honest discussion about the drawbacks of SARMs

[neverstop]

So I've read all the logs but I just don't believe the "it has no negative side effects, take it and get jacked!" We all know that there is nothing that has no drawback at all as everything is a compromise in some regard in life.

I'm primarily interested in MK-2866 since I won't touch something that could ruin my vision.

I know the easy answer is "nobody knows" but:

has anyone on here really dug into the medical literature to try and gauge the negatives of this new drug?

who here has more medical knowledge than me (everyone) and has given this some serious thought and understands the pathways through which this works?

I am excited to try this stuff and I already have some lined up but am worried about taking experimental synthetic drugs without even a basic understanding of how it could harm me or what to watch out for.

 

[jbryand101b]

read this, this will give you and anyone else a good foundation on the truth about sarms.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/167988-selective-androgen-receptor.html

and you have a right to be worried, bbr's using s4 were reporting loss of vision before GtX even knew this was a side effect.
Why? Because it had yet to be tested on humans before humans were using it. so far only rats and possibly primates have been tested i believe.

 

[neverstop]

thanks, I had read that. The S4 with vision problems scares the shiat out of me for sure. I am pretty faking brave and I'm scared to take this stuff. This taking random experimental drugs re manufactured in Chinese labs bought of the internet is certainly getting pushed pretty far with SARMs imo. I may still take it, don't get me wrong, but only once.

that writeup is good but it doesn't really go over any of the potential negatives of taking SARMs? Maybe it's in there and I missed it?

 

[Dr.Lang]

Great topic. Just to clarify, SARMs were tested in Humans.

The vision sides didn't bother me to bad with s4. They quickly went away after I ended my cycle. I really like what the s4 did to my body. Many guys run a 5 day on 2 day off routine.

With the Osta I had no sides whatsoever. ZERO

Im going to stack the two at some point.

 

[mich29]

Patrick Arnold has a new article about this item in this month's MD I believe.

 

[poopypants]

Anyone else? I'm interested in hearing more as well....

I am already pretty visually impaired (-4.00 in both eyes) and progressively getting worse (-2.75L, -2.50R less then 7 years ago) and even if the issue seems to be temporary there must be some long term effects..... Right?

 

[mich29]

Anyone else? I'm interested in hearing more as well....

I am already pretty visually impaired (-4.00 in both eyes) and progressively getting worse (-2.75L, -2.50R less then 7 years ago) and even if the issue seems to be temporary there must be some long term effects..... Right?

good points here.I remember hearing about sarms a few years ago but didn't look into it too much due to it being so new and as many have said theres not alot of info on long term effects.

 

[RickRock13]

Nice thread. I've only used Ostarine so far, as the vision issues with S4 have me worried. I'm still going to pick some up and I will run it but at a lower dose.

Ostarine has given me no sides at all however

 

[Outstanding]

Patrick Arnold has a new article about this item in this month's MD I believe.

Haven't read that yet, but looking forward to it!

As for the OP, the only side effect I've realized after a full month of OSTA is headlights really seem to be more distracting and bright, as if every car has their brights on.

I'm still unsure if SARMS + AAS would cause any androgen receptor competition enough to down regulate the effect of both though.

 

[soontobbeast]

Haven't read that yet, but looking forward to it!

As for the OP, the only side effect I've realized after a full month of OSTA is headlights really seem to be more distracting and bright, as if every car has their brights on.

I'm still unsure if SARMS + AAS would cause any androgen receptor competition enough to down regulate the effect of both though.

not a scientist , but long term light sensitivity doesnt sound normal

 

[2k1s]

russianstar had a log where he ran ostarine at high doses. He said he had heart palpitations. Personally, I ran it at 25mg and it did make me stronger and made me feel/look like I am on something. It gave me horrible lethargy though, I had to caffeine first thing in the morning or I couldn't even get out of bed. I had 2 friends that ran it at comparable doses and they reported lethargy as well. I actually like it because the overall quality of sleep went up significantly.

 

[Whacked]

Nice OBJECTIVE thread so far. Anyway we can PLEASE keep the BS overhyping AND trolling out of this thread in the best interest of the board? Thank you

 

[neverstop]

Great topic. Just to clarify, SARMs were tested in Humans.

has anyone here read these studies in depth? Any studies of SARMs on humans must have had some mention of negative side effects?

I've taken a glance but I'm FAR from the most knowledgeable about medicine on here and I'm still learning to search for this type of information effectively.

 

[EasyEJL]

has anyone here read these studies in depth? Any studies of SARMs on humans must have had some mention of negative side effects?

I've taken a glance but I'm FAR from the most knowledgeable about medicine on here and I'm still learning to search for this type of information effectively.

Well, S4 was dropped from human trials as a drug candidate because of sides, so that should tell you something. Ostarine is still being investigated. It was side effect free at 3mg/day, but people are using as high as 10x that.

 

[neverstop]

russianstar had a log where he ran ostarine at high doses. He said he had heart palpitations. Personally, I ran it at 25mg and it did make me stronger and made me feel/look like I am on something. It gave me horrible lethargy though, I had to caffeine first thing in the morning or I couldn't even get out of bed. I had 2 friends that ran it at comparable doses and they reported lethargy as well. I actually like it because the overall quality of sleep went up significantly.

this is very interesting. Hopefully you don't mind answering a few questions to help us all out:

Do you have any insight into WHY it gave you lethargy and made you sleep better? Would be interested to hear more about what you mean by "quality of sleep went up" too, as I'm a pretty big insomniac.

anyone have any thoughts on why it caused heart palpitations? that is some scary stuff!

those are pretty high doses too, why take such a high dose? Just from my ignorant digging around, I'd probably only run this stuff at 5-7mg a day and I believe the medical studies were using 1-3mg?

 

[neverstop]

S4 was dropped from human trials as a drug candidate because of sides

good point, S4 scares me. Being able to see is important!


Do you have any links to studies of Ostra showing it was side effect free? I saw a few awhile back but didn't mention any negatives but I didn't see anything about it directly stating it had no measurable side effects.
thanks!

 

[2k1s]

this is very interesting. Hopefully you don't mind answering a few questions to help us all out:

Do you have any insight into WHY it gave you lethargy and made you sleep better? Would be interested to hear more about what you mean by "quality of sleep went up" too, as I'm a pretty big insomniac.

anyone have any thoughts on why it caused heart palpitations? that is some scary stuff!

those are pretty high doses too, why take such a high dose? Just from my ignorant digging around, I'd probably only run this stuff at 5-7mg a day and I believe the medical studies were using 1-3mg?

I'm an insomniac too. Basically when I was on 25mg of ostarine I slept deeper and I woke up more refreshed. I normally average 4-6 hours of sleep because I can't stay asleep. On ostarine I could sleep for 12 hours and had to set an alarm because I would sleep in every day.

I started to up my dosage when 12.5 mg when my gains on it stalled out. I ran it during pct and put on 4lbs. It didn't really provide explosive strength gains like I get on ds/ph's. If I had to compare it to anything I'd say as far as strength gains go its like creatine monohydrate x2. I'm not sure if when I run it next if I'm going to run it up that high.

I can't say why he got heart palpitations. Iirc he got them running it at like 50mg per dose. His log is a fairly interesting read. I recommend it even though some members like to say he is a sarmsearch rep or something of that nature.

My friend suffers from seizures and I told him to try it out. He is the kind of guy that is a hard gainer, has to work out all the time or he'll lose everything. I guess he wasn't taking enough of his medication seized up while he was driving his car(he parked it first) and ended up being in the hospital for like a week. He was surprised that when he got out of the hospital he had only lost 2lbs.

You're correct with the medical studies running it at super low doses. The wikipedia article on it has a fair amount of information about it.

Total random side note: ostarine changed the smell of my body odor. I was rocking the homeless man smell by the end of my work outs

 

[Outstanding]

russianstar had a log where he ran ostarine at high doses. He said he had heart palpitations. Personally, I ran it at 25mg and it did make me stronger and made me feel/look like I am on something. It gave me horrible lethargy though, I had to caffeine first thing in the morning or I couldn't even get out of bed. I had 2 friends that ran it at comparable doses and they reported lethargy as well. I actually like it because the overall quality of sleep went up significantly.

I get super, ridiculously, almost painfully tired around 1 or 2pm every day. I mean, I can barely sit up straight in my chair at work, it's so bad I am nearly unable to stay awake even when my manager is a few feet away.

I never thought to correlate SARMS/OSTA with the lethargy. I don't take any stimulants whatsoever, and I do get at least eight hours of rest. I say 'rest' and not sleep, because I don't sleep through the night. I'm either too hot or too cold, it's annoying.

I will say that OSTA is my choice compound though, although I have not used S4, because at 25mg/day I feel as though it brings about some hefty recomping effects.

 

[neverstop]

interesting stuff guys, thanks. Surprised how many people have taken this actually. Would be interested to get more details from anyone about blood work before or after (I've seen schwell's) or blood pressure when on or anything.

Anyone with an understanding of how these things worth want to speculate on potential negative side effects?


It may be worth tracking down one of the people working on these in the labs and see what they have to say.... I'm sure someone in pro BB land or pro sports has done this??

 

[neverstop]

I get super, ridiculously, almost painfully tired around 1 or 2pm every day. I mean, I can barely sit up straight in my chair at work, it's so bad I am nearly unable to stay awake even when my manager is a few feet away.

I never thought to correlate SARMS/OSTA with the lethargy. I don't take any stimulants whatsoever, and I do get at least eight hours of rest. I say 'rest' and not sleep, because I don't sleep through the night. I'm either too hot or too cold, it's annoying.

I will say that OSTA is my choice compound though, although I have not used S4, because at 25mg/day I feel as though it brings about some hefty recomping effects.

I have to say this sounds like the one and only time I tried Tren. The best cycle of my life but I will never use it again. If OSTA Is anything like Tren, then not worth it to me.

 

[Outstanding]

I have to say this sounds like the one and only time I tried Tren. The best cycle of my life but I will never use it again. If OSTA Is anything like Tren, then not worth it to me.

It isn't the OSTA causing the heat flashes, I'm on some other compounds as well. However, OSTA has been the only constant throughout, and I started it before anything else. The only thing I'm concerned about at this point, isn't the quality of the products from where I purchased, or the worthiness of OSTA... but rather if any receptor competition exists between OSTA and AAS to the point the user would realize a decreased sum effect from dual usage.

 

[neverstop]

yeah, I can't answer that question but just from what I know I don't know why you would want to stack a SARM with AAS. AAS are so much stronger that if you wanted more gains you could just take a bit more or add another compound, etc. SARMs seem so much more tailored and beneficial in PCT that there would have to be some crazy synergy for me to consider taking them on cycle, especially considering the cost and unknown side effects. I personally would only feel comfortable taking SARMs at pretty low dose. IGF On the other hand had some pretty amazing synergy the one time I took it with tren.

 

[2k1s]

I had blood work done as well. I found it wasn't suppressive at all after a 4 week cycle during pct. Estradiol was raised slightly iirc but it came back within normal ranges. My lethargy was never bad enough that I felt like falling asleep in the middle of the day. It didn't mean I wasn't capable of taking a 4 hour nap in the middle of the day either.

 

[monstermash]

My personal experience w/ Osta sarm-


Pros-
-increased pumps (felt fuller all day too)
-increased recovery
-small yet noticeable increase in strength (recomping)
- *my nagging shoulder felt a lot better
-sex drive was good and erection quality was great

Cons-
-did notice a little puffiness in the nips (no aggravation to minor, pre-existing gyno)
-Joints started to get "clicky" towards the end of cycle
-my BP was high (first time that's ever happened at the docs)


Can't comment on hairloss since I'm pretty bald already and shave my dome. Came off it a couple of days before starting my current AAS cycle (test and Dymethazine). Felt no signs of being shut down- Sex drive was and is still there.

I can comment on prostate since certain AI's and ph's/AAS effect mine. I can say I felt NO prostate issues while using osta. Gonna run S4 in my PCT W/ DAA and clomid.

Just wanted to share my personal experience w/ osta.

I ran it 50mg for 1 week, 25 for 2 and 12.5 for 1 week.

 

[neverstop]

thanks monster, thats interesting that your BP was high. This is great stuff, please keep it coming guys.

The potential help with my joints is a primary reason I'm interested. I swear deca and IGF (and tons of rehab and training) fixed my knee and shoulder

 

[Outstanding]

My personal experience w/ Osta sarm-


Pros-
-increased pumps (felt fuller all day too)
-increased recovery
-small yet noticeable increase in strength (recomping)
- *my nagging shoulder felt a lot better
-sex drive was good and erection quality was great

Cons-
-did notice a little puffiness in the nips (no aggravation to minor, pre-existing gyno)
-Joints started to get "clicky" towards the end of cycle
-my BP was high (first time that's ever happened at the docs

That was a great post, thanks a lot for the information. I have literally experience, one-by-one, all of the effects you listed.

 

[FrozenGR]

I am currently on week 6 of SARM cycle with great results (i am hardly training enough due to several issues that happened unfortunately the past month and still happen around me), running on cycle the above:

Olympus Labs - El1minate (Cycle Support)
Olympus Labs - Ghar1ne (MK-677 Gharine)
Chaos and Pain - MK2866 (Ostarine)
Chaos and Pain - LGD4033 (LGD)

Had bloodtest / hormone test last week (Week 5), results on the bloodtest were OK, hormones on the other side show a huge drop (i am way below the normal levels but fortunately not completely shutdowned) on Free & Open Testosterone (both).

Side Effects:

* Hair Loss is real. No doubt.
* Mood Swings (i get really bad tempered & Moody but that may be also due to the things that happen in my life recently. On any case you can get me upset in a heart beat)
* Lethargy is real. 100%. Almost close to depression. It's hard for me to hit the gym (i feel the need to sleep after work so bad that i can postpone going to get a bath almost for like 3 hours.. saying "i ll go take a shower in 5 minutes" and the time just passes by listening to music), but when i get to the gym i'm ok.. doing my workouts and feeling fine.

* HUGE drop (probably can cause complete shutdown) on Testosterone levels.

The Lethargy is obviously the semi-shutdown on my natural testosterone levels.. i was using a Tribulus supplement past month, now after that checkup i switch to a Testosterone Booster with stack components as Tribulus / Maca / etc..

Btw after a month on SARMS, i can totally vouch the fact that they boost you crazy on the building process (i gained 12 pounds without keeping my diet properly as i have on schedule.. some days i hardly even eat 3 meals), and my body totally changed even tho i almost didn't even try hard on the gym & diet, but regarding the strength and **** i see no difference (i got like 10 ~ 20 pounds higher.. nothing crazy).

 

[jbryand101b]

Looks like the drawback for you is you've stopped eating and training properly. That's not cause of the SARMS though, that's you being lazy

 

[FrozenGR]

Looks like the drawback for you is you've stopped eating and training properly. That's not cause of the SARMS though, that's you being lazy

I never was lazy. It's lethargy due to Testosterone shutdown that causes this.

Regards

 

[jbryand101b]

I never was lazy. It's lethargy due to Testosterone shutdown that causes this.

Regards

Nope, that's just an excuse, truth is its laziness.

Sorry to break this bubble of yours.

 

[FrozenGR]

Nope, that's just an excuse, truth is its laziness.

Sorry to break this bubble of yours.

Whatever you say mate. My past, plus my blood tests & hormone tests... say otherwise. But, i guess you know better Chief!

Cheers

 

[Gutterpump]

Whatever you say mate. My past, plus my blood/hormone tests... say otherwise. But, i guess you know better Chief!

Cheers

He knows everything, he's our forum guru didn't cha know?

 

[FrozenGR]

He knows everything, he's our forum guru didn't cha know?

Sure thing mate.. i just don't need a random to waste my time. I came here to share my experience and contribute to other people's choices by showing the reality as i saw it myself and not from random descriptions on google.

Regards

 

[Gutterpump]

Sure thing mate.. i just don't need a random to waste my time. I came here to share my experience and contribute to other people's choices by showing the reality as i saw it myself and not from random descriptions on google.

Regards

Don't pay attention to him. He thinks he knows everything about everything, but he doesn't, and he's kinda a dick about it.

FWIW though, if you're experiencing lethargy, try some dermacrine. Great stuff when test isn't available.

 

[FrozenGR]

Don't pay attention to him. He thinks he knows everything about everything, but he doesn't, and he's kinda a dick about it.

FWIW though, if you're experiencing lethargy, try some dermacrine. Great stuff when test isn't available.

I saw it already mate.
The guy is basically telling me that while i never was lazy in my whole life AND didn't have Testosterone issue according to my blood & hormone tests prior to Cycle... the results of the ON CYCLE blood & hormone tests are lying.. same is the side effects of lethargy i see on myself.

OOOOOOOOK
It's obviously lethargy due to the shutdown i encounter. Rest are bull**** stories by a guy i don't know which is wasting my time, same as the time of the people that read the thread to find information regarding the subject.

Regards

 

[Gutterpump]

I saw it already mate.
The guy is basically telling me that while i never was lazy in my whole life AND didn't have Testosterone issue according to my blood & hormone tests prior to Cycle... the results of the ON CYCLE blood & hormone tests are lying.. same is the side effects of lethargy i see on myself.

OOOOOOOOK
It's obviously lethargy due to the shutdown i encounter. Rest are bull**** stories by a guy i don't know which is wasting my time, same as the time of the people that read the thread to find information regarding the subject.

Regards

Cheers mate, best of luck with your training. Also fwiw, LGD is well known to cause lethargy.

 

[FrozenGR]

Cheers mate, best of luck with your training. Also fwiw, LGD is well known to cause lethargy.

Unfortunately i had no ****ing idea. And since i guess many others won't as well.. i decided to share my short review regarding the side effects i see on my self lately.

Cheers to you too mate

 

[mw1]

I never was lazy. It's lethargy due to Testosterone shutdown that causes this.

Regards

I can see that ~ Ostarine shut me down more than an PH ever did. There are tons of issues with SARMS( and legality issues) which is why any GMP manufacturer will not touch them

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Unfortunately i had no ****ing idea. And since i guess many others won't as well.. i decided to share my short review regarding the side effects i see on my self lately.

Cheers to you too mate

Yer super stack for lethargy there man, if you choose to ride again, get some dermacrine involved. Makes a world of difference or even leave mk677 till pct.

 

[BlockBuilder]

Yer super stack for lethargy there man, if you choose to ride again, get some dermacrine involved. Makes a world of difference or even leave mk677 till pct.

Yea definitely. I'm sorry but lethargy is so ****ing annoying

 

[jbryand101b]

Lethargy is how you feel. Being tired, drained physically and mentally.
But you still make the choice to not push past it.
I never said anything about you not being lethargic, having hormonal disruption, of how you feel genius.
I said you were lazy.

All who have ran m1t, sd, etc have experienced severe lethargy.

But you still drag your ass into the gym, an get **** done.

It's a choice. Does having your hormones all fcuked up make it harder? Yep.

An gutter is just butt hurt cause he thought your body doesn't make estrogen when on non aromatizable compounds I'm glad he thinks so highly of me to call me a guru though. Although I don't know shiit. Just more than him :lmao:
he's definitely bigger than me though an that's what really counts.

 

[medinacirilo]

My only experiences in the grey area are (1st) an Ostar1ne run about a year ago, and a Diabolix/Stano run this last summer. The Osta shut me down way more then the latter, but lethargy was worse on Diabolix. I could go into way more details on each, but I think SARMS are far more stronger/suppressive then manufacturers want us to believe.

 

[FrozenGR]

Yer super stack for lethargy there man, if you choose to ride again, get some dermacrine involved. Makes a world of difference or even leave mk677 till pct.

I had no idea that stacking that 3 intogether could cause this.. when i was looking on the internet regarding the side effects i would read less harsh things like "MAYBE it will show some hair dropping" .. otherwise i would probably go straight to prohormones.

 

[Gutterpump]

Yea definitely. I'm sorry but lethargy is so ****ing annoying

I may as well add more tips for lethargy in here.

Not sure if people reading this are familiar with tianeptine, but it's been extremely effective for me at fighting off lethargy or motivational issues. Also brightens your mood tremendously. There's a thread or two about it in the nootropics section here.

 

[zimmchel]

I am experiencing extreme lethargy and hair loss. Can't get out of bed in the morning and feel as though i need 15 hrs of sleep to really feel awake.
Muscle recovery is amazing though.

 

[chainsaw]

My issue with Sarms is that they seem very shady. Look on other forums and people are bashing bunk sarms companies. So the issue of who to trust and whose is selling you legit sarms. Just shady people out there. It leaves me not wanting to buy any for lack of proof of what they are selling is certified and tested. Guys taking sarms that are watered down or laced with prohormones.... I did use olympus labs mk677 and I felt that was legit with the heavy sleep, lethargy and water weight gain. I loved it, but they no longer sell it, they also had labs on their ostarine and gw....those too are now gone. Just too much shady stuff associated with sarms. My rant

 

[YoungBodyBuil]

My issue with Sarms is that they seem very shady. Look on other forums and people are bashing bunk sarms companies. So the issue of who to trust and whose is selling you legit sarms. Just shady people out there. It leaves me not wanting to buy any for lack of proof of what they are selling is certified and tested. Guys taking sarms that are watered down or laced with prohormones.... I did use olympus labs mk677 and I felt that was legit with the heavy sleep, lethargy and water weight gain. I loved it, but they no longer sell it, they also had labs on their ostarine and gw....those too are now gone. Just too much shady stuff associated with sarms. My rant

OL is the only brand of SARMs i ever have and ever will run, LGD causes masses lethargy and hair loss still experiencing hair loss 5 weeks post cycle

 

[yates84]

OL is the only brand of SARMs i ever have and ever will run, LGD causes masses lethargy and hair loss still experiencing hair loss 5 weeks post cycle

Hair loss from lgd?

 

[chainsaw]

I hope OL brings back sarms, wish I would of stocked up.

 

[smith_69]

Hair loss from lgd?

yea that's a first for me too