10 mg vs 20 mg Superdrol?

[anemoneman]

I am trying to use an OTC PCT after a 3-4 week Superdrol run, using Post Cycle Support and DAA. However I do have Nolva on hand, I just don't want to use it due to the rebound gyno I've heard of.

Anyway, will upping 10/10/10 to 10-20/20/20 negate any chance of my OTC PCT being enough? Again, I do have Nolva; I would just like to do as much as possible to not have to take it.

 

[mball52]

use it. your nuts will thank you.

 

[jbryand101b]

to answer your question, yes going from 10mg to 20mg with superdrol, will make a big difference in the level of supression.

I believe you can get away with an otc pct from using 10mg e/d of superdrol with minimal to zero sides, but not with 20

 

[mattrag]

Keep the dosage low to avoid the harsh sides.

 

[MidwestBeast]

Play with fire and you're bound to get burned.

If you are that opposed to a SERM based PCT, then I'd stay away from SD in the first place.

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

I am trying to use an OTC PCT after a 3-4 week Superdrol run, using Post Cycle Support and DAA. However I do have Nolva on hand, I just don't want to use it due to the rebound gyno I've heard of.

Anyway, will upping 10/10/10 to 10-20/20/20 negate any chance of my OTC PCT being enough? Again, I do have Nolva; I would just like to do as much as possible to not have to take it.

your not gonna get any rebound gyno from nolva. Your much more likely to get rebound estro sides with clomid as your serm, not nolva.

 

[jbryand101b]

your not gonna get any rebound gyno from nolva. Your much more likely to get rebound estro sides with clomid as your serm, not nolva.

na, i dont think so. i run some pretty crazy cycles and i use comid, i only got gyno post cycle after nolva pct's, but i think it may be because the nolva was fake, not sure, i'll have to try my new source's nolva and see.

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

na, i dont think so. i run some pretty crazy cycles and i use comid, i only got gyno post cycle after nolva pct's, but i think it may be because the nolva was fake, not sure, i'll have to try my new source's nolva and see.

I don't think you are likely to get it from EITHER of them honestly. But I've had labs done after using both before, and the estro is higher with clomid than it is with nolva for me. Which makes some sense, since clomid is somewhat both anti estrogenic as well as a slight estrogen antagonist.

The sticky nathan posted over in the need2 section has a specific portion dedicated to nolva vs clomid for pct, heres a link to the exact post:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/needtobuildmuscle-mrsupps/160738-taking-steroids-101-a.html#post2578175

Outside of being an absolutely FANTASTIC read, it details a bit on the pro's and cons of both

 

[jbryand101b]

an estrogen receptor antagonist means it binds to the estrogen receptor, but does not interact with it, which is why it is a selective estrogen modulator. in that sense, both clomid, nolvadex, raloxifene, torem are all exactly the same, and are serms and are estrogen receptor antagonist.

then you also have to realize nolvadex is a tissue specific serm, where clomid binds to all the estrogen receptors in the body, if estrogen is higher with clomid than nolva, it is because the clomid is working better than the nolvadex to get your testosterone production back into full swing.

I would rather have a serm that is creating more test, and also blocks all the er's, leaving free estrogen to float around and be metabolized, than a serm that doesn't do raise test as well, and only bind specifically to the tissue.

I havn't read the article, but I would imagine the word antagonist among other scientific words, have been misunderstood.

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

Good info jb, and thats most definitely a possibility. Clomid always did bounce me back better than nolva. I just hate the emotional sides from it. Stuff makes me act like a 15yr old girl at a justin beiber concert...

 

[MidwestBeast]

Good info jb, and thats most definitely a possibility. Clomid always did bounce me back better than nolva. I just hate the emotional sides from it. Stuff makes me act like a 15yr old girl at a justin beiber concert...

lol :laugh2:

This just makes me think of the South Park episode where Kenny's girlfriend and him go to the Jonas Brothers concert.

 

[jbryand101b]

yea, i've read alot about that, im lucky enough to not get those. i get more moody on cycle than post.

 

[illriginalize]

So what's the verdict on PCT for SD? People are seriously making this more confusing than it needs to be about Nolva and Clomid PCT for SD.

I've purchased a bottle of EPG Dianavar, have DAA on hand, have Advanced PCT by Anabolic Xtreme, and have Inhibit-E by SNS.

Some people are saying that Advanced PCT will work if doing a pulse SD @ 15mg EOD for 4 weeks.

Others are saying you need to add Post Cycle Support by AI Sports to the Advanced PCT to have a good PCT. Others are saying that a OTC PCT is just a waste of money to begin with and would definitely not work with SD, especially if you try to push SD to 30mg.

Oh then recently I read that you should add Letrozole or Anastrozole to the SD cycle so that you can use either PCS or APCT as a good enough PCT for a SD cycle.

So.. can someone with actual experience, specifically with EPG's Dianavar (Superdrol), please tell me what is the proper PCT... did I waste money already on APCT? Do I need to purchase Letrozole or Anastrozole? Do I need a SERM and if so.. what has been used successfully @ what dosage?


I've seen people claim to use Clomid on something like 100/100/50/50 and or Nolva 40/40/20/20..

Is using both overkill? And if I'm doing a pulse where the first 3 weeks will be @ 15mg and the 4th @ 30mg.. do I really need both SERMs? Or a SERM at all?

 

[Fr0st]

Hey man. People recommend serms way too much in general BUT you should always have one for SD even if running low dose like me (5mg). You never know with such a strong compound.

So even if you decide to pulse, have a SERM just in case. And IMO it seems that torem is the new champ for SERMs. There is a highly reputable site that sells it for as low as $40.

Hopefully this answers everything. If not, ask away or PM me.

 

[Fr0st]

I'm regards to AIs, google UnrealMachine's guide to superdrol

 

[illriginalize]

Hey man. People recommend serms way too much in general BUT you should always have one for SD even if running low dose like me (5mg). You never know with such a strong compound.

So even if you decide to pulse, have a SERM just in case. And IMO it seems that torem is the new champ for SERMs. There is a highly reputable site that sells it for as low as $40.

Hopefully this answers everything. If not, ask away or PM me.

Ya decided SERM is the only way to go. I don't want to take any chances and I sure as heck like to make sure I have everything planned out and all gear on hand before even starting.

I'm regards to AIs, google UnrealMachine's guide to superdrol

Thanks for the heads up.. gonna check it out in a few minutes.

 

[woodbear]

My friend who pulsed sd 20mg 3 on 4off, has finished his last dose wedensday this week. Definitly gets a testo rebound during the off days. He hit a new max weight, today, 4days after his last dose and feels great. 7lbs gained. Also lowered bf and increased vascularity. Note, he went off creatine for these 4 weeks, and started with that and daa now.
he used milk thislte during. And had a few drinks every saturday.. That was the main reason for the 3on 4 off.. Weekends free from sd.

After seeing his great results with just sd pulsed, for just 3,5 weeks.... Compared to my havoc cycle. He ate little food, and worked, while i ate everything that was not bolted down... He gained more, and does definitly need no pct. 4 days after, and gaining must be a good sign. He has a bp measure tool too. Bp went up very little for both of us, but a little.

So my next cycle will be sd pulsed for 3-4weeks the same way. I ll try a month or so after pct is finished.

I ll try to get him to get blood work after a few weeks too see.

 

[Colochine]

My friend who pulsed sd 20mg 3 on 4off, has finished his last dose wedensday this week. Definitly gets a testo rebound during the off days. He hit a new max weight, today, 4days after his last dose and feels great. 7lbs gained. Also lowered bf and increased vascularity. Note, he went off creatine for these 4 weeks, and started with that and daa now.
he used milk thislte during. And had a few drinks every saturday.. That was the main reason for the 3on 4 off.. Weekends free from sd.

After seeing his great results with just sd pulsed, for just 3,5 weeks.... Compared to my havoc cycle. He ate little food, and worked, while i ate everything that was not bolted down... He gained more, and does definitly need no pct. 4 days after, and gaining must be a good sign. He has a bp measure tool too. Bp went up very little for both of us, but a little.

So my next cycle will be sd pulsed for 3-4weeks the same way. I ll try a month or so after pct is finished.

I ll try to get him to get blood work after a few weeks too see.

Interesting.

 

[luclyluciano]

I dose 10 mgs of Sd on workout days only. i see no need sor 20 mgs. Nice drawn out keepable gains, Nice testosterone rebound effect on off days. Use triazole, Macca, fenugreek, 5 grams per day each on my off days and PCT plus I taper out low dose Formestane for PCT.

 

[illriginalize]

My friend who pulsed sd 20mg 3 on 4off, has finished his last dose wedensday this week. Definitly gets a testo rebound during the off days. He hit a new max weight, today, 4days after his last dose and feels great. 7lbs gained. Also lowered bf and increased vascularity. Note, he went off creatine for these 4 weeks, and started with that and daa now.
he used milk thislte during. And had a few drinks every saturday.. That was the main reason for the 3on 4 off.. Weekends free from sd.

After seeing his great results with just sd pulsed, for just 3,5 weeks.... Compared to my havoc cycle. He ate little food, and worked, while i ate everything that was not bolted down... He gained more, and does definitly need no pct. 4 days after, and gaining must be a good sign. He has a bp measure tool too. Bp went up very little for both of us, but a little.

So my next cycle will be sd pulsed for 3-4weeks the same way. I ll try a month or so after pct is finished.

I ll try to get him to get blood work after a few weeks too see.

Any reason to get off of creatine while on SD? I'm planning to keep my creatine intake during SD.

 

[Fr0st]

where are all of these SD pulsers coming from? i know it used to be really popular, but now people are saying its really harsh on the body.... very confused

 

[illriginalize]

where are all of these SD pulsers coming from? i know it used to be really popular, but now people are saying its really harsh on the body.... very confused

Pulsing is more harsh? Only reason why I want to pulse it.. is to slow the size progress. I don't want to blow up in three weeks to have co-workers ask the obvious question <_<;

If pulsing is no good.. then I'll just run a 15mg cycle for 3 weeks.

 

[Fr0st]

Pulsing is more harsh? Only reason why I want to pulse it.. is to slow the size progress. I don't want to blow up in three weeks to have co-workers ask the obvious question <_<;

If pulsing is no good.. then I'll just run a 15mg cycle for 3 weeks.

don't take my word as gospel. believe me, i thought about doing a MWF pulse at 15mg, but I have read so many mixed reviews on pulsing... I just don't know what to think.

 

[woodbear]

As said , friend pulsed 3on 4off, that worked fine, he feels better /hornier after than before, i ll let you know how he feels in a few weeks, but so far it seems like he sufferd no sides or shutdown. I think the 2-3on per week is much better than eod. You get a bigger boost, and longer time to rebound. He says he definitly felt the rebound.
A little edit from my previous post. His first week was 10mg eod, that he felt nothing from, so he changed to the other pulse type.

 

[jbryand101b]

Yea messing your hormonal balance up repeatedly for weeks and weeks is a good thing..... I must of missed that part of the history of aas usage.Just run 10mg each day, or choose something like hdrol to run at 50mg-75mg for 6 weeks.

 

[woodbear]

Well, how messed up will you be if you do this 1-2 times a year for 3-4weeks? Vs risking totalt htpa shutdown. A friend of mine is amedicalstudent, with focus on pharma.he says there are a lot of risks with aas most people dont consider, and seems very much missing from the broscience, like it does not only screw with your htpa, but also your entire digestive system too, since the same area of the brain controls alot more , and is affected too.
Your hormones are never stable, they fluctuate every day. Like some days one might be horny as hell, others, a sressful day might make it hard to even get an erection while jerking off.
Just like women, and birthcontrol...
But im new to this... But in my head some light usage of ass for some extra gains, 1-2 times per year is better than goin all out, especially for a longer time. I know plenty of roid users with deca dicks...

 

[flightposite]

I believe pulsing has been used in the medical field unless I'm mistaken. So it must have some merit. Also I believe it has been used on children. Again unless I'm mistaken. And the east Germans had success with something similar to a pulse.

 

[Fr0st]

I believe pulsing has been used in the medical field unless I'm mistaken. So it must have some merit. Also I believe it has been used on children. Again unless I'm mistaken. And the east Germans had success with something similar to a pulse.

Any sources to what you are talking about?...

 

[Machwon1]

Haha woodbear wrote he uses a little "ass" for gains....

 

[jbryand101b]

Well, how messed up will you be if you do this 1-2 times a year for 3-4weeks? Vs risking totalt htpa shutdown. A friend of mine is amedicalstudent, with focus on pharma.he says there are a lot of risks with aas most people dont consider, and seems very much missing from the broscience, like it does not only screw with your htpa, but also your entire digestive system too, since the same area of the brain controls alot more , and is affected too.
Your hormones are never stable, they fluctuate every day. Like some days one might be horny as hell, others, a sressful day might make it hard to even get an erection while jerking off.
Just like women, and birthcontrol...
But im new to this... But in my head some light usage of ass for some extra gains, 1-2 times per year is better than goin all out, especially for a longer time. I know plenty of roid users with deca dicks...

anyone who uses steroids should know hormonal disruption is only one of the side effects of aas usage. so im not sure why you are saying this.
and i dont think your friend understands, or knows what he is talking about.

your hormones fluctuate, yes, but not because you are inconsitintly introducing supraphysiological dosages of androgens into your system.

using aas responsibly will cause little risk of side effects.

example, superdrol @ 5-10mg e/d for 4-6 weeks will provide better gains and most likely just as few sides as pulsing at w/e dosage, and probably less sides.

i havn't seen any studies done on pulsing steroids. i have seen studies done on using steroids at physiological/low dosages.

but if pulsing makes you think you are doing something better, and overall you feel better for thinking that, by all means, go for it.

 

[illriginalize]

anyone who uses steroids should know hormonal disruption is only one of the side effects of aas usage. so im not sure why you are saying this.
and i dont think your friend understands, or knows what he is talking about.

your hormones fluctuate, yes, but not because you are inconsitintly introducing supraphysiological dosages of androgens into your system.

using aas responsibly will cause little risk of side effects.

example, superdrol @ 5-10mg e/d for 4-6 weeks will provide better gains and most likely just as few sides as pulsing at w/e dosage, and probably less sides.

i havn't seen any studies done on pulsing steroids. i have seen studies done on using steroids at physiological/low dosages.

but if pulsing makes you think you are doing something better, and overall you feel better for thinking that, by all means, go for it.

Pulsed Cycle (Read Dr. D's guide, "How to Pulse Orals")

Superdrol is an ideal compound for pulsing because it's strong and has a short half life (~6 hours). Recall that pulsing is meant to extend cycle duration by dosing only 3-4x a week, in doing so, shutdown and sides are greatly mitigated. I feel that pulsing with SD 3x a week with DC training is probably one of the best ways to use it.

With a pulsed cycle, the dose should be 20-30mg, as a pulse should use a slightly higher than normal dose. 10mg pre-workout and 10 post-workout or 20 pre-workout and 10 post-workout. You should start at 10, see if you feel it, move to 20, gauge the strength, and run most of the cycle at 20-30. I would personally lean towards 30mg 3x a week or 20mg 4x a week. This should depend on YOUR response though!

Pulsing allows the duration to be extended. This is very nice with Superdrol because the faster gains come, the more difficult they are to keep, because your body takes time to adjust to maintaining more mass. Therefore I feel pulsed cycles result in a better retention of gains. 6 weeks should work very well here.

According to Unreal's SD guide.

 

[jbryand101b]

im sure unreal knows how i feel about pulsing. i've personally never seen him say he has pulsed. why? im sure he has his reasons. but i would say it is because he knows pulsing sucks.

 

[luclyluciano]

im sure unreal knows how i feel about pulsing. i've personally never seen him say he has pulsed. why? im sure he has his reasons. but i would say it is because he knows pulsing sucks.

That's funny. I was sure Unreal has posted quite highly on pulsing. I don't feel like scanning all his threads to prove this but you say this is because he feels pulsing "sucks"?KllIsn't this a bit of a stretch on common sense?In addition, you ask for studies proving playing with hormones in your system on and off are safer than straight cycles. I think the reverse also needs to asked. Where are the studies that show whacking your system with large doses of methyls and steroids then followed up with the same amount of time with More drugs aka serms is better than a pulse method.I am sure if we look real hard we will find both methods where users show panels indicating they recovered but why criticize one over the other when we all know neither are GOOD for your health?The pluses for pulsing have been clearly stated by those that do not feel pulsing "sucks" as you say. No need to repeat them. I personally prefer low dose pulsing with something strong like Superdrol. So where are the studies definitely proving that the all out onslaught is better than the trickle effect? I have felt the short-term euphoria of temporarily ballooning up with unsustainable gains then deluding myself into thinking I kept 50% of the gains when the truth is non of us keep any gains past our genetic limits over time.

 

[jbryand101b]

there aren't any studies because it is something that isn't worth studying.

like i said, if you believe it, and that makes you feel better, and in doing so leads to you lifting harder, getting better results, who am i to tell you you're doing it wrong.

PA said it best in my opinion:

take them whatever way makes you feel good from a psychological standpoint. that is, if you can convince your self that taking more on a workout day is helping you will be happier and workout harder.
or if tapering makes you feel more confident then do that.
bottom line is that i dont think its gonna make a goddam difference what you do. Its your perception of what it might do that might make a difference

I am convinced pulsing has no benifit that can not be accomplished by adjusting the dosage accordingly.

if I cared to make you believe how i do, I would go to experts on the subject of aas, and ask for the specific details that are outside my knowledge base, but i dont. you can go ask real experts in the field of aas though if you want to.

 

[illriginalize]

Hm.. I guess for my first round of SD I'll just low dose it. I don't mind if I only gain a solid 5~10lbs of LBM vs 20lbs within 3 weeks.

 

[fightbackhxc]

If you aren't using a serm stick to around 5-10mg. Any higher I wouldn't use an OTC PCT.

 

[flightposite]

Any sources to what you are talking about?...

No sorry not that I'm aware of. Although it's easy enough to find the east Germans protocol if you search. Try Searching east German track and field steroid protocol or something along those lines.

 

[Machwon1]

Wonder if 10mg of sd for 5 weeks could put on 8 solid pounds? Anyone think it could?

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

Wonder if 10mg of sd for 5 weeks could put on 8 solid pounds? Anyone think it could?

dude, are you still going on and on with SD questions??

 

[fightbackhxc]

Wonder if 10mg of sd for 5 weeks could put on 8 solid pounds? Anyone think it could?

lol for sure. Thats strongly underrated. I took 5/5/10/10 and gained 15.

 

[Machwon1]

Ya I started 10mg today... So I'm Done asking questions let you know

 

[illriginalize]

lol for sure. Thats strongly underrated. I took 5/5/10/10 and gained 15.

Wow.. and what I bought comes in 15mg (honestly the reason why I wanted to pulse it but with 6 hour half life.. it's probably just a bad idea all around)


Quick question (and maybe I should just do a simple search on the forum or even google for my answer) if these are 15mg.. should I even attempt splitting these in half, so I can take @ 5AM and another half @ 5PM. Or should I just take the full 15mg once a day.

If only once a day, I assume best within 4 hours prior to training, or does it even matter (in the morning, mid afternoon, pre-workout, before bed)?

 

[Mafesto31]

I've been running sd at 10mg for 4 weeks now and gained a good 12lbs so far. I feel fine except for nosebleeds and lower back pumps..and now my right nip has been bothering me for the past couple days.

 

[illriginalize]

I've been running sd at 10mg for 4 weeks now and gained a good 12lbs so far. I feel fine except for nosebleeds and lower back pumps..and now my right nip has been bothering me for the past couple days.

You should bump up the dose on support meds.. looks like high blood pressure, lack of potassium / taurine, and possibly a slight case of gyno? ;

 

[Machwon1]

Wow... 10mg and gained 12lbs.... And bad sides you have to be a great responder

 

[Mafesto31]

At 20-30mg all I had was sides with minimal mass gains. I'm thinking about starting some nolva tonight

 

[jbryand101b]

so in this thread we got a guy who saw nothing at 30mg of superdrol, and another guy who gained 12lbs and the worst sides you can get from sd and only using 10mg.

either some stuff is being left out, of sd is a very selective compound.
I can believe one of the situations, but the other i think is full of shiit, and im not saying which one, but which one do y'all think.....?

 

[woodbear]

i think it might also reflect on training and diet too, and how advanced the person is, and if there has been a layoff, meaning regaining previous size.

I`ve looked at tons of logs, and it looks like the persons with the most gains, are young people, how should have stayed natural many more years. I get a real kick out of seeing 20 year olds that even after a cycle, is still packing 14-15" arms.. (I have 16,8inch arms pumped at 5`4" before I tried havoc, and now I`m slowly closing in on 17,5" still not awsome, but atleast I gained a little.)
Offcourse they got great gains, they where gaining lots natural at the same time as getting the extras from the aas.

While some of the more advanced guys seem to gain less. already pushing their genetic potential, they gain less. Some exceptions offcourse.

height also plays into this, a guy who is 6`4" will usually pack on more size in terms of lbs, than a 5`4" guy, yet the small guy might look like gained more size due to the short height.

And offcourse, the quality of the product matters... but still weird not gaining hardly anything from 20-30 mg sd... my friend gained decent by pusling 20mg.. not much bigger in weight , but alot more defined, ie fat loss, and greater measurements...

My take from forum searching...

 

[Machwon1]

Hey...at 20-30mg I got ****... Ok jrbry... My story gets confused becusse it was awhile ago but all I know is I ran it for 4 weeks at 20-30mg and gained very little...gonna use sd again now that I'm alil more expericed....

 

[fightbackhxc]

Hey...at 20-30mg I got ****... Ok jrbry... My story gets confused becusse it was awhile ago but all I know is I ran it for 4 weeks at 20-30mg and gained very little...gonna use sd again now that I'm alil more expericed....

sounds bunk my man.