adding ethynyl estradiol to Havoc/Epi for estrogen for my joints

[DangerouStyle]

Would adding a oral contraceptive like ethynl estradiol help my joints while on a Havoc and tren-x cycle.
Ethynylestradiol pronounced also ethynyl estradiol (EE), is a derivative of estradiol. Ethynyl estradiol is an orally bio-active estrogen used in almost all modern formulations of combined oral contraceptive pills. It is one of the most commonly used medications.

I got some Microgynon 30 ED which contains: ethinyloestradiol; levonorgestrel

 

[bakerderek0]

very interesting. anyone know?

 

[VaughnTrue]

Havoc does not lower estrogen like most people claim.


The entire theory that is does is based on the fact that the unmethylated(and illegal) version does. However, when methylating a compound, significant changes occur that alter the action of the hormone considerably.


I use this analogy quite often, but its the easiest way to explain it.


There is a compound used by many bodybuilders known as Equipose. Its more common name is Boldenone, and its nomenclature is 1,4-androstadiene-3-one-17β-ol.

This compound is similar to testosterone, however it displays a less estrogenic environment than testosterone. So while it can convert to estrogen, it does so very very slightly.

Now, lets modify the compound slightly. Say...methylate the 17th position(the same as is done to non-methyl Epi, to turn it into Epistane/Havoc).

When we do this we are left with the following molecule: 17a-Methyl-1,4-androstadiene-3-one-17β-ol.

Does this compound look familiar? It should...it's better known as Dianabol, or D-bol.


While this compound is only a single step away from Boldenone, it is now capable of converting to significant amount of estrogen. Just 1 simple alteration and we have a completely different ingredient/compound/drug.



When methylating epi, we get a completely new compound as well. There is ZERO evidence that Epistane/Havoc can decrease estrogen...none. They are simply referencing the study on the non-methyl version.


apples vs oranges

 

[fightbackhxc]

wrong section. If you post in anabolics you might get a better response

 

[DangerouStyle]

Why do people say havoc causes sore joints?
I going to add some DHEA and Pregnenolone

 

[chocolatemilk]

Estrogen is made from testosterone. Taking Havoc significantly reduces testosterone and in doing so will reduce estrogen. Non-aromatizing compounds will do this.

Ruthless supps is coming out with an extremely potent DHEA transdermal that can be used for this and will probably be at nutra. Won't be out for a month or so tho

 

[specmike]

Why not just use the bulk cissus that is highly recommended here? That combined with a regular joint support formula should do the trick. It's only 6-8 weeks, right?

 

[VaughnTrue]

Why do people say havoc causes sore joints?
I going to add some DHEA and Pregnenolone

I think it's a mix of two to three things:


#1 - Increased strength - My joints hurt any time I push more weight than normal. When using anabolics, most people want to gain as much as possible as quickly as possible. As a result, they push their bodies harder than normal. In addition to this, muscle is able to adapt much more quickly to increase weight than your joints, tendons, and ligaments. As a result, you get stronger and lift more weight, but your joints hurt.

#2 - Placebo effect. Companies have been claiming it will lower estrogen since the start, so most people simply assume their joints SHOULD hurt, and as a result they really think they do hurt.

#3 - It actually does lower estrogen. I'm not saying this compound CAN'T lower estrogen, I'm simply stating that there is absolutely zero evidence of it as of right now.

 

[chocolatemilk]

I think it's a mix of two to three things:


#1 - Increased strength - My joints hurt any time I push more weight than normal. When using anabolics, most people want to gain as much as possible as quickly as possible. As a result, they push their bodies harder than normal. In addition to this, muscle is able to adapt much more quickly to increase weight than your joints, tendons, and ligaments. As a result, you get stronger and lift more weight, but your joints hurt.

#2 - Placebo effect. Companies have been claiming it will lower estrogen since the start, so most people simply assume their joints SHOULD hurt, and as a result they really think they do hurt.

#3 - It actually does lower estrogen. I'm not saying this compound CAN'T lower estrogen, I'm simply stating that there is absolutely zero evidence of it as of right now.

Its the 3rd and somewhat the 1st. I assure you hurting joints on Epi is real. What you explained in your first post was in regards to epi being an AI which you are correct it is not.