How anabolically effective is DHEA?

[anaboller]

Hey guys,

I've come across a source for DHEA and am wondering what the effectiveness of this supplement is for increasing strength and muscle endurance, along with possible side effect risks. I am currently taking 2IU of GH on a 5/2 split along with beta-alanine and creatine as my primary supplements. I've read a lot about the effectiveness of DHEA for anti-aging and have heard of quite a few athletes taking it, particularly NBA players. I am 28 years old and 160lb, with a long history of sports and strength training.


Would adding 30mg of DHEA orally ED to my current supplements have a positive effect? I am prone to Alopecia Areata with AAS use, so have been avoiding the use of any typical AAS. Could 30mg of DHEA cause my alopecia areata to flair up due to its androgenic qualities?


Thanks

 

[anaboller]

Lastly, is any PCT needed for DHEA?

Thanks again.

 

[chocolatemilk]

DHEA does work best for older people. You are still pretty young to see any solid effects from it. But the effects are mostly for mood, energy, and just anti-aging in general and not so much for muscle mass and strength.

Oh and oral DHEA is garbage. Just converts to a bunch of estrogen. You want transdermal DHEA applied to the shoulders and back where you will get good androgen conversion for working out. That will be way more effective.

Ruthless supplements will coming out with one very soon.

And no, PCT is not needed.

 

[anaboller]

Thanks for the information.

Given that oral DHEA converts to estrogen, I take it that it's probably better to just stop supplementing with it altogether?

 

[chocolatemilk]

Yea don't bother with oral DHEA unless you are 50 years old. Script DHEA is usually a transdermal as well.

Dermacrine is a transdermal DHEA if you can find it on the net, but lookout for Ruthless Supplements version to come out soon as well.

 

[JoHNnyNuTZ]

When Is ruthless finally coming out with it...I CANT WAIT!!!

 

[wastedwhiteboy2]

30 mg seems pretty low. And at your age I would not expect you to benefit much from it anabolically. DHEA has to convert to 4ad then to test and you have to get a reasonable amount into your bloodstream. Transdermal would be best but in my opinion a waste. I use DHEA for anti cortisol effects and to increase estrogen on a dry PCT.

 

[gymrat827]

When Is ruthless finally coming out with it...I CANT WAIT!!!

Should be soon, the release date has been pushed back but it's on it's way. When it's available you ll find out quickly. People will be all over it and discussing it in lots of threads

 

[DYEGYE]

Lastly, is any PCT needed for DHEA?

Thanks again.

I'm really not trying to flame, but why are you using AAS? And also, are you in Canada? That's the only reason I could think of that someone would need a "source" for DHEA... You can just get online and order caps for ridiculously cheap.

One thing I've done before (at the suggestion of a guy I used to work with who I now know didn't fully understand what he was talking about) was superdosing DHEA combined with an AI. The "cycle" broke down something like this:

6 weeks

DHEA 400/400/400/400/400/400
Formadrol Extreme 4/4/4/4/4/4/taper off

Looking back now, it probably wasn't the best thing I ever did, but I definitely saw increased aggression and drive in the gym, and it did help me cut a little weight.

 

[BigBlackGuy]

Thanks for the information.

Given that oral DHEA converts to estrogen, I take it that it's probably better to just stop supplementing with it altogether?

If you're going to take DHEA (regular 5-DHEA), make sure it's low dosed, such as in Androlean. This allows the 5-DHEA will end up converting to (in a 2 step process) testosterone. It also converts to estrogen and 7-keto.

If you want to take DHEA for muscle growth, it would be necessary to use 4-DHEA or 1-DHEA to avoid estrogenic side effects. Primordial sells a 4-DHEA and 1-DHEA product called Andromass.

I agree, topical DHEA works well, but not for muscle growth. It'll increase libido, for sure, but do little for fat loss or muscle gain.

 

[anaboller]

I'm really not trying to flame, but why are you using AAS? And also, are you in Canada? That's the only reason I could think of that someone would need a "source" for DHEA... You can just get online and order caps for ridiculously cheap.

One thing I've done before (at the suggestion of a guy I used to work with who I now know didn't fully understand what he was talking about) was superdosing DHEA combined with an AI. The "cycle" broke down something like this:

6 weeks

DHEA 400/400/400/400/400/400
Formadrol Extreme 4/4/4/4/4/4/taper off

Looking back now, it probably wasn't the best thing I ever did, but I definitely saw increased aggression and drive in the gym, and it did help me cut a little weight.

I am looking at AAS use for increased strength and muscle mass/decreased body fat. Yes, you're right I am in Canada and can't purchase DHEA OTC.

What type of gains did you see from 400mg of DHEA ED? Given that I am looking at smaller amounts (30mg) is this too small a dosage to be effective? Would I need an AI? (Looking at Formadrol I assume this is an anti-estrogen)

I am a bit uneducated on the subject, how are the benefits of DHEA comparable to typical AAS? I've read that it is more androgenic, so this leads to "hardening" and greater aggression. I've understood that anabolic effects are what lead to fat loss, strength gain and larger muscles, why would we want to have androgenic effects through supplements like DHEA?

 

[anaboller]

If you're going to take DHEA (regular 5-DHEA), make sure it's low dosed, such as in Androlean. This allows the 5-DHEA will end up converting to (in a 2 step process) testosterone. It also converts to estrogen and 7-keto.

If you want to take DHEA for muscle growth, it would be necessary to use 4-DHEA or 1-DHEA to avoid estrogenic side effects. Primordial sells a 4-DHEA and 1-DHEA product called Andromass.

I agree, topical DHEA works well, but not for muscle growth. It'll increase libido, for sure, but do little for fat loss or muscle gain.

If DHEA-5 has estrogenic effects won't these counteract any anabolic/androgenic effect?

It sounds like there are few anabolic effects from DHEA, particularly at low doses. Is the only real benefit aggression/increased sex drive?

 

[DYEGYE]

I am looking at AAS use for increased strength and muscle mass/decreased body fat. Yes, you're right I am in Canada and can't purchase DHEA OTC.

What type of gains did you see from 400mg of DHEA ED? Given that I am looking at smaller amounts (30mg) is this too small a dosage to be effective? Would I need an AI? (Looking at Formadrol I assume this is an anti-estrogen)

I am a bit uneducated on the subject, how are the benefits of DHEA comparable to typical AAS? I've read that it is more androgenic, so this leads to "hardening" and greater aggression. I've understood that anabolic effects are what lead to fat loss, strength gain and larger muscles, why would we want to have androgenic effects through supplements like DHEA?

To be honest, I don't really know what my gains were, as I was trying to cut down my body fat at the time (I was probably around 16-18%). If I remember correctly, I was also taking lipo 6x.

That run did help me lose a little bit of body fat, and as I said before the formadrol had my aggression through the roof. I did notice a boost in my libido as well. However, I was an idiot back then- I thought that I could solve my problems with supplements, rather than eating a good diet.

You are correct, Formadrol is an AI. As far as a product for standalone runs, it is one of my favorites. The purpose in stacking it with the DHEA was to help control its rate of estrogen conversion.

All that said, DHEA won't even come close to AAS. Its anabolic potential really isn't worth going through the trouble of acquiring it illegally. If you're going to break the law, you may as well get something that actually works.

 

[BigBlackGuy]

If DHEA-5 has estrogenic effects won't these counteract any anabolic/androgenic effect?

It sounds like there are few anabolic effects from DHEA, particularly at low doses. Is the only real benefit aggression/increased sex drive?

Just take a look at this article: What-is-the-difference-between-dhea-1-dhea-4-dhea-r-dhea-and-7-dhea.html

 

[anaboller]

This link cleared up a lot. Thanks BBG!

 

[JeremyT]

****in sucks being in Canada eh bro? Can't get anything that really works, or the things that our mice would need after. Bummer.

 

[BigBlackGuy]

This link cleared up a lot. Thanks BBG!

No prob boss

 

[jbryand101b]

geezus.

oral dhea doesn't primarily convert into estrogen. this isn't saying it cant, but it's a toss up and anybodies guess as to how much will become estrogen.

here is how it works.

you take your dhea orally. most is immediately converted into an inactive metabolite from the stomach acids.

what does make it through can then be converted via enzymes into androstenedione, or some other hormones, I believe its pregenelone, not sure, this is off the top of my head, so im a little rusty.

Anyways, from androstenedione, it can either be aromatized into estrogen, or it can convert into testosterone.

and then the testosterone can either be aromatized into estrogen, or converted into dht.

now, 4-dhea has pretty much the same chance of estrogen conversion as dhea, and also has to be dosed high orally for the same reasons as regular dhea.

once the 4-dhea makes it through it can become either 4-androstenedione, or 4-androstenediol. Now, the diol cant directly aromatize via the aromatase enzyme, but the dione can. or, they can both conver into test, and you know the rest.

an aromatase inhibitor will def help in preventing aromatization into estrogen of these two compounds.

an effective dose of 4-androstenediol is around 600-800mg e/d. with dosages spread about every 4 hours.

so one should most likely dose any oral dhea product into these ranges if they hope to notice anything from.

a topical dhea product will trump the oral any day, this fact can not be denied. you skip the stomach, and have enzymes needed for conversion in the skin.

if you search, you can find a metabolic pathway of dhea in the body, which will show you the many different hormones this hormone can convert into.