Cartilage tear in shoulder, cannot be repaired with surgery!! *HELP*

[kadafee]

Ok heres the back story guys.



i was a competitive amateur boxer and also enjoyed lifting weights once in a week, one morning i woke up with pain on my left shoulder, didnt think much of it, the pain lasted for a while so went to get it checked out, doctor sent me to physio it didn't work so went to an orthopedic surgeon, had an xray and mri scan and found nothing, 8 weeks ago i had arthroscopic surgery to see whats really wrong, surgeon found a tiny cartilage tear on the edge of the shoulder socket (glenoid, not the labrum), he said its not surgically repairable and would have to let it heal on it own and do some more physio therapy in the mean time.



i have been out from doing any kind of physical activity for nearly 2 years now, my shoulder is irritating and hurting, it is so frustrating i can not even explain.



i am looking for any kind of anabolic steroids or GH that would help me, i have looked around and asked (mainly my supplier) and everyone recommends something different, i hear IGF 1 come up alot but i dont know where to get a hold of that at the moment.


please help me out!:aargh:

 

[Chubbinmuffin]

Try some cissus.

 

[kadafee]

Try some cissus.

tried it for 2 months, plus i'm not a very big believer of it, dont think theres enough scientific evidence backing its claims.

 

[schwellington]

Human Growth Hormone helps repair tissues like this

 

[gotgame83]

Most times if there is a tear like that during the scope it will be smoothed out. Im not sure why any orthopod would say it will "heal on its own". You should ask for your pics taken during the scope and post them up. I have published papers on cartilage and fracture healing but that is much different than articular cartilage which is considered to be AVASCULAR. Any OTC supps or AAS wont do jack for this purpose so please dont waste your money. A longshot would be hGH or IGF.

 

[kadafee]

Most times if there is a tear like that during the scope it will be smoothed out. Im not sure why any orthopod would say it will "heal on its own". You should ask for your pics taken during the scope and post them up. I have published papers on cartilage and fracture healing but that is much different than articular cartilage which is considered to be AVASCULAR. Any OTC supps or AAS wont do jack for this purpose so please dont waste your money. A longshot would be hGH or IGF.

Really? I didn't really question the surgeon as i dont know anything about this kind of stuff, but he tells me its in a position where it can't be repaired and its as small as a millimeter, this really is frustrating, i dont know if the procedure was taped,photographed as it was done by national health care and not private, do you think i should get a second opinion before i start a hgh/igf cycle?

 

[jaydollars]

I am no surgeon, but I would get a second opinion from the most reputable orthopedic doc in your area, I had should issues a while back and was given BS for 2 years by one doctor, then I found the best guy in my area who happen to do Kurt Schilling's surgeries and I was be operated on a week later...get another opinion just to be sure, it's worth the peace of mind

 

[kadafee]

I am no surgeon, but I would get a second opinion from the most reputable orthopedic doc in your area, I had should issues a while back and was given BS for 2 years by one doctor, then I found the best guy in my area who happen to do Kurt Schilling's surgeries and I was be operated on a week later...get another opinion just to be sure, it's worth the peace of mind

how do i know that a doctor is good?

the surgeon who operated on me has been a surgeon since 1993, he gives lectures at universities and is a shoulder specialist.

the surgeon tried convincing me to not do the surgery for some reason so i didn't have full trust in him, the tear is apparently a grade 2 tear and he didn't even mention it until i asked bout it, when i went to see him at a follow up he told me he checked all major ligaments and tendons and no tears were found, when i told him that the doctor who read out my report (his assistant) told me i have a grade 2 tear he convinced me that it was too small to even matter.

so basically im screwed.

 

[gotgame83]

during every scope any pathology is photographed for your file, for billing and often times all normal structures are photographed as well. you are saying that it is not a slap tear but from what you are describing it sounds like just a chondral defect. Being perfectly honest, I dont know of any supplements, AAS or peptides that would help with this and any money you spend on the hope of it helping your current condition is likely to be wasted.

It is very difficult to know if the surgeon is good or not. Unless you have personally been in the OR with him/her you honestly wouldnt know. A lot of the big names in the field honestly dont do much during your actual procedure. They almost all work at major university settings and have their own fellows/residents who do most of the procedure. Even though they say, " oh I am doing the whole procedure, they will just be handing me things." With that being said, I am only familiar with shoulder guys in the NYC area. But outside of that area I would look at where they did their fellowship training.

 

[kadafee]

during every scope any pathology is photographed for your file, for billing and often times all normal structures are photographed as well. you are saying that it is not a slap tear but from what you are describing it sounds like just a chondral defect. Being perfectly honest, I dont know of any supplements, AAS or peptides that would help with this and any money you spend on the hope of it helping your current condition is likely to be wasted.

It is very difficult to know if the surgeon is good or not. Unless you have personally been in the OR with him/her you honestly wouldnt know. A lot of the big names in the field honestly dont do much during your actual procedure. They almost all work at major university settings and have their own fellows/residents who do most of the procedure. Even though they say, " oh I am doing the whole procedure, they will just be handing me things." With that being said, I am only familiar with shoulder guys in the NYC area. But outside of that area I would look at where they did their fellowship training.

problem is it was free man, im in the uk and we have national health care as you might have heard.

its definitely not a slap tear as i have been told my the surgeon and 2 different physical therapists, plus the slap tear would have shown up on the arthrogram.

i think i might send out emails to a few surgeons around my area and ask them how they would treat a chondral defect.

one another problem is that apparently the tear is on some kind of bony surface which is hard to reach or repair, or so the surgeon told me.:sigh1:

 

[gotgame83]

ahhh UK. I have a few friends who used to practice over there but came to the states. I cant speak of how they do things over there. And yes if it was a SLAP tear it would have likely shown on the MRI arthrogram and definitly would have been visualized on the scope. I am somewhat surprised that this is causing all of your pain... I really dont have any other suggestions given the fact that they scoped it and didnt see any pathology. Im sure they suggested NSAIDs and PT. Best of luck.

 

[kadafee]

ahhh UK. I have a few friends who used to practice over there but came to the states. I cant speak of how they do things over there. And yes if it was a SLAP tear it would have likely shown on the MRI arthrogram and definitly would have been visualized on the scope. I am somewhat surprised that this is causing all of your pain... I really dont have any other suggestions given the fact that they scoped it and didnt see any pathology. Im sure they suggested NSAIDs and PT. Best of luck.

Its not exactly pain really, its more of an irritation! very hard to explain, after i try to do something physical with that arm it irritates afterwards!

do you think i should give GH a shot? (no pun intended) i'm a desperate man right now!:aargh:

 

[gotgame83]

Well it seems like your labrum and rotator cuff are intact so if I were in that same situation I would rehab the heck out of it. Internal/external rotation in multiple planes. Capsule stretching. (yes i know you said you dont have a SLAP tear but it cant hurt your situation) Growth factors wont hurt but will take a bite out of ur wallet. I cant see them rebuilding your defect, but then again this is assuming this is what is causing your pain. If you have the means to do hGH then go for it. But rehab and stretch it a lot. Stabilizing your shoulder via tightening up your labrum via your subscap and other rotators can only improve your symptoms

 

[schwellington]

doesnt Nandrolone help repair tissue though it is an aas but often times it is used in clinical settings to help with joint and tissue repair

 

[kadafee]

Well it seems like your labrum and rotator cuff are intact so if I were in that same situation I would rehab the heck out of it. Internal/external rotation in multiple planes. Capsule stretching. (yes i know you said you dont have a SLAP tear but it cant hurt your situation) Growth factors wont hurt but will take a bite out of ur wallet. I cant see them rebuilding your defect, but then again this is assuming this is what is causing your pain. If you have the means to do hGH then go for it. But rehab and stretch it a lot. Stabilizing your shoulder via tightening up your labrum via your subscap and other rotators can only improve your symptoms

Yeah i just started rehab with a very good PT i just met, shoulder already feels alot more stable although irritations are still there.

what kind of GH dosage would i be taking if im using it just for rehab? (5'8, 145lb)

 

[jaydollars]

Did this doctor tell you what you need to do to heal? Just rest? Physical therapy? Or, did he just say there is nothing that can be done?

Schwell, I think in one of the recent MD issues there was some info about nandrolone in a medical study showing it does not help you heal

 

[gotgame83]

I have friends who say their joints feel better on a nandrolone based AAS and I remember seeing a few papers on these boards years ago saying that it may increase collagen synthesis. Remember cartilage is just one type of collagen, articular cartilage is avascular and doesnt proliferate. Nandrolone may have some anti inflam properties but i really dont know and I have never seen it used clinically outside of a few anti aging clinics or in the treatment of wasting conditions. As for the dose of GH... I have no clue. I do not know of any studies on this and any studies would all have its limits. Just as many PRP studies for RCTs. No one is going to have their shoulder rescoped if its feeling good just for a clinical study. If you do find a study on AAS or Growth factors and its affect on cartilage make sure its articular and not fracture callus. The later would absolutely be improved with GH

 

[omni]

Have you looked into aflutop?

 

[kadafee]

Did this doctor tell you what you need to do to heal? Just rest? Physical therapy? Or, did he just say there is nothing that can be done?

Schwell, I think in one of the recent MD issues there was some info about nandrolone in a medical study showing it does not help you heal

he said to try PT for a while

my pt is very optimistic and thinks all the inactivity is making it harder to recover he says my scapula is winging quiet a bit and i have general poor form from sitting on the computer long hours, i'm rehabbing like crazy right now but its been so long so im not sure how much it will help.

 

[kadafee]

Have you looked into aflutop?

i have briefly searched on it, its extremely hard to find in the uk where as GH i can easily obtin even though it is pricey.

 

[JudgementDay]

Thats to bad about your shoulder, I injured my shoulder and it took a year before it was good to go 100% again, also nothing showed on the mri, but the surgeon told me they gave me the wrong mri as well.

Only thing that helped me is doing therapy for 9 months I would use the bungie cord 2 times a day doing rotator cuff exercises, side raises, front raises and other angles. I would aim for 10 reps each exercise with no rest and repeat untill the shoulder would get a little pumped and do it again later in the day everyday. After a few months I started doing a full body weight routine but really light weight, started benching with the bar and would add 5 pounds every 3-4 days. I have gone up and felt like to much and has to go back down, it was a ****ty struggle to get rid of the shoulder pain.

Here are the supplements I was using that I found helped a bit.

HGH UP
P-slin( I really felt the extra push of nutrition going into the muscles helped)
Super Cissus
Glucosamine chondroitin sulfate, msm and hyaluronic acid
bcaa's type of amino drink like Xtend

I would give Joint Force a try as well, it seems to be a good anti-inflammatory, I wouldn't use it pre-workout tho.

 

[GLHF]

HGH 3-6ius/day 5on 2 off
ghrp6 200mcg 3x day to the shoulder 5on 2off

 

[AnabolicFrenz]

Try this out, its a good stretching routine for any shoulder problem.

http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=6997

 

[kadafee]

HGH 3-6ius/day 5on 2 off
ghrp6 200mcg 3x day to the shoulder 5on 2off

is this the dosage you recommend for rehabilitation? because i dont plan on working out!