stacking 4 METHYLS, when you're not even supposed to stack 2. Also you're not supposed to cycle longer than 4 weeks! They want you to go 8? And from everything I've read the 6-estro and 3-test-oxo products they sell for pct will not suffice, you need to get a SERM like Nolvadex or Clomid.

Whatever cycle you do, you'll want to take optimizers for liver and prostate the whole way through not just at the end. 2 gallons of water a day, and you'll want something for your cholesterol as well, since it will skyrocket. All this is funny coming from me, cause I sound like an expert, but I have never done a cycle before: I learned all this from research (mostly on this site, and 1 other which is awesome if you want to PM me). Do more research before taking anything and don't listen to their stack advice. Guys also if any of my advice in this post is incorrect (I doubt it since I have been doing so much reading), feel free to correct me...
 

Virgil1069

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Folks
I appreciate all the information.
After much research and consideration I am going to run the Epi-Cynodrone by itself, 1 morning and 1 afternoon for a month.
I am going to leave the 5DZ and SuperNova on the shelf for now. I will consider them at some point in the future if the Epi goes well, but won't be stacking them together.
I have ordered a SERM (Torem) and will wait for it to arrive before starting the Epi.
I have a Liver DTox from Allmax I will be taking (NAC, milk thistle and others), hawthorn berry, garlic extract and green tea extract.
I also have a anti-aromatase - Arimidex HD.
Any other suggestions/requirements?
Thanks a bunch! - you guys are life savers!
 

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