Do AAS actually work?
- 05-19-2011, 01:58 AM
Do AAS actually work?
I know I'll get flamed for this, please read it all instead of just the title
It seems like everyone my age who cycles isn't any bigger than me or is smaller unless they stay on
Its odd how many "4th superdrol cycle" threads I see on PHF and other forums then see the guy is 5'9" 170lbs and benches like 235 at 13% bf
it seems like I know more big natty guys than guys who juice or have juiced in the past
I have several friends IRL who have juiced and I'm bigger and stronger than them (nattybrahhere) it seems to be hit or miss online with some juicers being bigger/stronger than me and others being smaller and weaker
I feel like you can't actually get what you want from AAS unless you stay on all the time
the short answer is "of course they work retard" but it seems everyone who uses slowly shrinks after pct until they hop on again
ugh this is hard to explain without sounding like a repost or a retard
mayb some of you will understand what I'm trying to say
- 05-19-2011, 02:38 AM
Let's face it, not everyone has the determination to diet correctly and also follow an exercise program, let alone a good one. People don't make the gains they want so they resort to AAS, but their inferior uderstanding of the fundamentals ultimately holds them back. I know few people in real life that know anything about diet or training, and I've met a large amount of fitness enthusiasts. I suspect the Internet is not very different, except people can pretend all they want. If they act like they are doing everything right, and dont have the gains to show for it, they're probably liars.
That's my take on it, anyway.
- 05-19-2011, 03:08 AM
I think your 100% on the money. I also don't care how good your PCT, diet and ongoing training is if you do a massive cycle with a gram of test plus Deca and a few orals your never going to hold on to that kind of muscle gain when its just you and your balls. Although with good diet training and supplementation you can hold on to modest cycles, I see them as a short cut to get you to your pre-determined genetic peak once you go past that good luck holding on to what is not rightfully yours to have.
05-19-2011, 03:19 AM
I know what you mean. Slow and steady wins the race. I know of many examples exactly like the one you describe. But I also know examples of kids way larger than me and stronger on or off. I think it goes to some using them as a crutch. While others as a tool.
Being natty means you have to do everything right to get where you want. I really hate people with better genetics...
05-19-2011, 03:35 AM
I agree with the above post and I'll add a few things.
The number one place I think most lifters go wrong is not understanding how truly important diet really is. You master your diet, and you'll be 80% on your way to great gains and a lean body.
The second place people go wrong is not understanding what true intensity is in the gym. I'll walk out of the gym most of the time about ready to fall over, with my shirt drenched in sweat. Most other people I see barely break a sweat while there, most of them use terrible form, and to top it all off they have spotters yank the weight off just when they should be working the hardest.
Finally, I don't think the average person has much knowledge about what his/her goal should be with each lift. They don't concentrate on really contracting the correct muscles, and they don't have any rhyme or reason to their workouts or the order of their lifts.
All of these things contribute to people trying to pick up lifting and then being disappointed when they don't get the results they want. From the pattern that I've seen on these boards, these people will then figure they must have some genetic shortfall and will try AAS to compensate for it. Unfortunately, AAS or not, their lack of knowledge and poor technique will always result in a sub-par physique no matter what they do.
05-19-2011, 05:06 AM
I wondered the same thing…
Steroids maximize hypertrophy which is simply maximizing muscle volume in the cells. There’s no ****ing way you can sustain such a high muscle cell volume without ridiculous amounts of hormones pumping through your bloodstream. And no, a SERM for PCT will not keep these "gains" lol.
True lean tissue gains which involve cells dividing is called hyperplasia which is different than hypertrophy. This can possibly be achieved through IGF-1 and Growth Hormone and the process can be accelerated with the use of steroids.
I think steroid cycles cause hypertrophy over hyperplasia but hyperplasia is a big debate on its own in regards to humans. I plan on using HGH, IGF-1, and insulin with steroids when I'm older to reach 220+ at 7-10% bf as the pro's cannot get to the size they are at without HGH and insulin. I really think true lean tissue gain comes from steroids + HGH + insulin + IGF-1. But I don't know for sure.
I'm too young to get that deep into hormone manipulating. I enjoy the massive pumps, strength, size, and of course the attention I get from steroid cycles once in a while but I really don't expect to reach my goal of 220 7-10% bf unless I stay on for a very long time but f*** that. True gains cost $$$$$$$$$$$ and will not be achieved by a $15 bottle of superdrol.
05-19-2011, 08:20 AM
They work. The problem as has been stated, is that people use it as a crutch instead of a tool.
Used in moderate doses, with proper training, nutrtition, sleep and pct, you will keep some of your gains. Yes when you come off you''ll loose 10lbs of water from the muscles, and your blood cell count and total blood volume will decrease, as will your strength and muscle size, its inevitable.
my first ds cycle was 3 weeks of proto, and 1 week of epistane. i put on 15lbs, and kept 10 3 months after pct.
skip to my first injectible cycle. in 12 weeks i gained 25lbs and got up to 250.
4 months after i was back to 235, but i looked bigger and leaner than i did at my peak weight.
As long as diet nutrition and sleep are in the right balance, the aas will assist you towards your goals., long after you've pissed out the metabolites.
05-19-2011, 10:31 AM
I think alot of the problem is that people start them to soon. Being over 21 and training for 4-5 years doesn't mean your ready yet. I've been training for over 20 years. Now does that mean, that equals to 20 years of quality training Nope. I've had lay offs, work got in the way, diet wasn't dialed in, training wasn't as focused as it should have been, etc.
I just don't think people realize how hard they need to work before they should take that plunge. Do a quick search and look how many threads you'll see where someone is 23 and has been training "hard" for 3-5 years, and he hoped that at the end of his cycle he can bench 245-275.
05-19-2011, 12:31 PM
Diet is the key. Knowing your genetical limits, accepting them, then learning as much as you can about how to manipulate them without killing yourself...
I'm with CM: IGF1, insulin, HGH, anabolics. Insulin alone is so misunderstood, and not a lot of people want needles in their house... All part of the game...
05-19-2011, 12:47 PM
dragonrider had a good post about something similar to this in the anti aging forum, basically theorizing that the guys that AAS works extremely well for are the guys that are already predispositioned so to speak to react well to resistance/weight training in general.
05-19-2011, 12:49 PM
Yes, they work. People lose their gains because they are too young and inexperienced with their diet and training to know what the hell they are doing. I think a solid 5 years of experience where you design your own diet and training programs and figure out what works for you. The most underrated aspect of training is critical thinking and evaluating what works for you. There are so many threads on the boards that can be answered with either a little research or by analyzing your specific situation.
M.Ed. Ex Phys
05-19-2011, 12:55 PM
05-19-2011, 01:32 PM
I think another problem is most on this forum use over the counter orals. Check out someone that does an injected cycle. They are much larger and keep their gains better. Some of it is lack of knowledge. Staying big on an over the counter oral can be tough if not done right. Diet, intensity in the gym and knowing how to use your AAS makes a difference. I've learned a lot on this forum and learned through trial and error with my body.
05-19-2011, 02:09 PM
When i was 21 I cycled and didn't keep.****. i didnt pct and had no clue about diet and training...after 10 year break i jumped back into a test cycle, pct'd correctly and mastered my diet.... yes i lost 7ish lbs out of the 25 I packed on, but have kept the rest and am strong as fock...AAS do work, but is a waste of money and time if you dont understand proper diet/nutrition and how to pct correctly... I respect those who decide to train natty as long as those who do keep their judgments about us on the darkside to themselves...
You are born small and weak, you die small and weak...How you look in-between is entirely up to you...
05-19-2011, 02:15 PM
Agree with lots of info. I think alot of people did what I did and were sold otc steroids well new to working out which creates a crutch thinking you need them. But since you grow so fast anyways at the start you get no extra gains just slowed by PCT. So people like me end up with a few cycles under their belt but don't look like it.
Steroids only help if you've hit a big slowdown of gains. So no one should use them until they have gained 25+ lbs of muscle IMO. Not to mention learning training and diet.
05-19-2011, 03:09 PM
I've been going back and forth between choosing to darkside or not, I've read **** for 3 years, last year I was convinced on doing my first cycle, but chickened out, even made a thread about it here
The more I read and learn, the less I see AAS as something I should do
05-21-2011, 01:52 PM
"you dont know the power of the darkside"
05-21-2011, 03:54 PM
If you can't gain without them then you don't know what you're doing. Many people just use them as a crutch and are addicted. Thats why you see all these "What do I do In-between cycles? threads. If you know what you were doing and could gain without them well then there would be no point in using them right?. I think once someone sees the gains they make with steroids and how much easier it is to gain they never want to come off. It will be more difficult for them and they would have to work much much harder to do the same thing. Its psychological. Plus its laziness.
Note*This my opinion only so don't get your panties in a bunch.
05-21-2011, 11:48 PM
Imo AAS should only be used wile dieting to maintain muscle, ppl should be able to bulk natrually like the guy said above over u go bak to normal there's noway your body willhold
05-21-2011, 11:54 PM
05-22-2011, 09:37 AM
Let's face it, more circulating TEST (or its analogues) = more anabolism/hypertrophy and ability to preserve gains notwithstanding the macro's and dedication. Gear can serve as an effective safety net for many lazy people.
I think those that stay on or blast/cruise (competitive bodybuilders) stand to have the scales tilted in their favor with respect to muscle mass with all things considered equal (diet/training,etc).
While I do not espouse AAS use without proper nutirition and training (discipline); being ON trumps being OFF with regard to anabolism.
05-22-2011, 11:37 AM
I think the most basic and simple answer to the question is that AAS works great for guys who already know how to get results while not ON, and works poorly for guys who dont know how to get results on OR off.
05-22-2011, 12:31 PM
Plain and simple they work, there is no question about that.
There are no Ronnie Colemans(etc...) without PEDs ... no matter food or what.
05-22-2011, 12:35 PM
05-22-2011, 12:40 PM
They definitely make whatever you are doing easier. For sure better knowledge about diet, training rest, produces better results.
I think it's a fallacy that you keep much of your gains permanently because of good PCT. I think it's all temporary gains that diminish over the long term as the hormone works its way out of your body. I believe the gains that you keep with proper PCT would have been achieved without hormones anyhow because this is your genetic potential. It's just that the hormones helped you to get there faster and helped you to see and feel what it is like to go beyond your personal predisposed genetic potential.
05-22-2011, 12:42 PM
I think over time, everyone will dwindle back down to their genetic limit.
HGH+IGF1+insulin+test is the only combo that will permanently change a man, imo.
05-22-2011, 04:31 PM
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