PP's Tbol or Needto's Epi

antknee02

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hey guys,

im trying to figure out which to go with- i have both, but im gonna sell the one i dont use to a buddy. im wanting to know which is harsher in terms of shut down, BP, liver and i guess lipids..
im going to be trying to gain some mass back ( been sick and had a few injuries- im about 10lbs light ) and add some additional muscle and strength..lifting for 18yrs or so, in the past had a 400+ bench, 18.5 arms, 50 chest and im trying to come close to those again..right now im about 340 bench, a hair under 18 arms and 48 chest, im 42 in May and im 5'8 205lb right now. i have an older profile 'antknee' you can search- that id is jammed up for some reason and i cant use it. due to injury i havent done legs in a looooong time so there is weight gain potential there too..

so in addition to info on which is worse, sides wise, which do you think could give the best combo of size and strength, assuming diet is straight.

oh, if i run epi ill be using dermacrine as a base..

thanks!
 
BigBlackGuy

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Shutdown is going to be around the same and really depends on dosage and how long you're on and how good your ancillaries are (in terms of PCT).

I would go with the epistane + dermacrine. If you ended up running the oral turinabol, I'd suggest getting androhard for a base.
 
antknee02

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thanks for the input...im really leaning towards your suggestion. id be running a low dose, i think. pct the TRS has always been good to my and id like to not run any research chems..just maybe add tcf , erase and a t booster. besides the usual bp, liver supps any other suggestions on the ancillaries?
 
BigBlackGuy

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thanks for the input...im really leaning towards your suggestion. id be running a low dose, i think. pct the TRS has always been good to my and id like to not run any research chems..just maybe add tcf , erase and a t booster. besides the usual bp, liver supps any other suggestions on the ancillaries?
I really suggest the use of a SERM. Especially if going over 4 weeks. Everyone else will say that same I'm sure.

Have you ordered the TRS yet? I'd suggest getting TCF-1 as well if you are only going to run OTC products. Liver supps, you can go with liver juice, but a complete product for ancillaries is CEL's Cycle Assist. Can't really beat it, tbh.

Liver Juice is just for extra liver protection, due to milk thistle's poor bioavailbility, our LV technology should help get a bit more in the system.
 
antknee02

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i was throwing the idea of torem around as i dont like nolva or clomid..i will probably go that way but i need to do more homework on it si i didnt want to say i was going to use it.

i have some cycle assist as well..and hawthorn, liver longer..

funny, one of the best pct's i had was diesel's 3 kings stack and the TRS..

thanks again for the info, man
 
ryansm

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i was throwing the idea of torem around as i dont like nolva or clomid..i will probably go that way but i need to do more homework on it si i didnt want to say i was going to use it.

i have some cycle assist as well..and hawthorn, liver longer..

funny, one of the best pct's i had was diesel's 3 kings stack and the TRS..

thanks again for the info, man
Torem is a great decision for a SERM, and the combo with the TRS is the best PCT out there imo.
 
jbryand101b

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it is common sense to know epistane will cause more hpta disruption than cdma (hd) if you run both for typical dosages/length they are ran at.
 
jbryand101b

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it is a more potent compound than cdma. I would imagine without looking at any data, the more powerful an androgen is, the more it will effect hpta function.
 
BigBlackGuy

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it is a more potent compound than cdma. I would imagine without looking at any data, the more powerful an androgen is, the more it will effect hpta function.
I'm thinking lately, since PA mentioned chlorodehydromethylandrostenediol has the tendency to raise estrogen (effects on cycle negated by androgens) that it could cause shutdown more rapidly. But I'm no expert of course.
 

Bry17

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I'm thinking lately, since PA mentioned chlorodehydromethylandrostenediol has the tendency to raise estrogen (effects on cycle negated by androgens) that it could cause shutdown more rapidly. But I'm no expert of course.
Epi would (theoretically) have the same tendency, because it is an androgen as well. Degree of shutdown cannot be measured this way, unless one upregulates aromatase more so than another
 
jbryand101b

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well, I think in order to have an answer to henry's question, I would need a study comparing 6 weeks of epistane @ 30mg e/d vs 6 weeks of cdma @ 50mg e/d.

I guess I should say it is my hypothesis that hpta function would be less effected from the hd.

tbol has been shown in therapuetic dosages to have minimal effect on hpta shutdown, so it would seem resonable cdma would as well.
 
BigBlackGuy

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Hmm. Would the half-life of the steroid also have an effect on how hard it shuts someone down? AFAIK, having stable blood levels will shut you down faster than only having high hormone levels in the morning.
 
jbryand101b

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Hmm. Would the half-life of the steroid also have an effect on how hard it shuts someone down? AFAIK, having stable blood levels will shut you down faster than only having high hormone levels in the morning.
I dont think so, I believe it has more to do with how strongly the steroids binds with, and interacts with the androgen receptors.

Esp. the ones located within the hypothalamus.

turinabol has been said to have week binding/interaction with the ar, but is able to influence it's effects d/t it's long half life of 12-14 hours.
 
chocolatemilk

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Epi will be stronger compound for compound. As far as sides, it won't be much worse than Halodrol. They are pretty even from the bloodwork I have seen in terms of shutdown and liver enzymes but the general consensus is Epi is stronger for gains than Halodrol.

If you have ran both in the past, make your decision based on that. If not, I would choose Epistane over Halodrol. I myself have not run Halodrol so I'm biased towards Epi although I have been itching to try the Halo.
 

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