First Test cycle with Mdrol/Hdrol LOG

[itsgroll]

with a lot of research and the help from crazychemist and unrealmachine i am ready for my first test cycle!

my background:
competitive Natural Bodybuilder for 4 years. I have won debute, novice and open class. Its now time to step my game up in order to compete with the big boys down in NPC FL. I am 24 years old, and have for the last year tried 2 6 week oral cycles of Hdrol and Mdrol. Both were good, but not to my satisfaction. I need to raise the bar. I have a BS in kinesiology and nutrition so i understand most of the chemistry going on with this cycle. My future plans are to run 3 18 week cycles, this being my first, and then getting back on stage late 2012. I will be logging everything from nutrition, emotions, body stats, lifts and supplements. Pics will come later.

everything has been ordered, i will begin mid Feb.

Now, the cycle will be the following:

2 weeks prior to starting: CEL Cycle Assist
Week 1-4: CEL M-DROL 10/20/30/30
Week 1-12: Test E 250 Mondays & Thursday Mornings
Week 3-12: hCG 250iu Mondays & Thursday Evening
Week 9-14: CEL H-DROL 50/75/75/75/100/100
Week 14: Clomid @200 for 4 days, & @150 for 3days
Week 15-17: Clomid 100/50/25
Week 14-17: Sustain Alpha & Lean Extreme

additional supps that will be throughout the cycle are creatine mono for post workout, pre workout N.O, and intra workout Xtend, beta Alanine for pre workout and breakfast, multi for breakfast.

i hope to have people follow along this journey.....it should get interesting

 

[neverstop]

looks smart and well thought out. let's see some before and after pics!

 

[CrazyChemist]

aight bro - looking forward to seeing you tear this one up. Have some adex on hand thru out cycle too

 

[itsgroll]

aight bro - looking forward to seeing you tear this one up. Have some adex on hand thru out cycle too

Adex?

 

[MidwestBeast]

Adex?

http://www.steroid.com/Arimidex.php

 

[jbryand101b]

in before someone says wrong section


oops...

 

[itsgroll]

in before someone says wrong section


oops...

Sorry, but when I start the cycle and log we can move the thread.

 

[CrazyChemist]

in before someone says wrong section


oops...

whatev - hdrol mdrol PH DS AAS - lets see the OP tear it up. I wanna see awesomeness.

Adex?

Adex is an aromatase inhibitor (AI). Test of any kind will convert to estrogen via the aromatase enzyme. Essentially the aromatase hugs the test and when it leaves the test has been converted to estrogen. Introduce a ton of test and the body responds by making a ton of aromatase enzyme, converting all your new testosterone to estrogen :sad:

So you take something, a molecule (an AI), that likes to give the aromatase enzyme an even bigger hug than the test. If the AI is already there, hugging the aromatase, then the aromatase cant hug your test and, by extension, cant convert it to estro. Got it?

EDIT: Although too much estro will yield negative side effects, no estro yields negative side effects too. So you want to titrate your dosage of an AI to moderate your estro and test levels to optimal levels.

 

[jbryand101b]

whatev - hdrol mdrol PH DS AAS - lets see the OP tear it up. I wanna see awesomeness.

:wtf:

:28:












































































































:lmao:

 

[UnrealMachine]

hmm dunno if i missed it earlier, but clomid and SA should start week 15, when halodrol is done

 

[itsgroll]

hmm dunno if i missed it earlier, but clomid and SA should start week 15, when halodrol is done

Your right, that was a typo. Good eyes!

 

[CrazyChemist]

hmm dunno if i missed it earlier, but clomid and SA should start week 15, when halodrol is done

missed that too - no gap needed between end of the cycle and start of pct when ur running something during those 2 weeks of clearance.

 

[gymrat827]

Up the h drol

 

[CrazyChemist]

Up the h drol

hes got the hdrol left over and he just using it while the test e clears out

 

[Hustlers]

subbed

 

[indianballer]

I'm doing the exact same thing except using Proto-max for a finisher. My PCT looks a little different too, but so far I'm at the end of week 4 and I'm up 15 lbs. good luck bro.

 

[schwellington]

wuts pct?

 

[itsgroll]

I'm doing the exact same thing except using Proto-max for a finisher. My PCT looks a little different too, but so far I'm at the end of week 4 and I'm up 15 lbs. good luck bro.

Great I'm excited...I've been giving the hCG a second thought though, I might skip that. Are you including that in your cycle?

 

[derker2008]

Question....why r u starting HCG on week 3? I'm not sure but I thought HCG would start day 4 or so during week 1 and ran same weeks as the Test (i.e. weeks1-10)? Can someone please explain/clarify...

 

[jbryand101b]

wuts pct?

pre creatine treatment. duh.

 

[schwellington]

pre creatine treatment. duh.

damn I need to research that

THANKS BRO! :grouphug: :stick:

 

[indianballer]

Great I'm excited...I've been giving the hCG a second thought though, I might skip that. Are you including that in your cycle?

i have 5000iu's of it on hand but I'm holding off until I really need it. I'd rather not use it as I've heard it can aggravate gyno and I'm trying not to use my arimidex unless I absolutely need that as well. I'm going for pure bulk so estrogen is my friend unless it becomes an issue.

 

[itsgroll]

i have 5000iu's of it on hand but I'm holding off until I really need it. I'd rather not use it as I've heard it can aggravate gyno and I'm trying not to use my arimidex unless I absolutely need that as well. I'm going for pure bulk so estrogen is my friend unless it becomes an issue.

what would qualify for really needing it?

 

[jbryand101b]

what would qualify for really needing it?

using steroids.

same question could be asked about PCT & what would qualify for needing it.

it's like wiping your azz, you dont "need" to do it, but i'd strongly recomend it, esp if your going on a date.... :lmao:

 

[itsgroll]

using steroids.

same question could be asked about PCT & what would qualify for needing it.

it's like wiping your azz, you dont "need" to do it, but i'd strongly recomend it, esp if your going on a date.... :lmao:

yes i know, but i was wandering why someone else said they were taking test e and orals and said they would only take hCG is they really need it.

 

[itsgroll]

using steroids.

same question could be asked about PCT & what would qualify for needing it.

it's like wiping your azz, you dont "need" to do it, but i'd strongly recomend it, esp if your going on a date.... :lmao:

actually...smart ass, if your so ****y, whats the scientific reason WHY you HAVE TO TAKE hCG if on steroids?

http://www.steroid.com/HCG.php

 

[indianballer]

I honestly don't understand what's so terrible about having small balls for a few months. As long as I'm producing semen during sex, I'm not worried about it. I've read too many logs where as soon as they took their first dose of hcg they're nipples started acting up and they had to use an AI. I am completely against killing off estrogen for this cycle unless it becomes a problem.

 

[jbryand101b]

yes i know, but i was wandering why someone else said they were taking test e and orals and said they would only take hCG is they really need it.

actually...smart ass, if your so ****y, whats the scientific reason WHY you HAVE TO TAKE hCG if on steroids?

HCG human chorionic gonadotropin Anabolic SteroidnbspProfiles - Steroid . com

:wtf:

I'm not even going to answer that question for you. I think you need counseling. but i did neg you.

:squintfinger:

 

[jbryand101b]

I honestly don't understand what's so terrible about having small balls for a few months. As long as I'm producing semen during sex, I'm not worried about it. I've read too many logs where as soon as they took their first dose of hcg they're nipples started acting up and they had to use an AI. I am completely against killing off estrogen for this cycle unless it becomes a problem.

it's a personal preference. some like to use it on cycle, others use it post cycle. it just depends on what method works best for you.

 

[derker2008]

itsgroll - so what do you say buddy, why are you starting HCG in week 3 and not week 1-day 4?? I'm curious b/c I'm researching my first Test E Cycle. Can we get some advice from somebody with experience using HCG??

 

[CrazyChemist]

Question....why r u starting HCG on week 3? I'm not sure but I thought HCG would start day 4 or so during week 1 and ran same weeks as the Test (i.e. weeks1-10)? Can someone please explain/clarify...

see write-up on hcg in my autosignature thread below

 

[jbryand101b]

Can we get some advice from somebody with experience using HCG??

:gotsearch

 

[itsgroll]

itsgroll - so what do you say buddy, why are you starting HCG in week 3 and not week 1-day 4?? I'm curious b/c I'm researching my first Test E Cycle. Can we get some advice from somebody with experience using HCG??

I don't have experience with hCG...from research ad from the help from crazy chemist and unrealmachine, it makes sence to start hCG in week 3. When injecting test it takes avg of 3 weeks to build up and actually be effective, hence why I'm using peals in week 1-4 to kick start my cycle. Why use hCG in week 1-3 when my test levels aren't high ad it's not needed

 

[jbryand101b]

exogenous administered testosterone begins working on the first injection fyi.

at least, according to patrick arnold. but what does he know?

 

[CrazyChemist]

exogenous administered testosterone begins working on the first injection fyi.

at least, according to patrick arnold. but what does he know?

Testosterone esters bind androgenic receptors over a gaussian distribution of time (actually a skewed gaussian but thats not specifically important). Bottom line, the first few weeks the exogeneous testosterone long ester is still mostly in its inactive form.

 

[itsgroll]

a little of topic but....can you develop joint pain during this cycle? I remeber when i was on orals for 8 weeks, around week 5 my elbows and knees begain to ache

 

[jbryand101b]

Testosterone esters bind androgenic receptors over a gaussian distribution of time (actually a skewed gaussian but thats not specifically important). Bottom line, the first few weeks the exogeneous testosterone long ester is still mostly in its inactive form.

esterfied testosterone builds a pocket in the muscle it was injected into, and is slowly released into the blood stream.

this release begins as soon as the drug is injected.

as soon as the esterfied compound is in the blood stream, enzymes quickly remove the ester, leaving active compound to do what it does.

 

[itsgroll]

still waiting on shipping....looks like the cycle wont start on time. Im planning on March 1

 

[CrazyChemist]

esterfied testosterone builds a pocket in the muscle it was injected into, and is slowly released into the blood stream.

this release begins as soon as the drug is injected.

as soon as the esterfied compound is in the blood stream, enzymes quickly remove the ester, leaving active compound to do what it does.

This is simply not true and not sure where you heard it. Its actually wrong in every aspect.

The fact that the testosterone is esterified has nothing to do with any sort of bulge or soreness in the muscle after injection. As a matter of fact, the esterified testosterone is almost immediately distributed throughout the body and the "pocket" is the solvent used to suspend the test (usually grapeseed oil or an equivalent) and also some agents used to maintain sterility to prevent infection (these are what cause the soreness usually).

The hydrolysis of the ester, which prevents binding of the testosterone to the androgen receptor, occurs subsequently at a pace determined by the rate of steric hindrance about the site of the ester linkage. This is why short esters dissociate faster than longer esters.

Even if you were correct about the muscle pocket theory you proposed, it would still not invalidate my point that 1) a kickstart is a good idea on a test e cycle and 2) hCG is not needed from week 1 - which were the points we were discussing, I believe (your muscle pocket theory also doesn't invalidate my claim that the amount of active test forms a skewed gaussian concentration with time). Any small amounts of exogeneous test IME dont get the pump on till week 3 or 4, so I like the kickstart. Regarding the hCG, its well accepted that over time the body builds a tolerance to hCG and larger doses are needed. Therefore, it is not good practice to take hCG before needed, I recommend week 3 and stop when starting pct. I present my bloodwork as supporting evidence for success in that protocol.

But hey, I'm just in my last year of my PhD in biophysics so if Patrick Arnold supports the muscle pocket theory then I guess I'm wrong.

 

[jbryand101b]

im in no place to say you are wrong crazy, I know you know a good bit, and enjoy discussing info with you.

I only know what i read from others, it is my job (and others) who read the info put out by those more knowledgable than ourselves, to research the data, and then decide for ourselves what we believe to be true (or closest to it).

thank you for your perspective.

(and I'm not saying I dont agree with using a compound with much more anabolic abilities to help kick start a cycle, i do, the faster those genes & muscle building process is turned on, the faster it can begin the proces of building muscle tissue)

 

[CrazyChemist]

im in no place to say you are wrong crazy, I know you know a good bit, and enjoy discussing info with you.

I only know what i read from others, it is my job (and others) who read the info put out by those more knowledgable than ourselves, to research the data, and then decide for ourselves what we believe to be true (or closest to it).

thank you for your perspective.

(and I'm not saying I dont agree with using a compound with much more anabolic abilities to help kick start a cycle, i do, the faster those genes & muscle building process is turned on, the faster it can begin the proces of building muscle tissue)

reps - mightve come off a little aggressive there in retrospect.... i think we're on the same page now :biggthumpup:

 

[indianballer]

blame it on the test. lots of good info in this thread. reps to all.

 

[itsgroll]

blame it on the test. lots of good info in this thread. reps to all.

Still waiting on test only

 

[indianballer]

I was tellin CrazyChemist to blame it on the test because he thought he came off aggressive. But you're gonna love your cycle bro. I'm into week 6 of mine and couldn't have expected more up to this point. I've fallen in love with test I think.

 

[itsgroll]

I was tellin CrazyChemist to blame it on the test because he thought he came off aggressive. But you're gonna love your cycle bro. I'm into week 6 of mine and couldn't have expected more up to this point. I've fallen in love with test I think.

great! im looking forward to it!