Trenbolone Unseen Side Effects and Cysts

T50

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I have been leaning towards the following cycle starting in the end of August which includes Trenbolone Acetate.

Cycle
1-8 Tren Ace 75mg/EOD - 262.5mg/week
1-10 Test Prop 150mg/EOD - 525mg/week

Support Supplements
1-8 T3 25mcg/day
1-8 Dostinex .5mg/E4D
1-10 Aromasin 12.5mg/EOD (higher if necessary)
2-10 HCG 250iu Mon+Thurs - 500iu/week

I have been researching Tren and have heard that the drug may have some side effects that are "unseen" in blood tests and the and unlike the usual means of feeling sides like high BP or insomnia. It seems that some people think that Tren is linked to the formation of cysts throughout the body. One member of this forum "Yaz" was claiming this to be true in another post on tren ace.

- Generally i don't recommend people using Trenbolone because it's a very bad drug and no i 'm not talking about the obvious things (physical manifestations and bloodwork) but about others that aren't shown in bloodwork - but still it's your choice.
- Secondly, most people don't know how toxic this drug really is, not talking about the usual physical manifistations & bloodwork values but for issues that don't appear in any type of bloodwork but may do in the future.
Trenbolone's mechanism of action is pretty much unique in comparison to other steroids, it's massive increase in prostaglandins is responsible for all the rapid changes in the chemistry of the body both when it comes to effects and side effects.
Actually there is no other steroid to my knowledge like Trenbolone that produces so dramatic changes to the body.

The fact is that there aren't many studies in Trenbolone in humans or in animals as well as in most steroids. I have researched this drug and i've seen some cases in the internet that people had accidentally found through medical examination many cysts developed in many organs of the body (liver, kidneys, prostate, lungs etc) and most of them have in common frequent Trenbolone use. You right now maybe thinking that this isn't conclusive and your right but i think that there are some studies - very few maybe 1 or 2 - that were testing Trenbolone and throughout the abstract somewhere was mentioned as an observation the development of cysts.

This only my opinion and it doesn't necessarily mean it's correct but from the very few available information on Trenbolone, i personally wouldn't recommend it by any means unless it's for some high level competitors with money/contracts at stake - this drug has way more that it appears to be, it's on another level in so many ways in comparison to other steroids.
Big props to Yaz for all the information and hopefully he can chime in with some more. What I'm looking for now is any "proof" of these unseen damages to the body. Personal accounts of tren use and then developing cysts, tren use and then poor health down the line, tren use and death, any studies done on tren that are available (I realize tren is the least scientificly studied drug but there may be some studies done on its effect on cattle).
 
GLHF

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Yaz is a great member. hes helped me out before and hopefully will in the future.
he really knows wtf hes talking bout!!
 
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Yaz

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- The "unseen" part i mentioned is the development of cycts in various organs of the body -the high BP, insomnia and sweats is what i was refered to as physical manifestasions.
- Again absolutely none of my claims is scientifically established, just some personal observations and some speculations about the drug that i've read from other people in various boards - so it is just my opinion and nothing more.


If you don't mind let me do some suggestions:

Weeks 1-8/10 --> Test. Prop 100-125mg EOD
Weeks 1-8/10 --> Tren. Ace 50-75mg EOD
Weeks 1-8/10 --> T3 25-50mcg ED
Weeks 1-8/10 --> Arimidex 0,50-1mg EOD OR Aromasin 12,5-25mg ED
Weeks 1-8/10 --> Cabergoline 0,50-1mg EOD OR E3D


HCG Use:
If you go with 8 weeks i would suggest:
Weeks 3-6 --> 1500IU/week (split in 2 doses of 750IU 3,5 days between)
Weeks 7-8 --> 3000IU/week (split in 2 doses of 1500IU 3,5 days between)

If you go with 10 weeks:
Weeks 5-8 --> 1500IU/week (split in 2 doses of 750IU 3,5 days between)
Weeks 9-10 --> 3000IU/week (split in 2 doses of 1500IU 3,5 days between)

PS Thanks GLHF for the good words.
 
T50

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- The "unseen" part i mentioned is the development of cycts in various organs of the body -the high BP, insomnia and sweats is what i was refered to as physical manifestasions.
- Again absolutely none of my claims is scientifically established, just some personal observations and some speculations about the drug that i've read from other people in various boards - so it is just my opinion and nothing more.


If you don't mind let me do some suggestions:

Weeks 1-8/10 --> Test. Prop 100-125mg EOD
Weeks 1-8/10 --> Tren. Ace 50-75mg EOD
Weeks 1-8/10 --> T3 25-50mcg ED
Weeks 1-8/10 --> Arimidex 0,50-1mg EOD OR Aromasin 12,5-25mg ED
Weeks 1-8/10 --> Cabergoline 0,50-1mg EOD OR E3D


HCG Use:
If you go with 8 weeks i would suggest:
Weeks 3-6 --> 1500IU/week (split in 2 doses of 750IU 3,5 days between)
Weeks 7-8 --> 3000IU/week (split in 2 doses of 1500IU 3,5 days between)

If you go with 10 weeks:
Weeks 5-8 --> 1500IU/week (split in 2 doses of 750IU 3,5 days between)
Weeks 9-10 --> 3000IU/week (split in 2 doses of 1500IU 3,5 days between)

PS Thanks GLHF for the good words.
Thanks for the advice man. I appreciate it and will make the necessary changes for the HCG.

However, this thread was meant more to be to about discussing the assumption of tren's hidden side effects and not about my proposed cycle. I still appreciate the advice though. If I can find enough convincing "evidence" against tren, there is no chance i'm running it anyway haha. Repped BTW.
 

MakaveliThaDon

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great thread guys. Love reading yaz's input on tren. I'm just getting into the darkside game, so obviously tren is not something I have tried yet, but of course it's always in the back of my mind as something to try in the future. It seems even the AAS vets are pretty cautious with tren, you gotta assume there is a reason for that.
 
MidwestBeast

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Subd :)
 
LyingSac

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Cool...more tren for us....oh and by the way...most aas excelerate tumor growth just the same as muscle....don't know why your pickin on tren...but hey...to each their own.....good luck bro
 
DetroitHammer

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Yazz, is that you on your avatar? … I agree 100% that there are unknown sides with Tren as well as with most other steroids or PH. Whether Tren has more potentially life threatening sides or not, I don’t know. I’m not convinced Tren is any more toxic than let’s say cheque drops, anadrol, deca or many of the PH that used to be OTC. In fact, the PH I think can be vastly more harmful to the liver, as a first impression side, than Tren. This is not to say that Tren isn’t dangerous; it is. I personally like Tren but at higher doses, like 600-900, I feel like crap.

I’ve always considered myself a lab rat of sort. I experiment on myself to see how I react to certain gear. The problem is you can’t extrapolate my findings to anyone else because we all react differently and my reactions may be unique. I do share my findings, more as a reference than anything else. I’m on AAS for life, so I blast, then blast harder. My cruising dose is 400mgs of test e per week. I do not believe that’s exceptionally high, but that’s my belief; I’m not trying to convince anyone to cruise on TRT with 400mgs of test.

My experience with tren (ace, suspension, enanthate) is mostly positive. I do not experience erectile dysfunction, as I did with Deca. My joints feel great, I recover like the Million Dollar Man and my strength increases, but not dramatically. The sides I experience at around 500mgs pr week are: slight sweats, increased appetite and a little more difficulty sleeping. When I hit 900mgs pr week, I can feel a sharp pain in my spleen area; I can’t sleep; I have zero stamina—I get tired just tying my shoes and I generally feel like crap. The general feeling of “crap” is probably the most dangerous, because you don’t know what’s making you feel that way, but it’s not good.

I would like to mention that anyone pinning HCG, make sure you pin the day before your test injection; not the same day. And I really like the suggestion to take T3 with tren; it’s felt that tren reduces T3 production.
 
chocolatemilk

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In... been contemplating Tren A and Test E.

Detroithammer why don't you inject hCG same day as Test?
 
DetroitHammer

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In... been contemplating Tren A and Test E.

Detroithammer why don't you inject hCG same day as Test?
According to Dr Crisler, the idea is to inject HCG while your test levels are the lowest, to maximize the effect. Your test levels should be the lowest just before you inject test. If you pin HCG the same day you inject test, the surge in serum test will basically render HCG ineffective.
 
Yaz

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Yazz, is that you on your avatar? … I agree 100% that there are unknown sides with Tren as well as with most other steroids or PH. Whether Tren has more potentially life threatening sides or not, I don’t know. I’m not convinced Tren is any more toxic than let’s say cheque drops, anadrol, deca or many of the PH that used to be OTC. In fact, the PH I think can be vastly more harmful to the liver, as a first impression side, than Tren. This is not to say that Tren isn’t dangerous; it is. I personally like Tren but at higher doses, like 600-900, I feel like crap.

I’ve always considered myself a lab rat of sort. I experiment on myself to see how I react to certain gear. The problem is you can’t extrapolate my findings to anyone else because we all react differently and my reactions may be unique. I do share my findings, more as a reference than anything else. I’m on AAS for life, so I blast, then blast harder. My cruising dose is 400mgs of test e per week. I do not believe that’s exceptionally high, but that’s my belief; I’m not trying to convince anyone to cruise on TRT with 400mgs of test.

My experience with tren (ace, suspension, enanthate) is mostly positive. I do not experience erectile dysfunction, as I did with Deca. My joints feel great, I recover like the Million Dollar Man and my strength increases, but not dramatically. The sides I experience at around 500mgs pr week are: slight sweats, increased appetite and a little more difficulty sleeping. When I hit 900mgs pr week, I can feel a sharp pain in my spleen area; I can’t sleep; I have zero stamina—I get tired just tying my shoes and I generally feel like crap. The general feeling of “crap” is probably the most dangerous, because you don’t know what’s making you feel that way, but it’s not good.

I would like to mention that anyone pinning HCG, make sure you pin the day before your test injection; not the same day. And I really like the suggestion to take T3 with tren; it’s felt that tren reduces T3 production.
- I wish i was to be honest - this is IFBB Pro Denis Newman.
- The so called X-tren Prohormone isn't really a precurson to Trenbolone, that's just marketing - it's a basically a precurson to dienolone a steroid with manystructural similarities to Trenbolone, so it's different quite a bit.
- 600-900mg of Trenbolone weekly is plain ridiculus amount and not it a good way - IMO considering your age, i don't think it's a good choice both for the HPTA and your lipid profile. But still it's your choice and even better if indeed your bloodwork isn't that bad.
- I think it's essential the use of T3 because Trenbolone inhibits with the function of thyroid and this seems to be one of the main reasons for the increase in prolactin levels.
- Most of the side effects you described are already known, it's not the same part about Trenblone's side effects that i'm talking about.
 
DetroitHammer

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Didn't Denis Newman develop leukemia? If so, that was years ago, like in the early 90s, as I recall.

Never heard of X-Tren, but then again, I don't keep up with the PHs.

600-900 a week is stupid crazy, you're right.
 
Yaz

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Didn't Denis Newman develop leukemia? If so, that was years ago, like in the early 90s, as I recall.

Never heard of X-Tren, but then again, I don't keep up with the PHs.

600-900 a week is stupid crazy, you're right.
- You're absolutely right about Dennis Newman, that's the case unfortunately.
- I thought you were talking about the "tren" PH the so called "X-tren", my bad - it's unmethylated by the way, so no liver toxicity.
 

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Yaz, although I am not an expert, I believe that even though dienolone isnt methylated it is still rather liver toxic.
 
GeekPoop

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Yaz, although I am not an expert, I believe that even though dienolone isnt methylated it is still rather liver toxic.
ya me thinking so as well, its pretty dang powerful
 
T50

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Ugh anyone have any evidence of the cyst formation from tren? That's scaring the **** out of me and halting me from buying my cycle.
 
808rebel

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Ugh anyone have any evidence of the cyst formation from tren? That's scaring the **** out of me and halting me from buying my cycle.
interesting thread. not to scare u, because i dont think they are related, but i had a cyst "pop up" outta no where. but i never took tren before, only 2 cycles of pro-dienolone. i wish i could recall when exactly i got the cyst, i wonder if it was around the same time as my cycle. doc said its perfectly normal, but it makes me wonder if they were related ....hmmmmm
 
chocolatemilk

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T50... google Andreas Munzer and check out his autopsy on wikipedia... lol

I have heard all steroids have the potential to cause cysts. I'm sure moderate use of Tren will not cause problems.
 
DetroitHammer

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Ugh anyone have any evidence of the cyst formation from tren? That's scaring the **** out of me and halting me from buying my cycle.
Yazz said that he had no evidence but was expressing his belief based on his research and discusions on the Internet. It may only be circumstantial, but much of what we believe in is based on circumstantial reasoning. I would not refrain from taking Tren based soley on this thread, but it should cause you to pause and think it out more. I wish more guys would take the time to fully understand Deca. If they did, they may not be so eager to jump on the Bro-Sci bandwagon.
 

MakaveliThaDon

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Yazz said that he had no evidence but was expressing his belief based on his research and discusions on the Internet. It may only be circumstantial, but much of what we believe in is based on circumstantial reasoning. I would not refrain from taking Tren based soley on this thread, but it should cause you to pause and think it out more. I wish more guys would take the time to fully understand Deca. If they did, they may not be so eager to jump on the Bro-Sci bandwagon.
what do most people not know about deca?
 
T50

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interesting thread. not to scare u, because i dont think they are related, but i had a cyst "pop up" outta no where. but i never took tren before, only 2 cycles of pro-dienolone. i wish i could recall when exactly i got the cyst, i wonder if it was around the same time as my cycle. doc said its perfectly normal, but it makes me wonder if they were related ....hmmmmm
I'm talking about internal cysts in organs.

T50... google Andreas Munzer and check out his autopsy on wikipedia... lol

I have heard all steroids have the potential to cause cysts. I'm sure moderate use of Tren will not cause problems.
Yea I may be being a little paranoid but I just want to know the risks before I put anything in my body. I don't plan on cycling tren ever again if I go through with this cycle. 1 and done just to feel its power ha.

Yazz said that he had no evidence but was expressing his belief based on his research and discusions on the Internet. It may only be circumstantial, but much of what we believe in is based on circumstantial reasoning. I would not refrain from taking Tren based soley on this thread, but it should cause you to pause and think it out more. I wish more guys would take the time to fully understand Deca. If they did, they may not be so eager to jump on the Bro-Sci bandwagon.

Yea it has definitely made me pause and think it out. The thought of internal risks really just doesn't sit well with me for obvious reasons. I wish there was more evidence to confirm or deny all of this and more scientific studies done on tren.
 
Yaz

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Scientific Studies - There seems to be some connection

Yaz, although I am not an expert, I believe that even though dienolone isnt methylated it is still rather liver toxic.
Highly unlikely for unmethylated - 17aa methylation is what stresses the liver more than usual (toxicity varies from compound to compound but still ..) plus i've seen a couple of bloodwork results in various boards of people running it for 6-8 weeks and all liver values were normal.


Guys after some serious researching about studies, i found some that tested Trenbolone (not for cyct formation but for other subjects) and somewhere in the texts in all 3 studies cyst formation was existent to some degree.


1) Zentralbl Veterinarmed B. 1994 Mar;41(1):42-8.

Trenbolone acetate induced changes in the genital tract of male pigs.

López-Bote C, Sancho G, Martínez M, Ventanas J, Gázquez A, Roncero V.
SourceUniversity of Extremadura, Cáceres, Spain.

Abstract
Eleven entire and twelve castrated male pigs were implanted with trenbolone acetate and the effects of the treatment on genital tract macro- and microscopical modifications were evaluated and compared to non-implanted animals. In entire male pigs a reduction of testicular weight and size was observed as a consequence of the treatment (< 0.001), but no important modifications were found in bulbourethral gland and seminal vesicles macroscopically. Castrated non-implanted males had bulbourethral gland atrophy (P < 0.01), while castrated implanted ones showed similar development to entire males. As for vesicular glands there were no significant differences among the four groups under study. Histological study of prostate has demonstrated structural modifications. As a consequence of the treatment glandular lumen was increased (P < 0.05), and most parenchyma was occupied by polymorphous cysts


2) Cambridge Journals Online - Abstract

Check on the last 2 paragraphs of " Effects on reproductive system" section + the "Discussion" section too.


3) http://la.rsmjournals.com/cgi/reprint/25/2/117.pdf

Check the "Discussion" section.


Comments - General Thoughts:
- Again let me just say this one more time, in this particular subject it was very very hard to pull any evidence out because there isn't much to begin with and if it is it's definately hard to find. The above findings i believe cannot be considered "the" solid evidence but still it's better from nothing.
- As far the posted studies go you can see there's some connection about Trenbolone and cyst formation, nothing absolute but except these studies in various boards i have seen a few cases with Trenbolone users and the existence of cycts by accidental examination, i mean it's not just a connection "in paper" but somewhat apparent in the real world. It was a while ago that i researched this issue and even though i tried quite a bit to find these posts for several hours these since yesterday it wasn't possible so i'm sorry - i hope people do not take this as an excuse because it isn't.
- I really hope this helps a little bit about this issue because it is probably the best i can do.
 
T50

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Highly unlikely for unmethylated - 17aa methylation is what stresses the liver more than usual (toxicity varies from compound to compound but still ..) plus i've seen a couple of bloodwork results in various boards of people running it for 6-8 weeks and all liver values were normal.


Guys after some serious researching about studies, i found some that tested Trenbolone (not for cyct formation but for other subjects) and somewhere in the texts in all 3 studies cyst formation was existent to some degree.


1) Zentralbl Veterinarmed B. 1994 Mar;41(1):42-8.

Trenbolone acetate induced changes in the genital tract of male pigs.

López-Bote C, Sancho G, Martínez M, Ventanas J, Gázquez A, Roncero V.
SourceUniversity of Extremadura, Cáceres, Spain.

Abstract
Eleven entire and twelve castrated male pigs were implanted with trenbolone acetate and the effects of the treatment on genital tract macro- and microscopical modifications were evaluated and compared to non-implanted animals. In entire male pigs a reduction of testicular weight and size was observed as a consequence of the treatment (< 0.001), but no important modifications were found in bulbourethral gland and seminal vesicles macroscopically. Castrated non-implanted males had bulbourethral gland atrophy (P < 0.01), while castrated implanted ones showed similar development to entire males. As for vesicular glands there were no significant differences among the four groups under study. Histological study of prostate has demonstrated structural modifications. As a consequence of the treatment glandular lumen was increased (P < 0.05), and most parenchyma was occupied by polymorphous cysts


2) Cambridge Journals Online - Abstract

Check on the last 2 paragraphs of " Effects on reproductive system" section + the "Discussion" section too.


3) http://la.rsmjournals.com/cgi/reprint/25/2/117.pdf

Check the "Discussion" section.


Comments - General Thoughts:
- Again let me just say this one more time, in this particular subject it was very very hard to pull any evidence out because there isn't much to begin with and if it is it's definately hard to find. The above findings i believe cannot be considered "the" solid evidence but still it's better from nothing.
- As far the posted studies go you can see there's some connection about Trenbolone and cyst formation, nothing absolute but except these studies in various boards i have seen a few cases with Trenbolone users and the existence of cycts by accidental examination, i mean it's not just a connection "in paper" but somewhat apparent in the real world. It was a while ago that i researched this issue and even though i tried quite a bit to find these posts for several hours these since yesterday it wasn't possible so i'm sorry - i hope people do not take this as an excuse because it isn't.
- I really hope this helps a little bit about this issue because it is probably the best i can do.
Great post, I'd rep you again but I need to rep other people first. So it does seem that there is some sort of connection between trenbolone and cyst formation. I think I am convinced not to take it now.
 
Blergs

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"formation of cysts throughout the body" I think is BS!


I love tren myself.
on 300ew with 400mg maste ew and 300mg test ew great stuff
 
T50

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"formation of cysts throughout the body" I think is BS!


I love tren myself.
on 300ew with 400mg maste ew and 300mg test ew great stuff
What makes you think it is BS?
 
DetroitHammer

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What makes you think it is BS?
One of my best friends has smoked all his life, maybe two packs a day. He had a major heart attack a couple of years ago that almost killed him. He is living in denial saying that smoking had nothing to do with it; it's all genetics. So in his mind, there is no proof that smoking can lead to heart attacks. Guys who take deca and say they have no adverse side effects, like deca ****, feel deca-**** is all BS. It's easy to understand why someone who has taken Tren with no problems would think it's BS. Until it happens to you, it's ok.
 
T50

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One of my best friends has smoked all his life, maybe two packs a day. He had a major heart attack a couple of years ago that almost killed him. He is living in denial saying that smoking had nothing to do with it; it's all genetics. So in his mind, there is no proof that smoking can lead to heart attacks. Guys who take deca and say they have no adverse side effects, like deca ****, feel deca-**** is all BS. It's easy to understand why someone who has taken Tren with no problems would think it's BS. Until it happens to you, it's ok.
I was asking him because I knew there'd be no proof to back up his claim. Good post though, well said :head:
 

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