OTC PCT is a waste of time and money.
- 03-31-2011, 09:10 PM
- 04-01-2011, 02:14 AM
04-01-2011, 02:15 AM
I dont care what the arguments on here are pushing for OTC,
HCG on cycle plus a clomid PCT, tapered with arimidex will always win hands down no questions asked in terms of recovery time and trustworthyness.
Why would you risk your endocrine system on some OTC bullsh*t.
Theres a reason doctors prescribe clomid for restarting the HPTA and not tribulus/maca/novedex-xt.
You dont take an OTC Herbal steroid do you? Cuz there isn't such thing, so why would you expect these OTC test booster herbals to pick up the slack...truth of the matter is your body is doing most of its work on its own, and you are just getting lucky by assisting it with OTC crap.
If you want promising results and peace of mind knowing you protected every angle as much as possible dont f*ck with OTC crap when you are messing with real steroids. End of story.
04-01-2011, 03:00 AM
Another one of these threads?
If you have a SERM, consider yourself taken care of in the homeostasis recovery department.
However, do not expect your libido to fair well, do not expect glycogen retention and muscle fullness to fair well, do not expect energy and intensity in the gym, and do not expect estrogen to go down.
I agree, supplements aimed at homeostasis recovery will never work as efficiently as a SERM. But if you think recovery is the only aspect of sustaining gains that is retarded and so one-dimensional that its retarded in itself.
I have seen guys on here come off SD into testosterone and still lose weight and strength, and you think a simple old SERM will take care of gains? Reaching homeostasis is way over rated in terms of keeping gains. Wayyyy over rated.
There are other departments besides homeostatsis recovery which mean a lot for keeping gains. Take some Need2slin to sustain high glycogen and muscle fullness, take some creatine if you want the energy through ATP, strength, and muscle fullness. Take some Forma-stanzol near the ending of your PCT to drop risen estrogen levels due to SERM. If you want to be banging your wife or girlfriend during PCT get some HCGenerate.
Notice I am not mentioning products aimed at recovery because a SERM is all you need for that. But if you wanna hit PCT hard and optimize every aspect of it for gain retention, you should really add some good supplements.
A SERM on its own only raises LH levels. How much do you really expect that to help in sustaining new fragile muscle? Wouldn't you think shuttling nutrients through insulin mimickers and shuttling glycogen in the muscle is not useful for PCT? There is way more to the story than a SERM.
SERM first. Everything else around it. And if you choose the right sh*t it wont be a waste of money. Pick good supplements for:
Don't buy sh*t aimed at "recovery." It's money down the drain if you already have a SERM.
04-01-2011, 06:33 AM
-nov xt is a prohormone
-nov xt is not an AI
-nov xt is suppressive/lowers test
-that once it boosts test, the levels will drop below that of pre-nov xt
-taken an arbitrary time period of a 1 month for a following test to reassess bloods
Now once again, here's my comments/corrections
''6, 17-keto-etiocholeve-3-ol tetrahydropyranol = non-androgenic anti-aromatase''
''3, 17-keto-etiochol-triene'' = ATD... which is an AI
''3', 5, 7-Trihydroxy-4'-Methoxyflavone = Hesperetin (which is a flavanoid)
NO prohormone is in the ingredients.
and of course there are the original clinical studies done with nov xt:
There are more bloods done on it, but you can find those.
studies to show that it boosts test, not suppress it. you have failed to show any study that nov xt lowers test
and you made the arbitrary assumption that because test has risen, it must then fall below starting levels. Please show me clinical and/or anecdotal evidence for this, as I have never heard anything along these lines for nov xt.
I dont work for gaspari, but it annoys me when grossly incorrect statements are made about legitimate products with literally no evidence to back them up.
So do you:
1: still think Nov Xt is a prohormone? and not an AI?
2: still believe it lowers test?
3: think the studies are fraudulent?
4: still think that there is a drop in baseline test upon cessation of nov xt?
And once again, I would not run Nov XT as a PCT. I never said I would!
04-01-2011, 06:43 AM
Just trying to learn.
04-01-2011, 07:29 AM
People on here make a good point .
My friend did a m drol cycle for 6 weeks took nothing no cycle assist whatsoever and no pct he lost sll his gains but was fine, so i am confused when people say this snd that bottum line is .... Serms work best .. Fact! Otc can work?? Hopfuly for the newbi.
But can a serm cause repound gyno?? If used when not needed ??
When is a serm 100% needed? Take Competitive Edge Labs
04-01-2011, 07:32 AM
Let me say diffrently ...
Im a newbi and if anyone could tell me anything about p mag? Will i need a serm? If so what one? Thanks
04-01-2011, 09:02 AM
04-01-2011, 02:24 PM
Torem - I can't find a single damn side effect to it. I feel great - and it boosts my libido.
04-01-2011, 02:37 PM
04-01-2011, 02:42 PM
Bro you seem like you know yo ****.... Will a p mag cycle be a gden? 50/50/75/75/75 ? Pct serm nolvadex 20/20/10/10 ? Woth pct assist?
04-01-2011, 02:46 PM
04-01-2011, 02:54 PM
Yh sorry bud didnt mean to steal anyones thred ... I have made a thred omly a few have commented... Its very confusing because you have the people at the store saying otc pct is best then people on here saying a serm is best then people again on forms saying a serm is over kill and could put a rebound gyno after thanks tho
04-01-2011, 02:56 PM
04-01-2011, 03:01 PM
Thanks bro , i did read that up so i guess thats a rebound huh? So whats the best thing to do? Would you say ? Thanks i know you must have 100 newbi aday asking same thing lol
04-01-2011, 03:02 PM
There can be. But its all about doses of everything, time of everything, etc. really the only way to get a PCT right is to take bloodwork last day of cycle, and then tailor the PCT to where you are, restest at 2 weeks and make more changes then retest 4 weeks after end of PCT. but thats not really feasible.
04-01-2011, 03:11 PM
Yh... So would you say i should just have nolvadex on hand and do a otc pct or? Also h drol or p mag what would you say? Thanks
04-01-2011, 03:38 PM
04-01-2011, 03:45 PM
04-01-2011, 03:47 PM
04-01-2011, 03:54 PM
? Im confused on what you mean? On hand? Yes a serm on hand just if gyno comes up? I mean what pct did you do? Or what pct will ya say is best to go with ?
04-01-2011, 03:59 PM
In the past i've used both OTC and non-OTC and didn't notice a huge difference. I started with low testosterone levels before every cycling anything though so your results may vary
04-01-2011, 04:00 PM
Pika, just create your own thread. seriously, the bulk of the 3rd page of a general discussion of OTC has been consumed by your own personal questions about your cycle.
04-01-2011, 04:02 PM
04-01-2011, 07:51 PM
all the other stuff you mention will obviously be helpful, but I wouldn't consider that so much PCT, thats more just supplements. The obvious goal is to restore LH as quickly as possible and recover the hormone levels. All the other crap is just icing on the cake;
for sex hormone recovery purposes; which 99% of us are worried about, its down to
OTC AI like novedex bullcrap + some tribulus bullsh*t, or a SERM and a real AI.
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