Should I say screw a PH cycle ad just do a test e cycle?

[nickvtec1]

I've been doing some research and was originally gonna do a PH cycle but came across a couple threads and now I'm kinda wanting to just say screw it and start a test e cycle and start low at about 200mg/week to see how I react and up to max around 500mg/week. Should I take anything else while I'm on the cycle like cycles assist or anything else? And as for a PCT is nolva good enough or should I have something else to go along with it? I've been doing some research on products like nolva, Hawthorne Berry, Clomid, post cycle support, ZMA and a few other but not to sure on how serious this would be so I don't know what PCT's to take or what other products to take during the cycle so any help experience or suggestions is welcomed and appreciated. I want everything to be as normal and healthy as possible I'm not looking to cut any corners to save a few extra $$$.

Thanks guys!

 

[T50]

Simple answer yes. You will be very happy with a test only cycle instead of a PH. Or better yet, run the test and use a PH as a kickstart or ender.

 

[GetHyooge]

Yep, Test is better IMO. I ran 500mg/week for 12 weeks and went up 28lbs

 

[OrganicShadow]

Go for it

 

[nickvtec1]

I feel like the test would be better but I'm a bit iffy about ordering from online especially sense I'm new I'm might end up having to go with a PH stack

 

[michael75]

I would find an online supplier with good reviews,obviously not all reviews are going to be honest but you have to read inbetween the lines and eventually take a gamble,that is unless someone can recommend a supplier who knows they are legit.

IMO go for the test,don`t mess around with 200mg a week,do at least 400mg a week then you will get the results you want,Just do test for your first time,use the nolva and some clomid for PCT,i don`t think you have to worry about supps...Well maybe some milk thistle,possibly hawthornberry for BP.

Do some more research man and you should be good to go,good luck.

 

[no reason]

Yep, Test is better IMO. I ran 500mg/week for 12 weeks and went up 28lbs

i agree.. get way better gains from doing real AAS.. MAN I MISS IT !

 

[nickvtec1]

I would find an online supplier with good reviews,obviously not all reviews are going to be honest but you have to read inbetween the lines and eventually take a gamble,that is unless someone can recommend a supplier who knows they are legit.

IMO go for the test,don`t mess around with 200mg a week,do at least 400mg a week then you will get the results you want,Just do test for your first time,use the nolva and some clomid for PCT,i don`t think you have to worry about supps...Well maybe some milk thistle,possibly hawthornberry for BP.

Do some more research man and you should be good to go,good luck.

Thanks man, I've been doing a lot of research and talking to everyone on here and I've learned a lot I was looking to do around 500mg a week but I was told to start at 200 to see how I react would it be a good idea to start at 400mg a week? I'll keep doing research and everything hopefully I'll bee able to locate all of these. Thanks everyone for the suggestions and help!!

 

[michael75]

400mg will be sweet,if you start low you wont really know just how good it is,sure you`ll have effects,but there is a lot of difference in 200mg and 400mg...This is all from research though bro,unfortunately i can`t do injectables so i don`t have first hand experience,some would think i dont have a right to give advice but i beg to differ,i did my research before i tried to pin.

 

[no reason]

alot will say that you wont have to run an AI with your test unless your nips start to get sore..but i always did and would run aromasin at 12.5 mg ed from day 1 and through pct . you dont have to but at least have the aromasin on hand in case you need it on cycle. pct should be just like i told you in the other post. clomid or torem with aromasin..3g of vit c(1000mgs 3x day) and 10g of creatine ed

 

[nickvtec1]

400mg will be sweet,if you start low you wont really know just how good it is,sure you`ll have effects,but there is a lot of difference in 200mg and 400mg...This is all from research though bro,unfortunately i can`t do injectables so i don`t have first hand experience,some would think i dont have a right to give advice but i beg to differ,i did my research before i tried to pin.

Well you seem to be knowledgeable and what your saying is what I've heard from other people as well including people who have done it. May I ask why you cant do injectables?

 

[nickvtec1]

alot will say that you wont have to run an AI with your test unless your nips start to get sore..but i always did and would run aromasin at 12.5 mg ed from day 1 and through pct . you dont have to but at least have the aromasin on hand in case you need it on cycle. pct should be just like i told you in the other post. clomid or torem with aromasin.

Ok cool so if I should do aromasin on my cycle and during my pct? I'll definitely have it on hand for pct but if its beneficial to use while on the cycle to then I'll do that as well.

 

[no reason]

Ok cool so if I should do aromasin on my cycle and during my pct? I'll definitely have it on hand for pct but if its beneficial to use while on the cycle to then I'll do that as well.

you usually wont get sides (gyno symptoms) on cycle with a test e only cycle...but it can happen..some will do one for the first time and have no sides or symptoms but then do it a second time and ..bam ! symptoms ! you will no if you will need it or not.

 

[nickvtec1]

you usually wont get sides (gyno symptoms) on cycle with a test e only cycle...but it can happen..some will do one for the first time and have no sides or symptoms but then do it a second time and ..bam ! symptoms ! you will no if you will need it or not.

Ok so I should just keep it on hand just in case and then if I don't need it just wait till pct and take it how we talked about earlier??

 

[no reason]

for pct start clomid 2weeks after your last test injection.. 50 mgs ed for 4 weeks..

you can run aromasin during the whole cycle or last half of cycle,right through pct.Keep estrogen to manageable levels is ideal for a quick recovery of HPTA

 

[no reason]

Ok so I should just keep it on hand just in case and then if I don't need it just wait till pct and take it how we talked about earlier??

yes hold on to it and only use it on cycle if you need it..

 

[nickvtec1]

for pct start clomid 2weeks after your last test injection.. 50 mgs ed for 4 weeks..

you can run aromasin during the whole cycle or last half of cycle,right through pct.Keep estrogen to manageable levels is ideal for a quick recovery of HPTA

So 400mg test a week, cycle assist, aromasin through the cycle and into pct

Clomid or torem with aromasin, 3g vit c, liv52 and creatine for pct and I should be set?

 

[nickvtec1]

yes hold on to it and only use it on cycle if you need it..

Ok cool man you have been such a big help:head:

 

[no reason]

So 400mg test a week, cycle assist, aromasin through the cycle and into pct

Clomid or torem with aromasin, 3g vit c, liv52 and creatine for pct and I should be set?

yep..perfect..your g2g..

 

[nickvtec1]

yep..perfect..your g2g..

SWEET! Now I just have to find a way locate it all and wait for my paycheck lol
Thanks for all your help its much appreciated!!!

 

[no reason]

So 400mg test a week, cycle assist, aromasin through the cycle and into pct

Clomid or torem with aromasin, 3g vit c, liv52 and creatine for pct and I should be set?

your gonna be a beast ! some people put on 25-28 lbs when doing test only at 500mgs a week for 12 weeks. if the gear is legit

 

[nickvtec1]

your gonna be a beast ! some people put on 25-28 lbs when doing test only at 500mgs for 12 weeks. if the gear is legit

Nice =) so I should do a 12 week cycle? and how long for pct? And then I rest for the total right? So if I cycle for say 12 weeks and pct for say 4 weeks then I would rest 16 weeks after pct before another cycle correct?

 

[no reason]

hey you might also want to look into getting some HCG. this is so your nutz dont shrink..most say that it is not needed with a test only cycle but some perfer to use it ed on cycle or eod on cycle..or just to have it on hand just in case..its only used on cycle..i dont think you will need it but its always good to have it just in case..

ANCILLARIES....HCG


Dare I say that HCG use is more important than SERMS(nolva or clomid) for good hpta recovery after a LONG cycle( 12 weeks or longer)
Personally I would use hcg during any cycle 8 weeks or longer...and if you are really paranoid and want the absolute most rapid hpta recovery then use it during any cycle for next to zero testicular shrinkage.

Now you will recover hpta without hcg, and fairly quickly if you truly have not suffered from much testicular atrophy, but not as rapidly as you could and that will cost you at least some gains.

HCG, human chorionic gonadotropin, is a hormone taken from placentas during pregnancy. It limics the action of LH from the pituitary and stimualtes testosterone production in the testes.

It is important to the male bodybuilder in that proper use of this hormone PREVENTS testicular atrophy caused by HPTA shut down from steroid use.

If the testes are shut down they will shrink, it's as simple as that. The degree of shrinkage depends upon the length of time "on" androgens. Some guys literally see their testes atrophy down to raisen size..NO ****. Others see modest shrinkage and a few say they see NO shrinkage. In the latter this is BS and has to due with poor pre-cycle assessmant of testicular size....after all how many of us sit down before a cycle and really feel the true size of our balls.


NOTE: all steroids will shut you down 100% and at a very low dose, and that includes Primo and anavar for you sceptics. As little as 100mg a weekof testosterone administered exogenously in the form of injections will shut you down in as little as a few weeks.

HPTA RECOVERY

The hormones that drive the HPT axis(LH and GnRH) recover full potential quite quickly post cycle. The hypothalamus rapidly senses a low androgen level and pumps out GnRH and this tells the pituitary to release LH for testicular stimulation of T production......trouble is if the nuts are small they simply cannot respond well to this stimulation. The testes take a fair amount of time to "get going" after a long sleep and as a result T levels post cycle can be low for months(if greatly atrophied). This obviously results in a rapid loss of gains, not to mention phycological isssues such as depression as well as physical issues like fatigue.

* SO it is important for "optimal" gainskeeping to try to begin HPTA recovery with full or nearly full sized testes.

HOW TO USE HCG

It is best to prevent testicular atrophy in the first place rather than trying to bringing the boys back to size after they have already atrophied.
With this in mind prudent use of hcg is DURING a cycle.

HCG can be taken either IM or sub Q in the fat and yes you can mix it with your oils.

Take it at 500iu's every 3rd or 4th day while on cycle.


Some use it post cycle at higher doses after their testes have already shrunk. This method works but I do not believe that it is the best way to use HCG. In this method one injects a high dose of hcg right near the end ofa cycle but before clomid. The opening dose is often 3000iu's followed sometimes by another 3000 4 days latter and then 1500iu's every 4th or 5th day and then the last shot is usually only 1000iu's....total time three weeks.
No use taking clomid or nolav with the HCG since HCG will supress the hpta all by itself via the testosterone production it stimulates.

WARNING.....if you use hcg at a high dose for too long you might desensitize the testes to LH so don't get carried away with it.



SERMS clomid and nolva

After any cycle a SERM should be used, either clomid or nolva.

SERMS help to "kickstart" a sleepy hpyothalmic GnRH response.

GnRH is pretty quick to recover but SERMS help the hypothalamus to "turn the key" on the GnRH impulse generating engine.

SERMS block the affect of estrogen at the hypothalamus and since estrogen is highly inhibitory this blocking affect allows for greater LH production. This "greater LH production" strongly stimulates the testes to produce testosterone.
If you use only gear that does NOT aromatize to estrogen then you don't have to worry about the inhibitory affect of estrogen post cycle(from the steroid)...but SERMs should still be used to counter the inhibitory affect of the estrogen seen form the T production(from the hcg use).....and also from the estrogen production from the aromatization of the T production form your testes after the hcg is stopped.

*Even if you never used HCG you should still use a SERM after a cycle with non aromatizing gear to counter the inhibitory effect of normal estrogen production(from the aromatization of T from your improving T production)

You have to wait until exogenous androgen levels drop to a similar level of what a normal T production would be, in order for this LH stimulating affect from SERMS to work, since androgens are also highly inhibitory on the hypothalamus.

So you must have to have a good grasp on the half lifes of the various gear you use. You also have to be aware of the how the dose taken factors into the equation. ie: test cyp has a half life of around 6 days so with this in mind 500mg of test cyp will reduce to 250 mg in a week and about 125 in another week. That 125mg is about 100mg of pure testosterone(minus ester weight) and you can now begin SERM therapy because that level is near what a normal T output would be(slightly higher though)

NOTE: There is no penalty for starting a SERM too early but there is one for starting too late.

Search for half lifes of other gear in other threads on the boards.

On opening "SERM day", post cycle, you want to do a "loading dose" of about 200-300mg of clomid in divided doses in order to get blood levels up pronto. Then take 50-100mg/day for a week and then 50mg/day for 3 more weeks MINIMUM... and longer after deca use.
Alternatively you can use nolva at 80mg on day one in divided dose and then 40mg /day for a week and then 20mg/day for at least 3 more weeks.

 

[nickvtec1]

That was great reading I was just reading up on that stuff but not the clear or informative I'll look into it thanks

 

[no reason]

yeah you can also google using hcg with a test only cycle..lots of info. but i think it will be good to have on hand because most will usually want to do more then a test only cycle next go around..you know how it is...lol !

 

[nickvtec1]

yeah you can also google using hcg with a test only cycle..lots of info. but i think it will be good to have on hand because most will usually want to do more then a test only cycle next go around..you know how it is...lol !

That I do lol I'll definitely give it a look and most likely will keep it on hand just ion case!

 

[Knowbull]

I've been doing some research and was originally gonna do a PH cycle but came across a couple threads and now I'm kinda wanting to just say screw it and start a test e cycle and start low at about 200mg/week to see how I react and up to max around 500mg/week. Should I take anything else while I'm on the cycle like cycles assist or anything else? And as for a PCT is nolva good enough or should I have something else to go along with it? I've been doing some research on products like nolva, Hawthorne Berry, Clomid, post cycle support, ZMA and a few other but not to sure on how serious this would be so I don't know what PCT's to take or what other products to take during the cycle so any help experience or suggestions is welcomed and appreciated. I want everything to be as normal and healthy as possible I'm not looking to cut any corners to save a few extra $$$.

Thanks guys!

What I would do and what you would do are probably different. The bottom line is how much cash you have. If I had Test on hand already, I would stick with that, PCT? I would just stay on, if it was affordable, not a health problem and I could ensure my calorie intake would be maintained. Maintaining calories at high levels for muscle growth and pump is expensive Actually if you could afford to eat 3000 to 4000 cals daily, (while lifting weights regularly, of course) steak everyday, supps etc. you wouldnt need anything anabolic. You could puff up like a big blow fish

 

[SPR]

Yep, Test is better IMO. I ran 500mg/week for 12 weeks and went up 28lbs

can i ask how much did you retain ?

 

[GetHyooge]

can i ask how much did you retain ?

I kept 23lbs after PCT

 

[pillsRgood]

Fock ph's, come over to the darkside... more clinical studies done to back the drugs make it safer than taking some methylated hormone that some azzhole could have mixed in his bath tub... reason ph's are around still is because the fda hasn't been able to keep up with all of them, so it created a loophole that companies have exposed... not to say all of them are crap, some are decent, but honestly juice is they way to go if you want sustainable results...a 12 week cycle allows your body to adjust to 20 of so lbs of new muscle...4-6 weeks on a ph just isn't the same...
This is just my opinion, not trying to flame anyone's choices at all...

 

[nickvtec1]

Fock ph's, come over to the darkside... more clinical studies done to back the drugs make it safer than taking some methylated hormone that some azzhole could have mixed in his bath tub... reason ph's are around still is because the fda hasn't been able to keep up with all of them, so it created a loophole that companies have exposed... not to say all of them are crap, some are decent, but honestly juice is they way to go if you want sustainable results...a 12 week cycle allows your body to adjust to 20 of so lbs of new muscle...4-6 weeks on a ph just isn't the same...
This is just my opinion, not trying to flame anyone's choices at all...

After everything I've learned I have to agree with you

 

[Knowbull]

Excessive calorie intake, combined with progressive, step load training that is periodized, is what really does it. Blowin up, then shrinking, isnt making gains.

 

[nickvtec1]

Excessive calorie intake, combined with progressive, step load training that is periodized, is what really does it. Blowin up, then shrinking, isnt making gains.

Care to elaborate more? I understand I should take in large amounts of calories what do you mean step load training?

 

[Knowbull]

Increasing your poundages by a small percentage, weekly for a period of weeks, while staying in the same approximate rep range, then de-loading the amount of weight in a reverse fashion when you feel fatigued. Full body workouts 3X wkly. works for most people.

 

[nickvtec1]

Increasing your poundages by a small percentage, weekly for a period of weeks, while staying in the same approximate rep range, then de-loading the amount of weight in a reverse fashion when you feel fatigued. Full body workouts 3X wkly. works for most people.

Gotcha thanks for the info!! Everyone has been so helpful!

 

[Knowbull]

Its what this board is for. Im glad its helpful. I hope you train and supplement wisely, theres more to it than juice. Staying with the weights is key, after a certain point, you dont dare stop lifting weights for an extended period of time, the older you are the more that is true.

 

[nickvtec1]

Its what this board is for. Im glad its helpful. I hope you train and supplement wisely, theres more to it than juice. Staying with the weights is key, after a certain point, you dont dare stop lifting weights for an extended period of time, the older you are the more that is true.

Yes I've learned more off this board and the people on it then any other one our their and have gotten a lot of inspiration motivation from here. i my best friend gets trained by an ex nfl player/bodybuilder and he trains me now and hes great with supplements so I should be covered on that part thanks for the advice and suggestions =)

 

[Knowbull]

Yeh, ya gotta lift, do it smart and focus your entire life around it, reasonably of course. ya start comparin other peoples arms to your own, then one day you see youve got more tone and muscle than most, the only way to keep it is to keep lifting. Know whats it like when you keep lifting. Actually, youve decided that. Havent you?

 

[nickvtec1]

Yeh, ya gotta lift, do it smart and focus your entire life around it, reasonably of course. ya start comparin other peoples arms to your own, then one day you see youve got more tone and muscle than most, the only way to keep it is to keep lifting. Know whats it like when you keep lifting. Actually, youve decided that. Havent you?

Yes I'm FINALLY on a steady schedule so I can actually workout how I should now. I go to the gym with my buddy like I said and my school has a nice gym I use for free. my diet is ok but am getting that in check and paying a lot closer attention to it.I've never so motivated and all the people around here are HUGE so if i keep comparing and see I'm getting bigger and cut up and catching them I'll just push harder. I'm not quite sure what you last question is asking but if your asking if I'm gonna do the cycle then lay off the weights and stuff the answer is no lol I'm in for the long run. =)

 

[Knowbull]

Yeh, it becomes a life style, ya dont need anabolics to make it, but ya do need to lift weights smart, IT, lifting the weights, becomes your personal priority, while its not more important than whatever good relationship you have, it is more important than what you do for a living. As you are reading this your realize the more you think about lifting weights smart, the more you will. Perhaps you keep that in mind and think about it hundreds of times a day. Over and over again, lifting smart, building bulging biceps, the more you think about it, the more you have to have those muscles, you desperately want to be healthy. What would it be like when you do it correctly?

 

[nickvtec1]

Yeh, it becomes a life style, ya dont need anabolics to make it, but ya do need to lift weights smart, IT, lifting the weights, becomes your personal priority, while its not more important than whatever good relationship you have, it is more important than what you do for a living. As you are reading this your realize the more you think about lifting weights smart, the more you will. Perhaps you keep that in mind and think about it hundreds of times a day. Over and over again, lifting smart, building bulging biceps, the more you think about it, the more you have to have those muscles, you desperately want to be healthy. What would it be like when you do it correctly?

If your implying what would it be like all natty then man that would be great I think everyone deep down wants to have the right body and get their all natural some of us just either get impatient want it faster or w.e. other reason their is lol, well see I still have plenty of time to do more thinking and research its not like I'm buying the stuff tomorrow.

 

[jerbear1980]

Yes

 

[no reason]

I kept 23lbs after PCT

freakin awesome wasnt it !! what was your pct ?

 

[Husker89]

Get on the test, i've done many phs and they are good but t is the bomb, do it u will not regret it.

 

[Torobestia]

Testosterone is the real deal. A lot of these PHs dont even add muscle, they just up your glycogen levels, dry you up, and leave your vitals in a total wreck, not to mention some of them are simply dubious. So in short, I agree with the general consensus - if possible, go for the test e.

GLHF

 

[nickvtec1]

Hey guys sorry I haven't been on in a while changed to graveyard shift and have been swamped =o when I do decide to do a cycle I will just do a test cycle thanks for everyone's help and suggestions, when I'm about to start the cycle I'll be back on to ask the last little bit of questions I might have thanks for the suggestions, references, opinions, an help!

 

[MikeMagz1013]

Just keep in mind that people will know you're on roids..with a PH it's subtle. But if you don't give a **** about a giant head, then go for it. Overtime though, those roids make your head ginormous. Look at the ballplayers. And they have professional physicians monitoring them every day. Their heads still grew like balloons.

 

[LiveWire224]

Just keep in mind that people will know you're on roids..with a PH it's subtle. But if you don't give a **** about a giant head, then go for it. Overtime though, those roids make your head ginormous. Look at the ballplayers. And they have professional physicians monitoring them every day. Their heads still grew like balloons.

Thats from HGH, Not Test.

 

[nickvtec1]

Thats from HGH, Not Test.

ya i was gonna say..... i know people who have done test and their head didnt blow up but my boy plays football and did hgh and his head is huge

 

[Movin_weight]

Just keep in mind that people will know you're on roids..with a PH it's subtle. But if you don't give a **** about a giant head, then go for it. Overtime though, those roids make your head ginormous. Look at the ballplayers. And they have professional physicians monitoring them every day. Their heads still grew like balloons.

actually test is way more subtle than orals.... with an oral pple slam on 15lbs in a few short weeks... with test you gain the same amount over 10-12weeks