H-drol HDL Levels(extremely low)
- 03-14-2011, 09:50 PM
H-drol HDL Levels(extremely low)
I've been running a 5 week cycle of Helladrol (50/50/75/100/100). Supplemented with cycle assist, fish oil, multi-vitamins, taurine. Had blood work done a few days ago and the results are in. My HDL was a 6, and no it isn't a typo, doctor has checked. Obviously, I'm stopping my cycle short and running my PCT asap (clomid -50/50/50/50, PCT assist, creatine). Is there anything else I should be worried about? As well as, is there anything I can add to help up my HDL.
- I'm 22, 6'1, 225
- 03-14-2011, 10:33 PM
03-14-2011, 10:48 PM
03-14-2011, 10:57 PM
That is horribly low. As stated above, get started on a niacin regimen (Slo-Niacin is good). Don't use "non-flushing" niacin as it doesn't help with HDL.
Make sure you're doing cardio and eating clean.
Your health is more important than a few pounds of muscle.
03-14-2011, 11:03 PM
03-15-2011, 12:26 AM
03-15-2011, 12:31 AM
03-15-2011, 01:10 AM
That's scary dude but try not to freak out. There is lots of research showing these kind of lipid alterations from AAS and they seem to go back to normal. It will probably take a few months but they will get there.
It's also important to point out the distinction between atherosclerosis, risk of a cardiac event, and abnormal lab values. Atherosclerosis takes years to develop and I'm not aware of any research linking a few months of ****ty lipids with an increased lifetime cardiovascular risk. If you've ran a ton of cycles over the years, I'd bet you are at increased risk but if you've only ran a few it may be insignificant.
I totally agree with jaydollars that if more people, myself included, checked their lipids mid-cycle we would see this more often.
How did you handle it with the doc? Did you tell him what you took? Did he give you a script or did he just tell you to stop?
I assume you will be getting a few follow up lipid panels in the coming months. Please post them so we can all learn.
03-15-2011, 01:27 AM
03-15-2011, 02:32 AM
03-15-2011, 02:37 AM
03-15-2011, 08:35 AM
IMHO it's unlikely to get that results even mid cycle from this drug. Drugs that usually destroy this much your HDL are the classics Winstrol and Anavar, never seen anything like this with H-Drol and similar compounds like T-bol, D-bol etc. Even with drugs like a SD,Anadrol the usual ranges i have seen are not below 10-15 ....
I believe that your HDL was already low before the cycle and that's were you are mistaken, you should never go into a cycle without previous bloodwork and values within normal ranges, because without a baseline after cycle bloodwork won't be at any good use.
I would recommend Omega 3s at 3-6 grams ED(talking about only EPA/DHA), Red Yeast Rice at 2,5-3 grams ED, High Fiber(both from diet and supps) shoot for a total 20-30grams ED and obviously 2-3 hours cardio/week at least.
The above will certainly help you recover sooner and return your HDL within normal ranges in about 2-3 months i believe.
All information provided by me is for research & entertainment purposes only.
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03-15-2011, 11:23 AM
03-15-2011, 02:22 PM
all potential side effects should be expected.
it's like that law thingy, if it can go wrong, it will or w/e.
and if you dont experience a side effect, you got lucky!
03-15-2011, 02:45 PM
I'm getting new blood-work done this Thursday so I'll keep the thread updated when I get the results.
03-15-2011, 03:05 PM
blood work will be useless to tell you anything unless you have pre cycle blood work.
only thing it's going to let you know is how you compare to what is normal for males of your age/race
but those number may not be what is normal for you personally.
03-15-2011, 03:09 PM
03-15-2011, 03:16 PM
03-15-2011, 04:50 PM
[QUOTE=shem;2794119]I've been running a 5 week cycle of Helladrol (50/50/75/100/100). Supplemented with cycle assist, fish oil, multi-vitamins, taurine. Had blood work done a few days ago and the results are in. My HDL was a 6, and no it isn't a typo, doctor has checked. Obviously, I'm stopping my cycle short and running my PCT asap (clomid -50/50/50/50, PCT assist, creatine). Is there anything else I should be worried about? As well as, is there anything I can add to help up my HDL.
- I'm 22, 6'1, 225[/QUOTE
what were your LDL levels, just wondering?
VO2 Max = 58.75mL/kg/min
~If Difficult takes a day, impossible takes a week~
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03-15-2011, 05:24 PM
03-15-2011, 05:32 PM
looks like you need to stay away from aas, and focus all your attention on lowering your bad cholesterol and significantly increasing your good.
I'm talking extreme measures, like all veggie diet, various forms of intense exercise, and supplements.
steroids just aren't for some people. I'd say it's a pretty safe bet you weren't really healthy to begin with, but without pre cycle baseline blood work, who knows what kind of shape your insides were.
03-15-2011, 05:52 PM
Add 900mg Pantethine per day. (not pantothenic acid).
Its got some good backing for liver and lipids improvement.
"I am on a drug, it's called Charlie Sheen. It's not available, 'cause if you try it once, you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body." - Charlie Sheen
03-15-2011, 06:17 PM
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03-15-2011, 06:29 PM
03-16-2011, 11:04 AM
HDL of 6, I can beat that. Mine was down to 3.
My normal lipids were 210 ttl; ldl 185; hdl 25. Last summer my family doc put me on simcor (simvistatin + niacin). After 2 months I got sick, my liver enzymes were thru the roof, and my new lipids were ttl 137; ldl 134 and hdl 3. Took me off that, then late December he gave me the lowest dose of crestor possible and within 5 days I was so sick I couldn’t move. So I guess statins may not be for me. That would include red yeast rice because it has the same mechanism.
January I had to have a quadruple bypass (almost died), so I guess it’s time take it really seriously. To that end I did 5 days of cardio (wasn’t allowed to lift for awhile, anyway) and bumped my fish oil up to 5 gms a day (AHA recommendation) and 1.5 gms of krill oil, and 500mg of niacin. Fish oil is only claimed to lower cholesterol by 10% which isn’t enough, but there are some studies that krill can lower by 30%. I’ve done 1.5 gms of plain niacin in the past with good results but it gives me insomnia.
My lipids after only 1 month were ttl 198; ldl 147; hdl 51; I had lower ttl taking the 1.5 gms of niacin but never an HDL of 51. If I can get it to 59 it becomes a negative risk factor. My cardiologist still wants to put me on Lipitor, I declined in order to see what I could do naturally first. My surgeon and my wife disagree with my cardiologist, anyway.
Even though what works for me, may not for you my recommendation is:
Statins should be your last resort.
You may get good results naturally:
5gms of fish oil,
1.0-1.5 gms of krill,
cardio (now that I can lift I’m gonna see if I can get away with 3 days of cardio)
Niacin – any niacin will do if you don’t mind the flush that comes with it (I’ve bumped it up to 600 mg/day).
Whatever you do, get frequent blood work especially if there is a family history of cholesterol/heart disease.
It might seem like a lot, but you can’t lift without a heart.
Last edited by DBinMD; 03-16-2011 at 11:49 AM. Reason: typos
03-16-2011, 12:09 PM
03-16-2011, 12:40 PM
Well, at this point you donít know what the cause is. Iíve seen some wacky stuff out there. I have a niece thatís 28 and has a cholesterol level of 500 and Iím sure sheís never done any anabolics. Youíll need to get a normal reading before you can make a fully informed decision; Iím not sure how long that takes. You may need to do it frequently especially if you participate in anything risky. Donít assume the anabolics were sole cause of your problems. I plan on getting my blood work done about every 3 months.
The liver stress mentioned previously may have had something to do with it. I say this because your numbers looked like mine when I almost lost my liver to the statins.
03-16-2011, 05:46 PM
Start eating a lot of saturated fats (coconut oil and animal fat are my favorites). There are tons of studies that suggest that this will increase your HDL. Of course, stay away from simple carbs and processed food in general as they are the main culprit behind atherosclerosis (as well as smoking of course). Keeping insulin and blood sugar under control for heart health is overlooked way, way too often. Can't blame cholesterol for doing it's job when it tries to repair your damaged arteries! And for the love of god, please please do tons of scientific research before ever considering taking a statin regardless of what anyone tells you
03-16-2011, 07:48 PM
I'm skeptical about eating lots of sat fats to increase HDL. I made a cursory search and saw some of those studies. I'm not qualified to evaluate them. However, my peeps at Johns Hopkins say just the opposite and, since I can personally vouch for their work, I'm going to make an effort to be careful about them .
03-16-2011, 08:26 PM
what is the debate?
its common knowledge that saturated fats increase HDL. its also common knowledge that they increase LDL. the OPs ldl:hdl ratio is ALREADY TERRIBLE.
UNsaturated fats lower ldl and raise hdl. this is what you need. - along with polyphenols to help raise hdl.
For me, the action IS the juice.
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