Test E with dbol/sd kickstart and npp

[bigzach1234]

Just checking in with u guys to let u know i've pretty much finalized the plans for my next cycle. The plan is to put on some good mass and size as well as strength! I have everything i need and just started pre-loading some support supps. I def have that aspect in check. Let me know how this lay out looks....
Im gonna go with a low dose d-bol sd bridge.. i feel these complement each other very well.. the sd drys up the d-bol gains and im running the doses low.. im just not sure if i wanna over lap the sd with the d-bol for 2 weeks or just 1, or even maybe go with a happy median of 10 days of sd w/dbol 11 days after! Im leaning towards this:

Weeks 001/002/003/004/005/006/007/008/009/010/011/012/013
Test E- 500/500/500/500/500/500/500/500/750/750/750/750/750/
D-bol- 030/030/030/030/000
Sd- 0000/000/010/010/020
Npp- 000/000/000/000/000/350/350/350/350/350/350/350/350/

*adex as needed
*hcg all cycle starting 2nd week
*i have prami and caber just in case i need them.. i might try a low dose of caber when i start the npp to try it
*i wouldnt mind throwing in some proviron with npp also if i come across some money!


Starting stats: 204.6lbs
Height: 5'9.5
BF%: 11.6%
Deadlift: 405 x 10
Squat: 315 x 12
Bench: i am just getting over a broken hand which pretty much only affected my bench strength.. before break it was 315 x 8... right now im hitting 295 x 10.. so im almost back where i was..
Military db: 100 x 12


So how does this cycle look? Should be good for mass and some size right? Lastly does the layout and dosages look right?
Thanks for the input.. i will log this if people are interested!



Edit also my diet looks something like this..
between 3800-4100 cals daily
around 300g of that from protein
around 200g of carbs
and 200g of fat...

will those macros suffice .. honestly im trying to gain between 20-25lbs... i feel i can easily put on 20 lbs from the dbol/sd portion.. and hopefully sustain and gain around 5lbs more for a total of 25lbs... also i know for a fact i will gain some fat on this bulk.. im not concerned about a few lbs of fat if it means consuming more cals! That being said i eat considerably clean.. with my carb sources mostly from oats, potatoes, fruit, vegtables.... and majority of my protein from turkey, chicken, beef, bison, salmon, tuna... with snacks of pb, almond butter, cottage cheese, healthy yogurt, milk, with whey postworkout... and occasionally before

 

[Yaz]

I personally don't really like your cycle plan, but i definately like the chosen drugs.
Let me make some suggestions if you don't mind:

Weeks 1-12 --> Test E. 500mg/week
Weeks 1-6/8 --> NPP 300-350mg/week
Weeks 1-6 --> D-bol 20-30mg ED
Weeks 9/10-12 --> SD 20-30mg ED
Weeks 1-14 --> Arimidex 0,50mg-1mg EOD OR Aromasin 12,5-25mg ED
Weeks 9-14 --> HCG 250 IU x 2 times/week

PCT
Weeks 15-18 --> Clomid 100 | 75 | 50 | 25mg ED
Weeks 15-18 --> Nolva 40 | 30 | 20 | 10mg ED


Let me explain the logic behind my idea:
- Test a constant normal dose for all the mental/physiological actions at 12 weeks, no more reason for that.
- NPP the first 6-8 weeks at normal dose, this ester has all the benefits when it comes to gains from the classic decanoete ester but without the awful bloating.
- Along with at to make thinks more interesting the d-bol, an exceptional anabolic , great kickstart and goes along as a combo with the above drugs.
- You have 3 aromatizable compounds and a proven great combination of drugs that will produce great gains, and general a more bulky look. That's were SD comes at the last 3-4 weeks of the cycle, a very potent anabolic that many people consider this the strongest mg per mg "dry" oral steroid on the market both in the legal and illegal fields ! This drug will produce great gains even at your intermediate carb intake(considering this drug very carb hungry one) plus will you a very dry/hard look with some very nice fullness along with it. Even though you won't be running any other drugs except Testosterone in that period of time, i really believe your strength - that should have already sky rocket in the former weeks with the other combo of drugs - won't drop and even maybe you continue to get strong.

PS 1) Considering the quality of your physiques and the kind of cycle you want to run, if i were you i would seriously up the protein to 360-400 grams without a questions.
2) Like the the ratio between fats and carbs, very smart - props !
3) If you have any progestin related issues, i would advice you to ahve on hand Pramipexole at 0,25-0,50mg ED OR Bromocriptine at 2,5mg ED.
4) The reason that the first 2 weeks of PCT the Nolva is dosed high is because you'll have a pretty good HPTA shutdown, considering you're be running for 12 weeks, considering the 19-nor you'll be running, considering the SD, considering the total amount of drugs etc ....
5) The above cycle would simply be phenomenal from gains:sides ratio point of view.
6) I would highly suggest some liver/lipid support supplementation, i can make some suggestions if you'd like.
7) Absolutely no use for proviron.

I hope i've helped a little bit ...

 

[bigzach1234]

I personally don't really like your cycle plan, but i definately like the chosen drugs.
Let me make some suggestions if you don't mind:

Weeks 1-12 --> Test E. 500mg/week
Weeks 1-6/8 --> NPP 300-350mg/week
Weeks 1-6 --> D-bol 20-30mg ED
Weeks 9/10-12 --> SD 20-30mg ED
Weeks 1-14 --> Arimidex 0,50mg-1mg EOD OR Aromasin 12,5-25mg ED
Weeks 9-14 --> HCG 250 IU x 2 times/week

PCT
Weeks 15-18 --> Clomid 100 | 75 | 50 | 25mg ED
Weeks 15-18 --> Nolva 40 | 30 | 20 | 10mg ED


Let me explain the logic behind my idea:
- Test a constant normal dose for all the mental/physiological actions at 12 weeks, no more reason for that.
- NPP the first 6-8 weeks at normal dose, this ester has all the benefits when it comes to gains from the classic decanoete ester but without the awful bloating.
- Along with at to make thinks more interesting the d-bol, an exceptional anabolic , great kickstart and goes along as a combo with the above drugs.
- You have 3 aromatizable compounds and a proven great combination of drugs that will produce great gains, and general a more bulky look. That's were SD comes at the last 3-4 weeks of the cycle, a very potent anabolic that many people consider this the strongest mg per mg "dry" oral steroid on the market both in the legal and illegal fields ! This drug will produce great gains even at your intermediate carb intake(considering this drug very carb hungry one) plus will you a very dry/hard look with some very nice fullness along with it. Even though you won't be running any other drugs except Testosterone in that period of time, i really believe your strength - that should have already sky rocket in the former weeks with the other combo of drugs - won't drop and even maybe you continue to get strong.

PS 1) Considering the quality of your physiques and the kind of cycle you want to run, if i were you i would seriously up the protein to 360-400 grams without a questions.
2) Like the the ratio between fats and carbs, very smart - props !
3) If you have any progestin related issues, i would advice you to ahve on hand Pramipexole at 0,25-0,50mg ED OR Bromocriptine at 2,5mg ED.
4) The reason that the first 2 weeks of PCT the Nolva is dosed high is because you'll have a pretty good HPTA shutdown, considering you're be running for 12 weeks, considering the 19-nor you'll be running, considering the SD, considering the total amount of drugs etc ....
5) The above cycle would simply be phenomenal from gains:sides ratio point of view.
6) I would highly suggest some liver/lipid support supplementation, i can make some suggestions if you'd like.
7) Absolutely no use for proviron.

I hope i've helped a little bit ...

Good advice i like that layout alot... im just gonna throw this out there.. i was planning on dropping down the dosage to a cruise dose after around 12 weeks for an undetermined amount of time(prob 6-8 weeks) to help maintain some of my gains for a few weeks while my body adjusts to the extra weight and muscle.. thats why i didnt touch on pct... but i have nolva, torem, and clomid... so i can do any combo, and will def run a very aggressive pct, i have alot of lipid and cycle support.. im taking cycle support, as well as extra r-ala, NAC, policansol, fish oil, vit e, liv 52, vit d, multi, plus lots of oats and olive oil! I do have prami and caber on hand.. so i can use either one.

I was wondering about your lay out for the hcg.. why do u suggest only weeks 9-14 on hcg, do u think running it the whole time will desensitize me?

The reason i was thinking of increasing the test at week 9 is because ive seen a considerable amount of suggestion for changing esters or increasing the amt of test after 8 weeks as your body begins to adjust.. you see this a considerable amount in alot of layouts for pro cycles.

Thanks for your suggestions i do like that layout.. and it will acheive the same thing i was going for, basically bridging the compounds together to maintain gains.


i def planned on upping my protein as i gained weight.. ill be easily up to 400gs if im up 20lbs

Also i dont know if im gonna run the dbol for 6 weeks if ill be running sd a few weeks later at week 9.

 

[Yaz]

I generally disagree with the blast/cruise theory. The body has homeostasis meaning that it's programmed to allow a certain amount of LBM, the trick is to try to keep as much LBM as you can without being in any anabolics .....
Generally people should avoid very long runs of AAS/blast & cruise type of things, cuz the longer you're on the longer it takes for the body to take back and the closer you are to TRT. I think it's pretty stupid for someone to be have the need(!) to be on TRT before he hit his early 30. In conclusion i'm definately against this.

- If you have ever came across to one of my posts in various threads about HCG you may have seen my opinion, but if you did not please let me explain. HCG isn't a nice drug, there are some serious potential sides in the long run, so that's why i recommend it's use under specific circumstances like yours and generally for 6-10 weeks into a cycle, 2-3 times per year. In your case i did it like this because it's a sufficient amount of time to help and it's up right before your PCT.
- Changing esters it's an idea idea that hasn't much logic behind it except if we're talking about pre-contest preparation where the variables are way different. I really don't think you should up the dose or change/add esters, you have a great amount of potential anabolics to do your thing. I understand your way of thinking about the timing(8 weeks), i believe you are talking about the increase in myostatin but that's one of the reasons there's a great anabolic in that specific period of time.
- Just an opinion, very few "pro cycles" are true. And to be honest pro or not i believe the most talented person is the one who will gain the most at the least amount of drugs possible, it isn't only a health thing it's self-respect thing i believe.
- As i said considering the quality of your physique, i would without a doubt use 350-360 grams of protein without even being "on" my friend, you definately need not to understimate the body.
- Liver support NAC/Milk Thistle/Liv 52 it's fine.
- Lipid support Omega 3s at 3-6grams ED (talking EPA/DHA), high fiber at 20-30 grams ED(both diet and supps) and RYR at 2,5grams ED will do the trick.
- Generally while running SD have on hand something for BP like Aspirin 100-200mg ED or Hawthorne Berry and some Taurine at 3-6grams ED for potential back pumps/shin splints etc.

 

[flyhigh69]

yaz i have a couple questions for you since you have been so informative in this thread...

i am currently on day 4 of my cycle, it looks like this

week 1-8 test prop 100mg EOD
week 1-3 SD 10/20/20

this is my first pinning cycle but have run many oral cycles in the past.
my question is do u think my prop mg/week is high enough?? also do u think i should run sd for 10 mg ed for week 4 to kind of bridge back in?? or will i be fine just stopping with 20 on week 3? i have nolva on hand... 5'11" 201 around 10-12 BF%

thanks bro

 

[Yaz]

yaz i have a couple questions for you since you have been so informative in this thread...

i am currently on day 4 of my cycle, it looks like this

week 1-8 test prop 100mg EOD
week 1-3 SD 10/20/20

this is my first pinning cycle but have run many oral cycles in the past.
my question is do u think my prop mg/week is high enough?? also do u think i should run sd for 10 mg ed for week 4 to kind of bridge back in?? or will i be fine just stopping with 20 on week 3? i have nolva on hand... 5'11" 201 around 10-12 BF%

thanks bro

- Yes i believe it's enough, not only for a beginner but in general is a normal/standard dose.

- SD is stronger in most aspects than Epi, i don't think you should consider bridging. Keep the SD for total of 4 weeks starting from 10mg and upping(only if you don't grow) to 30mg. I don't think you should run Prop for 8 weeks but keep it at 6 = stil great gains + easier HPTA recovery.

- BTW this type of cycling is extremely effective/simple/"safer" that i'm suprised riculously few people do it - Test base(short ester) + 1 potent oral anabolic !
Props for the stats, props for the the combo of drugs at your current stats,
you're gonna have great results !

-You should consider if you don't already, some liver/lipid protection supplements.

- Keep carbs to a decent level while running SD.

- What's your PCT like ?

 

[flyhigh69]

- Yes i believe it's enough, not only for a beginner but in general is a normal/standard dose.

- SD is stronger in most aspects than Epi, i don't think you should consider bridging. Keep the SD for total of 4 weeks starting from 10mg and upping(only if you don't grow) to 30mg. I don't think you should run Prop for 8 weeks but keep it at 6 = stil great gains + easier HPTA recovery.

- BTW this type of cycling is extremely effective/simple/"safer" that i'm suprised riculously few people do it - Test base(short ester) + 1 potent oral anabolic !
Props for the stats, props for the the combo of drugs at your current stats,
you're gonna have great results !

-You should consider if you don't already, some liver/lipid protection supplements.

- Keep carbs to a decent level while running SD.

- What's your PCT like ?

thanks for the input..
im going to run nolva 40/40/30/20
possibly clomid
and strong natty test booster

im taking liver formula right now

one more question, first pin i hit my right quad, day after i had a huge leg day, then the next day i pinned in my left quad.... for some reason my left quad (2 days later) still feels super sore.... more like i pulled a muslce in my quad rather than a bruised feeling... do u think this had anything to do with my quads already being sore from leg day when i pinned?? when i pinned in my right quad the soreness was gone by the second day... i tolerate pain well and hate to sound like im bitching but i feel like if this is how everyone feels after pinning in their quad not one person would do it...

thanks for the input bro

 

[Yaz]

thanks for the input..
im going to run nolva 40/40/30/20
possibly clomid
and strong natty test booster

im taking liver formula right now

one more question, first pin i hit my right quad, day after i had a huge leg day, then the next day i pinned in my left quad.... for some reason my left quad (2 days later) still feels super sore.... more like i pulled a muslce in my quad rather than a bruised feeling... do u think this had anything to do with my quads already being sore from leg day when i pinned?? when i pinned in my right quad the soreness was gone by the second day... i tolerate pain well and hate to sound like im bitching but i feel like if this is how everyone feels after pinning in their quad not one person would do it...

thanks for the input bro

I would suggest for PCT:
Weeks 1-4 --> Clomid 100 | 50 | 50 | 25mg ED
Weeks 1-4 --> Nolva 20 | 20 | 20 | 10mg ED
Keep the Test booster.

Generally i would suggest you no matter the cycle always use for PCT Clomid & Nolva in combo, dosages and duration vary because every cycle isn't the same.

Maybe you right quad seems to have gotten used to the pinning possibly due to frequent pinning, but your left hasn't that's because of scar tissue build up or maybe less frequent pinning in comparison to the right quad so it hasn't get used to it yet. Can't tell you for sure, try different parts of the quad and see if that helps. In this type of thing i would suggest you to ask someone who has some practical experience on this.

PS 1) Make a log if you want this is going to be an awesome cycle imo - simple and effective - and i would like to see the process & results.
2) No problem man, glad to help.

 

[flyhigh69]

yeah man i think il start keeping a log, thanks for the advice
its only day 5 and the pumps are out of control... its probably the sd and maybe a little bit from the prop..... either way im very excited to c how my workouts go 2-3 weeks in

 

[Yaz]

yeah man i think il start keeping a log, thanks for the advice
its only day 5 and the pumps are out of control... its probably the sd and maybe a little bit from the prop..... either way im very excited to c how my workouts go 2-3 weeks in

Glad to hear it, can't wait for the log !

 

[schwellington]

watching this man, im very interested in NPP, i used Deca and didnt like the long ester(wait, etc) so im thinking of doing something very similar in november for a 4 month short ester blast



subd

 

[ianm4208]

yaz, y do u suggest keeping the test at 500 throughout? He is already ****ing with his levels by doin a cycle and I believe he brought up the dose of test to 750 because thats when the npp will be running. Ive been taught to keep the test at a 2:1 ratio when running it with a 19-nor. I am not full of knowledge on this subject, nor do I contain the experience that you do, but I was you could address this for me. Thanx

 

[Yaz]

yaz, y do u suggest keeping the test at 500 throughout? He is already ****ing with his levels by doin a cycle and I believe he brought up the dose of test to 750 because thats when the npp will be running. Ive been taught to keep the test at a 2:1 ratio when running it with a 19-nor. I am not full of knowledge on this subject, nor do I contain the experience that you do, but I was you could address this for me. Thanx

The reasoning of it, is because from my point of view Test is the base of every cycle for the mental & physiological actions of the human body. The higher it you get the dose, the less effective will be, that's why someone should always combine Test in a cycle with other potent anabolics. Generally speaking increasing the total amount of mgs/week doesn't mean necessary more LBM you will get. The "key" is to grow as much as you can with the least amount of drugs pissible - i'm a fan of the "less is more" theory.

To answer the 19nor question, let me just tell you that the 2:1 ratio of Deca:Test, doesn't have any specific reason, it's bro-scientific(not bashing on the contrary ..) a rule of thumb for not getting sexual disfunction while running 19-nor derivatives.
It isn't wrong but it isn't right, it's just a rule of thumb.
Another rule of thumb of mine this time, is to use more Test than 19-nor into a cycle, doesn't have to be a specific ratio.

I hope i helped you understand.

 

[ianm4208]

u most certianly did help me understand. thank you for sharing your knowledge. Reps n i sent you a pm with more questions (didnt wanna thread jack)
Good luck zach

 

[DevlinRD]

i was also going to be running dbol and testE, a 10 week cycle though, and dbol for 4 weeks. this cycle will catch the last week of my trenazone as well, which i dont feel is that bad since its transdermal except sides are a bitch on it. but i was contemplating what to run the last couple weeks, so mine will be shorter, and i like your theory Yaz on superdrol for the end, which ive already ran a cycle of before and handled it well. my cycle would look like this

testE - weeks 1-10 @ 500mg every week
Dbol - weeks 1-4 @ 30mg every day
Sdrol - weeks 7-10 @ 20mg every day

i have a serm on hand for any sides/pct, i dont really feel hcg would be necissary. this thread was a good read

 

[Yaz]

i was also going to be running dbol and testE, a 10 week cycle though, and dbol for 4 weeks. this cycle will catch the last week of my trenazone as well, which i dont feel is that bad since its transdermal except sides are a bitch on it. but i was contemplating what to run the last couple weeks, so mine will be shorter, and i like your theory Yaz on superdrol for the end, which ive already ran a cycle of before and handled it well. my cycle would look like this

testE - weeks 1-10 @ 500mg every week
Dbol - weeks 1-4 @ 30mg every day
Sdrol - weeks 7-10 @ 20mg every day

i have a serm on hand for any sides/pct, i dont really feel hcg would be necissary. this thread was a good read

That's a nice plan.

- Run an AI Weeks 1-12 like Aromasin at 12,5-25mg ED OR Arimidex 0,50-1mg EOD.

- IMO HCG in this type of cycle is complete unecessary.

- What's your PCT plan ?

 

[DevlinRD]

That's a nice plan.

- Run an AI Weeks 1-12 like Aromasin at 12,5-25mg ED OR Arimidex 0,50-1mg EOD.

- IMO HCG in this type of cycle is complete unecessary.

- What's your PCT plan ?

thanks for the input man. for pct i was going to run nolva and probably add clomid, since my birthday will be shortly after the cycle and during the summer and im single...need my boys back for a good time haha. but also creatine, viridex xt or p6 test booster starting second week of pct.

 

[schwellington]

Yaz is correct about the 2:1 ration with nors and test. Test will not mitigate "deca ****" no matter how high it is run, and this is because of nandrolones specific actions on certain receptors, and enzymes.

 

[Wandy]

man your cycle plan looks like the matrix. looks great for a bulker, lots of fats and lots of test. 25lbs is very much within the realm of possibility of which ~5lbs will be water/fat.