p-plex/1-t cycle info and questions....

[SemiBulimic]

Started this just over 2 weeks ago, i won't be doing a log but might do updates and a final summary. possibly measurements and pics at end.
Running 1-t for 6 weeks@5pumps ED and p-plex 0/20/20/30/30 and possibly for a 5th week depending on gains and sides.
Have letro, nolva and torem on hand.
PCT will most likely be nolva and primordial's TRS.
Have all usual ancilliaries and support supps on hand also.
Main goal is strength, specifically to overcome my bench plateau which has done my head in for ages now.
Have upped cals by 1000 more a day. Protein is at least 400g a day.
So far 10 lbs increase in BW, with a bit of bloat but not too concerned yet.
Previously ran superdrol cycle 4 years ago but didn't really approach it as seriously as i should've.
Sides so far are slight increase in BP and back pumps kicked in for the first time when i was doing b/over rows today (have taurine and potassium for this), slight acne increase on face as well.

Sample training day's eating:-

(mealtimes vary)

-protein shake (w/water) on waking - 30gms protein
-breakfast - 12-14 eggs (5 whole eggs, remainder whites), ham, jalapenos and 2 slices wholemeal bread.
-1lb cottage cheese w/ handful almonds
-1.5 chicken breasts in a curry or other low carb sauce w/ greens, sweet potato.
-protein shake w/80gms oats pre workout
-post workout 50g protein shake w/5g creatine
-1 hour later fish or chicken based meal w/greens, no carbs
-before bed, 1lb cottage cheese w/ handful almonds

routine is based on westside, one variation of a lift for 3 weeks, going for 1, 3 or 5 rep max each week for the 3 weeks, then assistance exercises.
split looks like this:-

day 1 - bench and tris
day 2 - deadlift
day 3 - off
day 4 -tris and shoulders
day 5 - squat
day 6 - mid and upper back assistance w/ some biceps
day 7 - off
day 8 - shoulders and chest
day 9 - deadlift
day 10 -off
day 11 - bench and tris
day 12 - squat

and so on and so on.....

Few questions:-
-has anyone done this stack? how were the results?
-how long until the strength gains kick in on p-plex as so far, apart from a slight increase in intensity and recovery time between sets i haven't noticed much of a strength increase?
-how much will low carb intake or the use of letro on-cycle (if bloat becomes an issue) affect gains?

any input or questions you may have fire away.....

 

[SemiBulimic]

Reserved for updates/final results....

 

[colbran]

sounds like a good cycle . should feel good while on .

 

[stxnas]

Interesting cycle. I'll definitely check back for some updates.

 

[SemiBulimic]

On a side note has anyone using either of these compounds noticed a lot more toilet time? I mean I was regular before but this is ridiculous. It may just be the increased calories but i'll need a good soft cushion before this is done. And some ice.

 

[ryansm]

Never had that issue, love both compounds.

 

[SemiBulimic]

How was your strength on them?

 

[mw1]

I would recommend going to 30 mgs (or 40) if you have not bumped it up yet, as well as run it for 5 weeks not 4

 

[SolidusSnake]

Ya, pplex shines at 40mg... 20mg is too low..

 

[Rosie Chee]

There are no logs on this current stack that I can find (if anyone knows of one, then please post it here), so I shall follow along with interest.

~Rosie~

 

[SemiBulimic]

I would recommend going to 30 mgs (or 40) if you have not bumped it up yet, as well as run it for 5 weeks not 4

thanks for replying. I wanted to do 2 weeks before going to 40mg ed. just to see how i get on. 5 weeks is a possibility like I said, it just depends on sides and gains. Have u used these compounds before? Strength gains?

 

[SolidusSnake]

You wont get sides really with the phera compound. its poetic

 

[SemiBulimic]

Rosie I think trauma did one a while back and got good gains. I'm now on 30mg of p-plex ed. Will do that for a week and then go to 40 mg if everything goes fine.

 

[SemiBulimic]

Snake I have heard of people getting very stubborn gyno from p-plex, including doc d i think. Better to be cautious I suppose

 

[ryansm]

I used 1-test transdermal back in the days, PP's 1-T converts to this. It is an incredible compound, very lean and dry gains with exceptional strength increases as well, Phera I used the original several times ran it up to 60mgs, my favorite of any oral. It imparts tremendous mass gains if used at high enough mgs, and also good strength gains. The combo will be great. The only thing I would add is a test base to your cycle if it were me running this, since you are using legal available compounds Dermacrine would fit nicely.

 

[SemiBulimic]

60mg? That's a big hit to take. I have some of the real old dermacrine, might consider it if it's still good. This is what i consider my first proper ph cycle so I suppose i am starting off easy but will up the dosage if all goes well. Do u think some letro on cycle will help reduce a bit of the bloat I'm experiencing without affecting gains too much? Maybe even 0.25mg every few days? I did a 3 month cut in the run up to this and lost 25lbs and although I accept i'm going to put on a bit of fat and water I want it to be as clean as possible, as is reflected by my food intake.

 

[ryansm]

I ran it at 60, I don't recommend others to do so, lol. 30 should be good. As far as an AI, I only use them if I absolutely must, some bloat isn't a going to kill you. Keep your diet, training, and sleep in check, and you will have a great cycle.

 

[SolidusSnake]

Phera ia progestin like compound which is why alot get gyno. Use p5p and ldopa and you be fine.

 

[mw1]

thanks for replying. I wanted to do 2 weeks before going to 40mg ed. just to see how i get on. 5 weeks is a possibility like I said, it just depends on sides and gains. Have u used these compounds before? Strength gains?

I've used P-plex but not PP's 1-T, though I've always heard good things about it. I used Pplex at 2-3 caps (the 19.2 mgs caps). Strength and agression were extremely good on PP.

 

[SemiBulimic]

Ryansm what is your reasoning behind using dermacrine in addition to this stack? dermacrine contains dhea and pregnenolone, which 1-t also contains?

Just interested to hear why you think it would help, if it does by all means i'll throw it in as i have some on hand.

 

[SemiBulimic]

Just a quick update.

Think the strength is finally starting to kick in.
Deads last night and hit a 3 rep PR. Considering it took me 6 months to get over a back injury this is a real achievement for me. Only downside is that i had to take a few breaks while going balls-to-the-wall last night as i felt my bp going through the roof. Will have to keep an eye on it. Have been taking hawthorn and CoQ10 for that though.
Traps are growing like weeds too and the pump i get after training is great. I sometimes go to my local supermarket after training and from how i'm walking i'm sure i look like i'm wearing squat briefs and carrying 2 tvs under my arms to other folk.
Going onto 40mg tomorrow and adding in grapefruit juice to my arsenal. I know the jury's still out on whether it increases potency but only one way to find out.
Today's a rest day and just finished two bowls of white fish and pierogi. Have a tonne of jumbo prawns with my name on them waiting for me in the kitchen so looks like the evening has taken care of itself

 

[ryansm]

Ryansm what is your reasoning behind using dermacrine in addition to this stack? dermacrine contains dhea and pregnenolone, which 1-t also contains?

Just interested to hear why you think it would help, if it does by all means i'll throw it in as i have some on hand.

Sorry bud I forgot the PP 1-T had the same ingredients.

 

[SemiBulimic]

Started 40mg p-plex today. Also used 1-t 1 hour before training in the evening.

My belief that strength gains have started to kick in was reinforced this evening. Went for a 3 rm 5kg short of my old 1rm on strict standing OHP's and got 5 reps. Had more in the tank but shoulder and upper right pec felt strained. This is a woeful lift for me (thanks to my ape arms) and if I can get a good strict rep or two at 100kg by the end of this cycle then I will be thrilled.

My general strength goals for this cycle are:- (all lifts are unequipped)

squat +20kg
Deadlift + 30kg
Bench +15kg
OHP +15kg
Weighted dips +15kg
Incline bench +20kg

If i can get 4 or 5 of these i will be happy but i am going all out to get them all. I don't think i'm being unrealistic and fully expect to exceed a few of these.

Things I've noticed in the past few days:-

The bloat seems to have settled a bit.
The boys have maybe atrophied by 10%
Initial weight gain has slowed.
BP seems to have steadied - have a sphygmomanometer on the way.
My bench is still sh1te!
Other than that i feel good

 

[SemiBulimic]

Squats tomorrow - going to throw on the wraps for the first time in a few years and go for a 3rm as the knees are feeling a bit battered as of late. Can't wait

 

[SemiBulimic]

More minor updates:-

-Was thinking today how i have very little DOMS whatsoever recently.
-My general recovery between sets is so fast now with very little drop off in strength.
-Getting major hot flushes since i started 40mg a day. Not unbearable but just noticeable.
-I'm really going to have to push it harder now to achieve my goals. Squats didn't go too well this evening - was very pushed for time and ended up 10 kg below what i wanted. I only seem to get in 50 mins per workout now and it just isn't enough.
-Eating is going ok; 50gms protein every 2/3 hours consistently now.

For anyone who has used these compounds, how did you vary - if at all - your training when 'on' diiferently from being 'off? At the moment i'm just going picking a rep range
(1-5) and going for a pr every workout for the major lift that day. Then just doing the usual assistance lifts after that. So far i'm hitting them all. I don't see the point in being conservative using this stuff.

 

[SemiBulimic]

On a side note backpumps were off the scale after squats - could barely walk out of the gym. I've had problems in the past with pains in the rear of my hips just above the glutes and they returned along with the pumps - the pain was something else. Am taking taurine and potassium and until today i'd had very little problems with them. Any suggestions for increasing mobility in the rear hips and reducing this pain?

 

[suresha]

sub'd. did a sd/1-t last year and this past october did a 4 week phera w/2 week 1-t stack loved the alpha male euphoria. strength increase was crazy. but the best was the sd/1-t. i feel as pp's 1-t is one of the most slept on products.

give it hell mang!!!!!!!!!

 

[SemiBulimic]

Good to have you on board my friend. What kind of strength gains did you get on these 2 stacks?

 

[SemiBulimic]

Another quick update for anyone still interested.
*weight is up about 15lbs from start. Quite a lot of bloat though and some bf but shoulders, traps and upper chest as well as upper thighs are definitely more muscular.
*strength is up on everything but not by much more than it would be anyway at this weight.
*blood pressure is under control. Really recommend coq10 and extra hawthorn.
*hardest thing is keeping the calories up. I'm very carb-sensitive and going over 200 gms ed is killing me.
*bowel movements have eased. It was horrendous in the first 2 weeks.
*taurine is a life saver at controlling back pumps
*starting to look like I'm 'on' and that's a good and bad thing
*my bench is still sh1t and it's starting to really frustrate me. I mean it's maybe increased 10kg in 4 years. I look like I can bench a hell of a lot more. Anyone here who's benching around 400lbs and has a bit of time on their hands drop me a line and I will go into it more if you are willing to help. It really is my Achilles heel and it has to improve as I don't believe for one second I have reached my lifetime max as it is so ridiculously low for my size training experience.
*very little testicular atrophy - don't 'feel' shut down.
*training aggression and intensity is up. Aggression out of the gym is still the same; I'm a very passive person and that hasn't changed.
*I haven't been sleeping well. Not getting asleep until at least 3 most nights and i'm waling up with aeful pains in the back of my lower ribs. Not sure if it's anything to do with the cycle, Most likely my body adapting to the heavier poundage and increased intensity of training.
*I'm getting a lot of freaky hairs on my shoulders where I'm applying the 1-t. Looking more like a mountain gorilla everyday now!
So 16 days to go until pct, which i'm looking forward to. I have every session planned out between now and then and I plan on bending more of the sh1tty bars my sh1tty gym has.

 

[SemiBulimic]

SO no big benchers want to comment?

 

[SemiBulimic]

Deadlift pr tonight. Love it.
Have decided I'm going all out for last ten days; on sunday I'm bumping it up to 50mg for an a full on go at these goals i have set. I feel good and will continue to adjust things as I see fit. My only concern at the moment is my lack of sleep and not getting into the gym for as long as i would like some days. I have continued to bump up the Carbs and plan on getting a few protein pancakes before bed tonight.

 

[SemiBulimic]

Quick update for anyone still following even though i'm getting zero feedback on this.

-Decided to bump P-Plex to 50mg ED 3 days early. 13 days at this and there can't be any excuses at the end of it all.
-Hit a wall tonight; tried to do a heavy workout for 4th day in a row and in hindsight not a good idea. Strength there but just felt drained. Taking tomorrow off then going for a PR for squats on saturday if i can. Going to eat like a machine tomorrow.
-Bumped up carbs again. I've gone from eating maybe 80gms a day on training days before this cycle to now eating between 300 to 400gms a day. My body definitely isn't used to it.
-Joints are taking a battering. I have a condition in my shoulders that doesn't really let me hit many upper body movements for reps so i have to be smart in training it; this has flared up slightly during workouts. I have cissus 50% on the way as it has worked for me before.
-Am approx 20lbs up from start weight and am wondering now how best to go about cutting some of the fat i've put on without losing too much muscle once this cycle ends. I put fat on my lower chest very easily and it's become more prominent during this cycle. Any ideas? Taper the carbs slowly? increase cardio? Use an AI? ECA (which i was using before this run). All suggestions welcome. If I can keep 10lbs lean mass i will be a happy bunny.
-Trying to figure out how i can possibly get more calories in each day. Here is what i've eaten today:-

upon waking - 30gm protein + 5g taurine shake
45 mins later - breakfast shake (this is handy for taking to work as i can't get down solids too easily early in the morning) - 50gms protein, 50gms coconut oil, 100gms oats, frozen fruit, banana, 500ml milk.
1.5 hours later - chicken breast, 80gms mixed nuts
1.5 hrs later - 1.5 chicken breasts, 2 sweet potatoes (roasted with herbs and spices), 20 ml EVO oil
3 hours later - 50gm protein from protein bar, 100gms mixed nuts
3 hours later - chicken breast, pierogi, peanut butter and jelly on toast, 600 ml milk
2.5hrs later - post workout shake - 60gms protein, 30gms nesquick, 5gms creatine, 5 gms taurine
1 hour later - sweet potato, veg and chicken roast w/ 20 ml EVO oil
2 hours later - 600gms cottage cheese, 60gms oats, 60gms walnuts.

This isn't what i eat everyday. I mix up the animal proteins, it is just a typical workday. How the hell can i get more calories here without resorting to eating cr4p (that's reserved for sunday.....)

 

[ryansm]

Wow 20 pounds, very impressive. What is your total daily caloric intake at now? As far as dieting during PCT, I personally think it's a bad idea. If anything you can taper the carbs very slowly, but you certainly want to keep your cals up.

 

[SemiBulimic]

Thanks for being one of the few showing an interest. I would say at this point 25 - 28 lbs is realistic, especially on 50mg. I am getting about 5000kcals a day, 6000 on a very good day. 95% clean calories. I know a cut during pct is a no-no, I'm just looking long term into leaning out a bit. I am thinking cutting down the Carbs is the way forward but i will keep up the fats and proteins at about the same level. Will bump up the cardio slightly as well. Have a few goodies for pct so am hoping i will keep that 10lbs lbm

 

[ryansm]

Sure you will. I know it seems sometimes like you are talking to yourself, but someone is getting help from you posting your experience about your cycle.

 

[detroitdiesel]

Definitely helpful, new here and soaking up information.

 

[ryansm]

^^^See

 

[ryansm]

Definitely helpful, new here and soaking up information.

Welcome to AM

 

[Destructi0n]

in for results

 

[SemiBulimic]

Ok. Attitude readjusted, more updates;
Up 22 lbs.
Calories still high.
The boys haven't atrophied anymore than last week.
Stil feel ok.
Sex drive reduced noticably now.
Strength still increasing; Hit 3 rep PR squatting tonight; had more in the tank as well but no spotters so didn't risk it.
My face looked swollen this morning for some reason. Didn't do anything differently yesterday so will monitor this.
Took 2 days off from training this week as I just felt battered and worn. It did me the world of good and now I'm looking forward to the home straight of this cycle.
My hips have given me bother the past wekk, since I squatted last week. Lots of stretching and foam rolling seems to have helped. Considering buying a pair of loose squat briefs just for a bit of support for squats.
Seeing as some people may be willing to learn from my experience I thought I'd list the support supps I'm running with this:-

CEL cycle support
Fish oil (10gms ED)
Hawthorn
CoQ10
Chelated potassium
Taurine(10gms ED)
Vit D3
Multi Vit
Creapure
Saw Palmetto
Melatonin
Valerian root.

For PCT - as detailed previously -I have the following options:-

SERMS - Torem and nolva
AI - Letro ( i know this can't be run with nolva)
PP's TRS
Test boosters etc. - Diesel test pro-cycle, pink magic x 2, prime, Divanex
Others - HGHup, P-Slin, Cissus.

I have enough here to do the job and I hope this will help me keep my target of 10lbs after the cycle.

Tomorrow is OHP day and going for 3 rep PR, on course for 100kg strict press.

 

[SemiBulimic]

Thought I'd post what i ate today:-

breakfast 8am - 50gm protein shake, 2 slices toast w/ natty peanut butter and jelly
10am - bulking shake (recipe is in this log somewhere)+5g taurine
sleep from 11.30 until 2.30 (worked nights last night)
25g protein shake on waking
1 hour later -14 eggs (8 whole, 6 whites) and 2 slices toast, glass of grapefruit juice, glass of OJ)
2 hours later - shake w/ 50gms protein and 80gms oats + 5g taurine
gym
PWS - 50g protein shake + 30g fast carbs +5g protein
1 hour later - meatloaf and 100g wholemeal pasta + 600ml milk
2 hours later - 1 whole pizza
2 hours later - 600gms cottage cheese and 60 gms walnuts

approx 450gms protein. Calories is anyone's guess - my main aim is getting approx 50g protein from each meal and carbs as I see fit. The pizza was my cheat for the weekend.

I relied a lot on shakes today a lot more than usual but money is tight until payday so I used what I have and I will be getting more protein from whole foods in a few days time.

 

[SemiBulimic]

2 Rep PR on strict OHP tonight. Was harder than i'd hoped but i got it just. Hurt my right shoulder bringing it down after the 2nd rep though. Feels like a strained RC. I pushed through the rest of the workout but i was in agony when i got home. Ice and massage has made it bearable. My shoulders have given me problems for 10 years now and i was due to get an operation on my right one 7 years ago but had to forgo it in order to get into my current job. I have perhaps been more lax about mobility drills and prehab for them than i should've been but now i realise that if i want to prolong my lifting life then i will have to make these things a full-time regime. The same goes for my hips- i sound like an old man here for flip sake!!!

I am starting to feel shut down. I just feel generally lethargic and 'cloudy'. I love the feeling i get when i'm training, the pump is unreal, but i am looking forward to pct, especialy using hgh up as my sleep has suffered in recent weeks due to hot flushes and general mental restlessness.

I have been thinking of how to approach my training post-cycle and i know i have to keep the intensity and poundages as high as possible, but i was wondering when i could do a deload week as i really need one but don't want it to negatively impact my goal of keeping 10lbs lbm.
Any suggestions?

 

[SemiBulimic]

Again no feedback on the questions i ask (hence the name of the thread......). Quite frustrating to say the least.

Anyway, i had heard that in the 5th week of 1-t people are putting on upto 2lbs a day and now i can see it actually happening to me. I am up 26 lbs as of today. I have a hell of a bloat in my gut and have put a bit of fat on my lower chest but my shoulders, arms, traps and back have all grown noticably. Again, my main goal was strength gains on the big 3 lifts and i have achieved that. Any aesthetic improvements are obviously a bonus but i am not concerned too much by the increase in body fat. I am not looking for a ripped physique and have had a powerlifting type build for quite a while and this cycle has just reinforced that look i think. This is why i am hesitant to put any photos up as i have more important things to worry about than listen to the opinions of those who think anything above 10% BF is fat and are just worried about being 'shredded'.

Prior to this cycle i had a full medical in work and passed with flying colours so it's not like i'm some out of shape fat-ass who has done an ill-advised PH run.

Ok i went off on one there but you get my point. Rest day tomorrow, then thurs going to test my bench max and then friday doing the same for deads. will test squat and OHP 1rm's next week as well. All or nothing from here on in.

 

[SemiBulimic]

Short update.

Still hovering at about +26lbs, still bloated though.

1 rep PR on bench on thursday BUT did it with strained pec and felt frustrated as i know i had another 20lb or so in me but didn't want to strain it further.

Deadlifted on friday and again hit a 1 rep pr.

Took the weekend off from lifting as i felt a bit burned out and my joints were hurting.

Did CG bench today and again hit a PR for 220lb for reps and then another PR for 264lbs for reps. Went light today as pec is still tender - i'm worried it's a very partial tear as i have never had this kind of sensation in it before.

Squats tomorrow. Going to wrap the knees and go for a big 1rm.

As far as the cycle goes i am finishing it on tues and going into pct on wed. Still not sure whether i'm going for the nolva or the torem for it as i have heard good things about torem and would like to try it. I have both. Anybody have input on this? I won't hold my breath as with the exception of ryansm i have had no answers to questions i've asked in this log.

I feel very shut down now. Sex drive is nearly nil. Boys have atrophied about 15%. Joints are hurting and i feel like i need a deload week. I did ask a few days ago if anyone thought this was a good idea during pct but i got fed up waiting for an answer.

 

[colbran]

been following along , like your updates, sorry no answers for you . im still learning

 

[colbran]

i know if i overdo a bench or a squat and have tender muscle or joint i will lower weight but do more reps to keep muscles active but let them repair same for joints. it works for me . you will feel better once you start pct and lethargy is gone in a few days you will be back wanting to lift heavy again. its the lethargy talking right now

 

[ryansm]

Hit the Torem bud, by far the best SERM I have used, and much better for you.

 

[SemiBulimic]

Colbran - thank you for following and showing an interest. I am learning as i go and that is why i get annoyed about so little feedback. In terms of what you stated about going easy when worn out i would normally do that but i wanted to know from those with more experience than myself whether a deload week in PCT would negatively affect my gains. I know i will lose a lot of the weight in PCT but i will fight tooth and nail to keep as much strength as i can.

Ryansm - thank you again for your input. Did you use research grade torem? if so what were your doses and how did you find it in comparison to nolva? I have research nolva and torem. Also, i read you were a huge squatter. Equipped i guess? Would you recommend a pair of loose fitting briefs for a raw lifter like myself who despite their best efforts - plyo's, foam rolling, stretching etc. - gets pains in their hips when squatting? I though they would maybe help in supporting my hips and even helping overload the cns due to being able to lift a little bit more in them? would appreciate your opinion on this......

 

[SemiBulimic]

Ok so cycle over, PCT starts tomorrow. Will post an update tomorrow about my results and general learning points and observations from this experience. Looking forward to PCT now dammit......

 

[ryansm]

Ryansm - thank you again for your input. Did you use research grade torem? if so what were your doses and how did you find it in comparison to nolva? I have research nolva and torem. Also, i read you were a huge squatter. Equipped i guess? Would you recommend a pair of loose fitting briefs for a raw lifter like myself who despite their best efforts - plyo's, foam rolling, stretching etc. - gets pains in their hips when squatting? I though they would maybe help in supporting my hips and even helping overload the cns due to being able to lift a little bit more in them? would appreciate your opinion on this......

I have used research grade, for your cycle 90/90/60/60 or 90/60/60/30 should be fine. Some front load it as well actually if you read this thread over at PP Toremifene it should help answer a lot of your questions. As far as efficacy I find it far superior.

I lifted raw always when pl'ing, and of course oly. As far as your question I'm not sure what you mean? I am not a fan of any assisted gear, and am not versed in their use either. As far as your hip pain, that can be a number of things, and I would first assume it is due to your technique in the lift. Maybe post a video of you squatting?