First Prohormone Cycle? Need educated opinions.

[kgeorge57]

I'm new to this forum.
But, I'm 18 and strongly considering running a PH cycle for the first time.
I have been lifting consistently for 2 1/2 years, seriously for a little over a year.
My gains in strength and size have become stagnant as of late so I'm going to start a PH cycle soon, as long as I can get the proper advice and stuff.

I've been researching this on and off for the last three months and I'm pretty sure I have adequate knowledge, but I do need some help/advice...

I'm 6', and my weight fluctuates from 174-177 as of now. I'm pretty lean, I'd say somewhere between 8-10% bf. Also, I do eat relatively healthy(caloric intake, protein intake, and all that jazz, so I'm not just a punk teenager), and I I lift 5 times a week.

I'm looking for significant size and strength gains while staying lean, so what ph/cycle assistance /liver assistance/PCT would you recommend??

And instead of telling me I'm a punk teenager who wants to gain mass quick, please give me the benefit of the doubt and just shoot me straight with what supplements you would recommend.

 

[massolic]

none bro, too young...please use creatine, gainers, food, other supps, not hormones........

 

[kom01]

What massolic basically means that you are still young and you have high levels of testosterone that can lead to good gains considering that you use proper supplementation, diet and training. It is advised that you hold off until you plateau before resorting to pro-hormones. However, if you are keen on using and don't want to listen to reason, stick to a mild ph like H-drol. However, you should do research before touching any pro-hormone.

 

[T50]

Sorry bro, but you're not ready to cycle yet. At your height and weight, you are nowhere near ready to juice. If you have plateaued, switch up your routine, eat 5000+ calories a day, and take creatine or something. Wait til your 21 man.

I suggest looking into Madcow's 5x5. I guarantee you will see gains with this program if you are eating enough and following it.

 

[on the run]

Sorry bro, but you're not ready to cycle yet. At your height and weight, you are nowhere near ready to juice. If you have plateaued, switch up your routine, eat 5000+ calories a day, and take creatine or something. Wait til your 21 man.

I suggest looking into Madcow's 5x5. I guarantee you will see gains with this program if you are eating enough and following it.

sorry but saying 'at your height and weight, you are nowhere near ready to juice', you don't know what he started at. maybe he started at 130lbs, in which case, he has already gained almost 50lbs naturally.. how much are you suggesting he gains naturally before he turns to anabolics? also suggesting he start eating 5000 calories when you have no idea what his metabolism is like/what his maintenance is etc etc is a fast track to turn him into a fat ass. Op ignore this whole post

you can NOT judge whether someone is ready to juice or not by their weight. not at all.. what you can judge it on is years/experience (even then this does nto necsarrily paint the whole picture) but most importantly, how much lbm you have gained since you started lifting.

OP what weight did you start at? you say you have been only lifting 'seriously' for one year, i gues by 'plateud' you mean your noob gains have stopped. you can probably gain another 10lbs naturally over the next few years if you lift hard, and then your gains will really slow. maybe then you will be ready, or maybe you decide you don't want to wait.. in which case there is plenty of info floating around for your first cycle. personally i would suggest skipping the crap ones like hdrol and start on a 4-6 week cycle of something decent

 

[Black Hat]

sorry but saying 'at your height and weight, you are nowhere near ready to juice', you don't know what he started at. maybe he started at 130lbs, in which case, he has already gained almost 50lbs naturally.. how much are you suggesting he gains naturally before he turns to anabolics? also suggesting he start eating 5000 calories when you have no idea what his metabolism is like/what his maintenance is etc etc is a fast track to turn him into a fat ass. Op ignore this whole post

you can NOT judge whether someone is ready to juice or not by their weight. not at all.. what you can judge it on is years/experience (even then this does nto necsarrily paint the whole picture) but most importantly, how much lbm you have gained since you started lifting.

OP what weight did you start at? you say you have been only lifting 'seriously' for one year, i gues by 'plateud' you mean your noob gains have stopped. you can probably gain another 10lbs naturally over the next few years if you lift hard, and then your gains will really slow. maybe then you will be ready, or maybe you decide you don't want to wait.. in which case there is plenty of info floating around for your first cycle. personally i would suggest skipping the crap ones like hdrol and start on a 4-6 week cycle of something decent

He's 6'0" and 177, even if he had 5% BF that's tiny for his height, he's nowhere near any natural limit etc., therefore he should keep going without PH/AAS.

If he truly has been training for almost 3 years, then I would say his diet or training is flawed in some way.

 

[DYEGYE]

I'm new to this forum.
But, I'm 18 and strongly considering running a PH cycle for the first time.
I have been lifting consistently for 2 1/2 years, seriously for a little over a year.
My gains in strength and size have become stagnant as of late so I'm going to start a PH cycle soon, as long as I can get the proper advice and stuff.

I've been researching this on and off for the last three months and I'm pretty sure I have adequate knowledge, but I do need some help/advice...

I'm 6', and my weight fluctuates from 174-177 as of now. I'm pretty lean, I'd say somewhere between 8-10% bf. Also, I do eat relatively healthy(caloric intake, protein intake, and all that jazz, so I'm not just a punk teenager), and I I lift 5 times a week.

I'm looking for significant size and strength gains while staying lean, so what ph/cycle assistance /liver assistance/PCT would you recommend??

And instead of telling me I'm a punk teenager who wants to gain mass quick, please give me the benefit of the doubt and just shoot me straight with what supplements you would recommend.

You said you've been lifting seriously for just over a year. Even if you were 27 and said that, a lot of guys on here would suggest you give it some more time just so you're more familiar with your body.

I'm not going to rag on you and tell you all the reasons you shouldn't do PH's yet, but let's just take a look at a couple things that we may be able to adjust:

Training- Have you adjusted your routine lately? What kind of program are you on, etc?

Nutrition- you said that you have a good grasp on how you should eat. If you gave us an honest look at what your daily habits look like, I'm sure we could help you make some adjustments to get you gaining again.

Supplements- What are you taking? If you don't have the basic options exhausted, you don't want to be jumping into more advanced stuff.

One more thing, ignore this piece of "advice".

personally i would suggest skipping the crap ones like hdrol and start on a 4-6 week cycle of something decent

(are you TRYING to get another PH ban????)



If you have any questions man, feel free to PM me. I'm always willing to help. At the end of the day, it's your body and your life, and so you can choose whether or not you want to listen to us. We don't steer kids away from this stuff because we're mean, we're watching out for your health.

 

[kom01]

This guy is a joker "on the run". Seriously man how old are you? Listen to DYEGYE he has good advise. Further, T50 is correct to an extent, but 5000 calories could be overdoing it.

On the run, so your saying that a first time user should start with Superdrol or phera to begin with?....

 

[UnrealMachine]

@ the OP: try increasing your calories by as much as it takes to hit 200 pounds. You'll gain some fat, but if you are training and dieting right, you should be able to gain mostly muscle. 200 might be beyond what you can naturally achieve if you have a small frame, but either way, sounds like you just need to bulk a bit more before you cycle.

here is the best way that we can help you out. List your diet, and ask for input.

 

[on the run]

He's 6'0" and 177, even if he had 5% BF that's tiny for his height, he's nowhere near any natural limit etc., therefore he should keep going without PH/AAS.

If he truly has been training for almost 3 years, then I would say his diet or training is flawed in some way.

do you know what 177 at 5% bf is not 'tiny' for 6 foot. that is your retarded muscle dysmorphic disorder speaking. did you read my post genius? say he started at 130 lbs, that is almost 50 LBs OF MUSCLE he has gained. you didn't answer my question either, how much lbm do you think a human can gain naturally? huh? 100lbs? for the 2nd time, maybe you will read it understand this time, EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT. some people'd natural base is 100lbs, some is 200lbs, you CAN NOT hold each to the same standards and make absolutely retarded comments like '177 5% bodyfat is tiny for his height'.

"If he truly has been training for almost 3 years, then I would say his diet or training is flawed in some way."

again let's say he has started at 130lbs (that is where i started at 6'1 believe it or not). he has been training almost 3 years, and gained 50 lbs of MUSCLE (seeing as he is ridiculous lean). can you please explain to me HOW his training or diet is flawed when he has (hypothetically) gained 50 LBS OF MUSCLE? how much more do you want him to gain??? for that matter, how much did YOU gain naturally in your first 3 years. i bet it wasn't even 50lbs lol.. damn so many dumb people on weight lifing forums, don't understand anything about genetics or differing natural bases

This guy is a joker "on the run". Seriously man how old are you? Listen to DYEGYE he has good advise. Further, T50 is correct to an extent, but 5000 calories could be overdoing it.

On the run, so your saying that a first time user should start with Superdrol or phera to begin with?....

did i say that? i said skip the crap like hdrol. start with someone like dymathazine etc..

 

[kom01]

ontherun, I can see where you are coming from and people do differ in their ability to put on muscle. However, it takes time to get your diet and training in check and someone who is trained only 3 years is very unlikely to have picked up everything so fast. Just to elaborate, it takes time to understand your body and have the knowledge to know when to take a break, to increase carbs to aid recovery etc... Also, in terms of training it also takes time to see what exercise/ training regime that best suits you. Hence, you can see everyones concern and recommendations for him to train naturally for a few more years before resorting to ph.

And in regards to this comment "start with someone like dymathazine etc..", are you being serious? So if the OP takes dymathazine and experiences significant sides, how do you expect him to understand how to deal with them? I would recommend starting with H-drol as DYEGYE has said it can be more forgiving if proper pct and support supps haven't been used properly.

 

[kom01]

Also ontherun, before you attack T50 have you asked the OP how much muscle he has put on naturally?

 

[Black Hat]

do you know what 177 at 5% bf is not 'tiny' for 6 foot. that is your retarded muscle dysmorphic disorder speaking. did you read my post genius? say he started at 130 lbs, that is almost 50 LBs OF MUSCLE he has gained. you didn't answer my question either, how much lbm do you think a human can gain naturally? huh? 100lbs? for the 2nd time, maybe you will read it understand this time, EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT. some people'd natural base is 100lbs, some is 200lbs, you CAN NOT hold each to the same standards and make absolutely retarded comments like '177 5% bodyfat is tiny for his height'.

"If he truly has been training for almost 3 years, then I would say his diet or training is flawed in some way."

again let's say he has started at 130lbs (that is where i started at 6'1 believe it or not). he has been training almost 3 years, and gained 50 lbs of MUSCLE (seeing as he is ridiculous lean). can you please explain to me HOW his training or diet is flawed when he has (hypothetically) gained 50 LBS OF MUSCLE? how much more do you want him to gain??? for that matter, how much did YOU gain naturally in your first 3 years. i bet it wasn't even 50lbs lol.. damn so many dumb people on weight lifing forums, don't understand anything about genetics or differing natural bases


did i say that? i said skip the crap like hdrol. start with someone like dymathazine etc..

For him to have gained 50 pounds of muscle he would have had to start at 127lbs, at 6 feet tall that's borderline anorexic, my bad for not assuming everyone starts out with an eating disorder.

 

[DYEGYE]

I would recommend starting with H-drol as DYEGYE has said it can be more forgiving if proper pct and support supps haven't been used properly.

Just for the record, I'm not supporting ANY 18 year old using PH's (not to discredit what I was talking to you about kom01). What I was saying regarding it was that a milder PH such as H-drol or P-mag offers a good assessment of your body's response to hormones, etc. Additionally, for most people it offers a smoother recovery. The low risk of things like gyno, etc means that if PCT isn't PERFECT (which it rarely is the first time around), you have a lower chance of permanent damage, though the risk does still exist. I'm certain someone out there has caused permanent shutdown and needed TRT due to halodrol, I've just never personally read about it. I know someone has posted bloods on here at one point showing how bad it can shut you down, liver toxicity, etc. I'm not suggesting that the OP use this compound at all. However, for first timers, I feel that jumping in on a "harsher" PH would be ill-advised.

OP- it's in your best interest to see how much more weight you can gain naturally. Don't be concerned about a little bit of fat... As long as you're gaining quality muscle as well the fat will shed right off when you diet down.

 

[kom01]

DYEGYE, I wasn't saying that you suggest taking H-drol for the OP, rather proving a point to ontherun. That is if a person was to take a ph, he should rather take H-drol as opposed to substances such as dymethazine as it can be more forgiving.

 

[DYEGYE]

DYEGYE, I wasn't saying that you suggest taking H-drol for the OP, rather proving a point to ontherun. That is if a person was to take a ph, he should rather take H-drol as opposed to substances such as dymethazine as it can be more forgiving.

Ah, understood. Just wanted to clarify lest someone jump on me for saying that hahaha. Nothing wrong with Dymethazine, just not a great choice for a first run.

 

[T50]

sorry but saying 'at your height and weight, you are nowhere near ready to juice', you don't know what he started at. maybe he started at 130lbs, in which case, he has already gained almost 50lbs naturally.. how much are you suggesting he gains naturally before he turns to anabolics? also suggesting he start eating 5000 calories when you have no idea what his metabolism is like/what his maintenance is etc etc is a fast track to turn him into a fat ass. Op ignore this whole post

you can NOT judge whether someone is ready to juice or not by their weight. not at all.. what you can judge it on is years/experience (even then this does nto necsarrily paint the whole picture) but most importantly, how much lbm you have gained since you started lifting.

OP what weight did you start at? you say you have been only lifting 'seriously' for one year, i gues by 'plateud' you mean your noob gains have stopped. you can probably gain another 10lbs naturally over the next few years if you lift hard, and then your gains will really slow. maybe then you will be ready, or maybe you decide you don't want to wait.. in which case there is plenty of info floating around for your first cycle. personally i would suggest skipping the crap ones like hdrol and start on a 4-6 week cycle of something decent

Are you joking me? Do you really think in 2 years of casual lifting and 1 year serious lifting he gained 50 pounds of muscle? What are you smoking? If he knew how to gain 50 lbs of LBM in 3 years he sure as he'll wouldn't be plateuoing at less than 180 pounds. Don't know why you think in one year of serious lifting he's accumulated a vast knowledge of diet and nutrition and lifting that takes years to fully understand.

And 5000 is excessive but I was trying to make a point to eat a ****load and he will make gains. Most people think they are eating much more than they really are unless they are pigging out on junk food all day.

 

[kom01]

Are you joking me? Do you really think in 2 years of casual lifting and 1 year serious lifting he gained 50 pounds of muscle? What are you smoking? If he knew how to gain 50 lbs of LBM in 3 years he sure as he'll wouldn't be plateuoing at less than 180 pounds. Don't know why you think in one year of serious lifting he's accumulated a vast knowledge of diet and nutrition and lifting that takes years to fully understand.

And 5000 is excessive but I was trying to make a point to eat a ****load and he will make gains. Most people think they are eating much more than they really are unless they are pigging out on junk food all day.

agreed...................

 

[zachmanman]

Don't listen to these guys OP, they just want to preach to you.

Most of them started juicing at a smaller size than you are now.

Now they got big on juice and feel the need to criticize you for wanting to juice at 180.

 

[TheDarkHalf]

@ the OP: try increasing your calories by as much as it takes to hit 200 pounds. You'll gain some fat, but if you are training and dieting right, you should be able to gain mostly muscle. 200 might be beyond what you can naturally achieve if you have a small frame, but either way, sounds like you just need to bulk a bit more before you cycle.

here is the best way that we can help you out. List your diet, and ask for input.

He's ALIVE!! Welcome back :hail:

And I second this. You're too young to be cycling. You're hormones are in their peak right now. No need to cycle until you hit 24-25 yrs IMO

 

[zachmanman]

He's ALIVE!! Welcome back :hail:

And I second this. You're too young to be cycling. You're hormones are in their peak right now. No need to cycle until you hit 24-25 yrs IMO

this is also false

testosterone peaks from age 25-30, then slowly declines by like 6% every 10 years or something

 

[DYEGYE]

Don't listen to these guys OP, they just want to preach to you.

Most of them started juicing at a smaller size than you are now.

Now they got big on juice and feel the need to criticize you for wanting to juice at 180.

Yeah, that's exactly what we want to do... I never got up to 240 natty in my life....

OP, ultimately, at 18 you're legally an adult in most states and can make your own decisions on whether or not you're going to use these products. We're just making recommendations. I think you have potential for a good amount of additional growth prior to using PH's. Like I said, PM me if you want help.

 

[TheDarkHalf]

Yeah, that's exactly what we want to do... I never got up to 240 natty in my life....

OP, ultimately, at 18 you're legally an adult in most states and can make your own decisions on whether or not you're going to use these products. We're just making recommendations. I think you have potential for a good amount of additional growth prior to using PH's. Like I said, PM me if you want help.

Agreed. You don't need to screw up your hormones at your age. Just keep training naturally. Eat lots of food. Train your a$$ off. You'll get there!

 

[kgeorge57]

Well, I've been close to 190 before. 173-177 is my current weight because I just came out of baseball season about a month ago, where I had no time but to do 2-3 full body workouts a week.

Anything you can recommend that might help me without taking that leap into PH's? Like a natural test booster or something? I have been taking creatine, protein, gainers, multivitamins, fish oil and flaxseed, and I do eat a lot. My caloric intake is close to 4,000 calories on days I lift, and I get 275 g of protein every day. Idk. Kinda frustrated because I put in so much more time, effort, and intensity into my rest, nutrition, and training than all the kids my age. They just go to the gym and talk and eat whatever they want and they gain mass like it's nothing.

 

[kgeorge57]

And yes, I did start out really little. I started lifting 2 1/2 years ago when I started driving and I was 5' 11" 135 lbs. First six months, crappy diet and unstructured training aside, I gained about 25-30 lbs. After that first initial gain, even though I've only been committing more and more time and effort into it, the gains have been few and far between. I switch up my reps and sets range about every 6 weeks.

I've actually even lifted with a couple of older guys who are huge thinking they'd know what I'm doing wrong, but nothing much.

 

[kgeorge57]

Okay. On M-F, this is a sample of what my diet looks like

8am--2 packets of oatmeal with skim milk, 40 g protein shake

10-1030 am--snack on about 250 calories of almonds between classes

1230-1--lunch. Turkey breast, chicken, or steak(about 8 oz.). Usually I eat brown rice with it to fill me up, not sure how much though. Just guessing, probably 2 cups cooked, maybe? I eat rice steak and chicken, when I eat turkey I usually just put it on wheat bread and toast it.

330-10 egg whites.

630-post workout shake- 60 g of protein

830-whatever we have for dinner. Repeat of lunch, only about half the carbs.

1130-casein shake-40 g

 

[gymrat827]

Grab creatine, beta alanine, need2slin, fish oil, bcaa

 

[gymrat827]

Looking at your diet you need 100g of fast digesting carbs post workout

 

[TheDarkHalf]

Okay. On M-F, this is a sample of what my diet looks like

8am--2 packets of oatmeal with skim milk, 40 g protein shake

10-1030 am--snack on about 250 calories of almonds between classes

1230-1--lunch. Turkey breast, chicken, or steak(about 8 oz.). Usually I eat brown rice with it to fill me up, not sure how much though. Just guessing, probably 2 cups cooked, maybe? I eat rice steak and chicken, when I eat turkey I usually just put it on wheat bread and toast it.

330-10 egg whites.

630-post workout shake- 60 g of protein

830-whatever we have for dinner. Repeat of lunch, only about half the carbs.

1130-casein shake-40 g

Dude your diet lacks some serious calories. Where in the hell are all the carbs? Try doing 1/2 cup oats with your 10 egg whites....and add some fast digesting carbs to your PWO shake. How much carbs you add depend on how hard you train. You'll have to experiement but I would start with around 50g.

Implement those changes there and you add about 500 cals to your diet. Do that for the next 8-12 weeks and tell me if you put on some good weight.

 

[T50]

Dude your diet lacks some serious calories. Where in the hell are all the carbs? Try doing 1/2 cup oats with your 10 egg whites....and add some fast digesting carbs to your PWO shake. How much carbs you add depend on how hard you train. You'll have to experiement but I would start with around 50g.

Implement those changes there and you add about 500 cals to your diet. Do that for the next 8-12 weeks and tell me if you put on some good weight.

Word, so my point is proven. OP says he eats 4000 calories a day when he is no where close. OP, eat more. End thread/

 

[DYEGYE]

Word, so my point is proven. OP says he eats 4000 calories a day when he is no where close. OP, eat more. End thread/

Also, nuking an 8 oz sweet potato and eating it about an hour preworkout will give you an additional 200 calories and about 50g of carbs to get through your workout. Eat some steak or a burger with it and you'll get in at least an additional 500 calories throughout your day... I had a trainer who's trained with some big names recommend that I eat a sweet potato and a quarter pounder before I work out when I'm bulking. Just the sweet potato will give you an awesome pump.

 

[TheDarkHalf]

Also, nuking an 8 oz sweet potato and eating it about an hour preworkout will give you an additional 200 calories and about 50g of carbs to get through your workout. Eat some steak or a burger with it and you'll get in at least an additional 500 calories throughout your day... I had a trainer who's trained with some big names recommend that I eat a sweet potato and a quarter pounder before I work out when I'm bulking. Just the sweet potato will give you an awesome pump.

Totally agree with this....add this to your 330 pm meal. Maybe start out with 1/2 sweet potato (or 1/2 cup oats). If you feel like you can do more after adding that for a few days then add just a tad more I know if I do a cup of oats or a sweet potato I need at least an hour for it to digest if not longer...otherwise i'll end up with heartburn throughout my workout

Oats and Sweet potatoes are super cheap carb sources too

 

[DYEGYE]

Totally agree with this....add this to your 330 pm meal. Maybe start out with 1/2 sweet potato (or 1/2 cup oats). If you feel like you can do more after adding that for a few days then add just a tad moret

Ah yeah... Sometimes I forget the body weight factor haha... There's a big difference between me eating a sweet potato and a cheeseburger at 240 lbs vs someone 40-60 lbs lighter than me... That'd be like me trying to down a 3/4 lb sweet potato and a double whopper (obviously not quite that drastic, but I'm just making my point here). Definitely feel it out. But as the old adage goes, if you wanna be big, you gotta eat big.

 

[kgeorge57]

Well when I say _g protein shake, it is from Pro Complex gainer and not just regular whey so there are some carbs but I see what y'all are saying. But my natural bf is about 9-10%. That sample diet is actually closer to 3200-3400 calories, so I understand I do need to up that.

So more carbs it is...
I did have a legitimate 4,000 calorie diet though, and I was getting a bunch of carbs from September-December of this last year when I was bulking up for baseball. I got close to 190 here, about 187ish, but I did gain a lot of body fat. No way around it? If I wanna get big I'm just gonna have to deal with not being lean until I get the mass I want?

 

[kgeorge57]

Also, just to note, the supplements I use now are just casein, pro complex gainer, fish oil and flaxseed, multivitamins, and Size-On. Also 1 scoop of noxipro before I workout.

 

[TheDarkHalf]

Bottom line is if you are eating 4k cals and sitting at 9-10% you need to house a ton of food to grown....if I was eating 4k I'd get fat as $hit

 

[kgeorge57]

Yeah, that's the thing though. In the pre-season span, I was listening to all the guys who were swole and were seniors when I was a freshman who kinda guided me through my nutrition and stuff during that 4 month span. I was just downing food, good food mind you, just carbs and calories galore cause I got moved to 4-hole my senior year so I needed to get a lot bigger. I did gain 12 pounds to get up to 187 but my bf went through the roof too. Although I was the strongest I've ever been then, I also had the highest bf% I've had in my entire life. Probably 14-15% maybe? Now, I have a slightly visible 4 pack not flexing, and a decent 6 pack and adonis belt flexing. So, while loading on the carbs and calories, I was strong as crap, but I had no definition really, which was fine since I was training for pure size and strength. Now that I'm done with sports, I'm still trying to gain muscle, but I'm a lot more concerned with being lean.
That's kinda what draws me to PHs cause all the kids who do them right my age seem to gaine 10-15 pounds like that, and there body fat goes down...

 

[TheDarkHalf]

Yeah, that's the thing though. In the pre-season span, I was listening to all the guys who were swole and were seniors when I was a freshman who kinda guided me through my nutrition and stuff during that 4 month span. I was just downing food, good food mind you, just carbs and calories galore cause I got moved to 4-hole my senior year so I needed to get a lot bigger. I did gain 12 pounds to get up to 187 but my bf went through the roof too. Although I was the strongest I've ever been then, I also had the highest bf% I've had in my entire life. Probably 14-15% maybe? Now, I have a slightly visible 4 pack not flexing, and a decent 6 pack and adonis belt flexing. So, while loading on the carbs and calories, I was strong as crap, but I had no definition really, which was fine since I was training for pure size and strength. Now that I'm done with sports, I'm still trying to gain muscle, but I'm a lot more concerned with being lean.
That's kinda what draws me to PHs cause all the kids who do them right my age seem to gaine 10-15 pounds like that, and there body fat goes down...

The grass is always greener on the other side kid. Make up your mind. Either be lean, or be big and strong. It takes years of training IMO to become big, lean, and strong naturally.

Bottom line is you shouldn't worry about being lean at this stage. Just work on the mass for a while (next 2-3 years). Let the muscle you put on mature. Let your body adapt to the increased size.

Don't take a short cut just because everyone else is. You will gain more respect from others if you attain what you want to attain naturally. At least spend more time gaining knowledge on supplementation and nutrition for YOU. Experiment.

Don't worry about PHs. I'd hate for you to screw up your hormones or something at your age. Lets not forget about the potential for gyno either.

Just be patient and put in the hard work. The size will come. And we are here to help.

 

[kgeorge57]

Yeah, you're absolutely right. I'd much rather be respected for doing it naturally. Kinda inconvenient it's gonna take 3 more years...but, oh well

Alright, well thanks for the advice guys, I really appreciate it.

 

[kom01]

How come no one introduces fruit in their diet? I also was against it but this bodybuilder I trained with recommended it and it is a good source of carbs and they digest quickly too.

 

[kapustahead]

ur left nipple is lower than your right one

 

[weightsiwield]

What are your lifts like mate? Would recommened trying to max out on deads, squats and bench befor even considering

 

[kapustahead]

lol I'm good man, I'm from another board.... just "new" here, was just lettin homeboy know his left nipple is lower than his right and I'm past considering, ballz deep in tren/hdrol... debating on peppering it with some super dmz, but thinkin that may just be too much ^_^

 

[Titration]

Wait until you're 22-23, maybe even 25. At 18 I was making better gains when my diet was spot on then the guys taking PH/AAS