OTC PCT is a waste of time and money. - AnabolicMinds.com - Page 2

OTC PCT is a waste of time and money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timmmah View Post
    This IS an assumption, as is that the levels will magically return to normal after the discontinuation of use. Neither of which is proven as the study concludes with the test levels immediately following use. I bet if a poll were taken, most would agree with me that the subjects levels did not simply return to original levels. We will never know the real answer though, unless we Actually see blood results from say, a month after the study?
    Its pretty well documented actually. Its not like steroids are new. They actually have medical uses and among the studies of usage of the steroids are also studies on what happens after discontinuation. For people with wasting diseases being on dbol for over a year, 80% reach 80% or higher of their original testosterone levels within 6 months. Is that optimal for a bodybuilder (for it to take that long) no. But a natural PCT product and testosterone boosters can help speed that and raise that and is still valid for some people, particularly considering a 4 week cycle does not have the same suppressing effect as a year does.
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    Bro you seem like you know yo ****.... Will a p mag cycle be a gden? 50/50/75/75/75 ? Pct serm nolvadex 20/20/10/10 ? Woth pct assist?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pika View Post
    Bro you seem like you know yo ****.... Will a p mag cycle be a gden? 50/50/75/75/75 ? Pct serm nolvadex 20/20/10/10 ? Woth pct assist?
    good idea. if in doubt, probably best to create your own thread and you'll get a much more focussed response
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    Yh sorry bud didnt mean to steal anyones thred ... I have made a thred omly a few have commented... Its very confusing because you have the people at the store saying otc pct is best then people on here saying a serm is best then people again on forms saying a serm is over kill and could put a rebound gyno after thanks tho
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pika View Post
    Yh sorry bud didnt mean to steal anyones thred ... I have made a thred omly a few have commented... Its very confusing because you have the people at the store saying otc pct is best then people on here saying a serm is best then people again on forms saying a serm is over kill and could put a rebound gyno after thanks tho
    a SERM acts as a weak estrogen and binds to the sites in your breast tissue where estrogen would bind. It doesn't lower or change the circulating amount of estrogen. So as estrogen builds up in your bloodstream as your testosterone levels rise, it has nowhere to go. You suddenly stop using the SERM, breast tissue estrogen receptors are available again, and now the estrogen has a place to go.
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    Thanks bro , i did read that up so i guess thats a rebound huh? So whats the best thing to do? Would you say ? Thanks i know you must have 100 newbi aday asking same thing lol
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    There can be. But its all about doses of everything, time of everything, etc. really the only way to get a PCT right is to take bloodwork last day of cycle, and then tailor the PCT to where you are, restest at 2 weeks and make more changes then retest 4 weeks after end of PCT. but thats not really feasible.
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    Yh... So would you say i should just have nolvadex on hand and do a otc pct or? Also h drol or p mag what would you say? Thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pika View Post
    Yh... So would you say i should just have nolvadex on hand and do a otc pct or? Also h drol or p mag what would you say? Thanks
    on hand for what? without blood tests how will you know "I need to use this now", and like I said its all about doses, times, and you starting off knowing what your baseline blood levels are so in case there is a problem later you have something to compare to. I don't ever recommend anything specific for PCT cause its all 100% individual
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    Good read here until the hijack
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    Quote Originally Posted by bakerderek0 View Post
    Good read here until the hijack
    agreed
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    ? Im confused on what you mean? On hand? Yes a serm on hand just if gyno comes up? I mean what pct did you do? Or what pct will ya say is best to go with ?
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    In the past i've used both OTC and non-OTC and didn't notice a huge difference. I started with low testosterone levels before every cycling anything though so your results may vary
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    Pika, just create your own thread. seriously, the bulk of the 3rd page of a general discussion of OTC has been consumed by your own personal questions about your cycle.
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    Ok bro il do that now sorry,
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemilk View Post
    Another one of these threads?

    If you have a SERM, consider yourself taken care of in the homeostasis recovery department.

    However, do not expect your libido to fair well, do not expect glycogen retention and muscle fullness to fair well, do not expect energy and intensity in the gym, and do not expect estrogen to go down.

    I agree, supplements aimed at homeostasis recovery will never work as efficiently as a SERM. But if you think recovery is the only aspect of sustaining gains that is retarded and so one-dimensional that its retarded in itself.

    I have seen guys on here come off SD into testosterone and still lose weight and strength, and you think a simple old SERM will take care of gains? Reaching homeostasis is way over rated in terms of keeping gains. Wayyyy over rated.

    There are other departments besides homeostatsis recovery which mean a lot for keeping gains. Take some Need2slin to sustain high glycogen and muscle fullness, take some creatine if you want the energy through ATP, strength, and muscle fullness. Take some Forma-stanzol near the ending of your PCT to drop risen estrogen levels due to SERM. If you want to be banging your wife or girlfriend during PCT get some HCGenerate.

    Notice I am not mentioning products aimed at recovery because a SERM is all you need for that. But if you wanna hit PCT hard and optimize every aspect of it for gain retention, you should really add some good supplements.

    A SERM on its own only raises LH levels. How much do you really expect that to help in sustaining new fragile muscle? Wouldn't you think shuttling nutrients through insulin mimickers and shuttling glycogen in the muscle is not useful for PCT? There is way more to the story than a SERM.

    SERM first. Everything else around it. And if you choose the right sh*t it wont be a waste of money. Pick good supplements for:

    Glycogen
    ATP
    Muscle fullness
    Strength
    Libido
    Insulin mimickers
    Estrogen control

    Don't buy sh*t aimed at "recovery." It's money down the drain if you already have a SERM.
    the point i was making is that an OTC AI is never going to do a better job at HPTA restoration as a SERM

    all the other stuff you mention will obviously be helpful, but I wouldn't consider that so much PCT, thats more just supplements. The obvious goal is to restore LH as quickly as possible and recover the hormone levels. All the other crap is just icing on the cake;

    for sex hormone recovery purposes; which 99% of us are worried about, its down to

    OTC AI like novedex bullcrap + some tribulus bullsh*t, or a SERM and a real AI.
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