started a Havoc pulse...

[gymrat827]

Got a couple bottles, decided to pop a few pre WO last friday and again today. I also have a decent stash of other stuff (tren, SD, Pplex) but i am going to leave those in the freezer in the black bag for a while.

Heres how things look.

MWF (so far, think I am goin to mess with the days)
30/30/30 All pre WO, 20 1.5hr pre, 10 15min pre
30/40/40 30 pre WO, 1 post WO
40/40/40 "" ""
40/40/50 30 pre 1.5 hr, 10 pre 5min, 10 post on the 50mg day
On days support
Supress C, Vit C, Cissus, Titanium(1cap), 6000 IU Vit D, 7g fish oil, 4g CLA, Toco 8, Liv.52.

Off days, ALL above,Milk thistle, + 9G CEE/Creatine diMalate mix, 1 cap ERASE, 2 cap redefine nutrition PCT (its like cycle assit and AI/T booster good stuff)

Other supps: Bev Intl Lean out, Caffine, Carnitine, Fruit/veg based multi vit.

Going to play around with the days of the wk. Cycle will only last 6-7wks and will most likely touch 50mg but we will see. Ive ran quite a bit of stuff in the past and need a decent dose. about 191lb now. Ive read pretty much the entire Dr D thread.

One reason why im dosing so much pre WO is because I cant sleep for sh!t. Next, I get such a good pump taking any supp/PH/etc pre WO. Idk why, but my body seems to react well so thats what i am going to stick with.
DHEA will be soon in there along with tribulus, ZMA. PCT will prolly be OTC stuff, dont think il need SERM but i do have clomid so im safe if problems arise.

 

[Dr.Lang]

I have an old bottle of havoc in my cabinet. I may have to break it out.

 

[jaydollars]

I pulsed epi as well, I would get up to 50-60mg as quick as possible, I saw no gains till 50mg

 

[gymrat827]

Really? Well maybe I'll go to 40 this wk and 50 the next.

I run h drol @125 mg and sd @ 20 etc. So maybe I have a decent tolerance

Also the fish oil is more like 8gs a day and 5gs CLA

 

[jaydollars]

I guess just depends on how you feel, but since your pulsing don't be afraid to take that dose up, if I pulse again I would go as high as I could, only side I had was slight headaches around dosing from the blood presure, bloodwork came back good too

 

[JudoJosh]

Dr. D had advised against milk thistle for ON days with a pulse. I am doing a havoc pulse now too. I agree 50 is where it is at!

 

[maddbomber]

i thought the purpose (one of them anyways) of a pulse cycle was light pct if any and light support supps....i also read somewhere that the support supps should be taken on "off" days....no link though, and im sure someone will be by to clear this up..

i pulsed one bottle of epi and never went over 40mg three days a week and saw wonderful gains in strength...so i would just follow your dosing regimen that you have outlined until you find what your body needs....

 

[jaydollars]

i thought the purpose (one of them anyways) of a pulse cycle was light pct if any and light support supps....i also read somewhere that the support supps should be taken on "off" days....no link though, and im sure someone will be by to clear this up..

i pulsed one bottle of epi and never went over 40mg three days a week and saw wonderful gains in strength...so i would just follow your dosing regimen that you have outlined until you find what your body needs....

On the "how to pulse orals" thread dr d does say liver support supps on off days because they can interfere with the absorption of the compound....madbomber has a point, go to the does that you feel is working for you, if you respond awesome at 20-30mg/day no reason to go higher

 

[ironman2388]

Pulsing is a terrible idea. A roller coaster ride for your endocrine system. Run it properly.

 

[jaydollars]

Pulsing is a terrible idea. A roller coaster ride for your endocrine system. Run it properly.

You are entitled to your opinion, but there are reasons to running a pulse

Me personally, my bloodwork came back after my 6 week pulse with NO negative changes in liver and lipids...how many people can running a methyl and not have those 2 change. Gained about 6-7 pounds too and kept it. I did not care about the fluctuating hormones.

If most people, not all, had bloods done after a 4-6 week methyl cycle these values could be crushed. I'm an advocate of heart health above anything else, and that includes shutdown or liver stress. I rather have liver enzymes tripled rather than HDL in single digits for possibly months.

I pulsed to limit sides, and I will do it again. Probably sdrol, dbol, and maybe even boladrol since that MAY have a short half life as well.

 

[ironman2388]

Why not just use test? Or at least have a test base with every cycle.

 

[Pipes]

are we talking about rpn havoc? im about to order some.

 

[GQNemesis]

Gymrat .. Gluck .. I'm in for results

Epi/havoc is a great compound to pulse

 

[maddbomber]

Pulsing is a terrible idea. A roller coaster ride for your endocrine system. Run it properly.

to each his own...worked for me

 

[gymrat827]

Gymrat .. Gluck .. I'm in for results

Epi/havoc is a great compound to pulse

Thanx,




As for the Milk thistle, I only take about 90mg of milk thistle on ON days. Its in the redefine PCT product (only take 1 cap on ON days) . I take the Liver52 on ON days, no milk thistle in it.

 

[PumpDogg]

Pulsing works!!! Im an old school juicer. Been on and off gear for 15+ yrs now. Mostly injectables with an oral. After reading Dr. D's thread I decided to give it a try alongside my test e.. I was

 

[PumpDogg]

amazed at how well it worked and how much better I felt. Less back pumps, less lethargy, less negative things all together, plus I ran it longer without worry of hurting my liver. I had blood wrk 6

 

[PumpDogg]

wks after my cycle ended and my liver and good cholesterol levels were fine. That along with killer gains was proof enough for me. While I dont pulse to minimize shut down, I will continue to pulse

 

[PumpDogg]

based off the great results I had with it. BTW I pulsed RPN HAVOC and CEL MDROL.. Happy pulsing brothers!!! It works plain and simple

 

[gymrat827]

Took 20g Hydrowhey pro, 100mg caffine, 30mg havoc, 3g fish oil, pre WO....Great f-ing pumps. Love this stuff.


Prolly my favorite PH/AAS ive tried(been threw a lot too). :sgrin:

 

[imjuschillin]

Very interesting thread. May replace my prev winter cycle idea...

I dont know there's any supplementation topic more debated than the legitimicy and effectiveness of pulsing. Wow. Some peeps say its their fav, all they'll do, others say it is a horrible idea, no 2 ways about it. Wow!

So, if one were to do this, say a 6-8 wk pulse, M, W, F of Havoc. 30-40 mg's a day, what would be best taken on the 'on' days?

I assume multi vit, fish oil, joint supp, taurine (if needed), vit C, Liv 52, are all fine to take on 'on' days, as well as off? What are peeps thoughts on taking creatine during this? Would it be best on and off days or just one or the other? What about a natty test booster?

 

[GQNemesis]

Nice keep it up bro .. Also u using prima or rpn ?

My bad if the answer have been posted

 

[gymrat827]

On the "on" days I only take erase for T and cort control. Off days I take titanium and redefine PCT so it keeps you balanced on the off days and creatine

 

[imjuschillin]

On the "on" days I only take erase for T and cort control. Off days I take titanium and redefine PCT so it keeps you balanced on the off days and creatine

Creatine through a whole pulse cycle? Or just off days (Im assuming whole since it should be loaded or at a minimum steady.)

So weird, I can remember peeps saying not long ago, save creatine for PCT, plus it would contribute to pumps too much. Now (not just you gymrat...) peeps are saying take it during cycle to get as much fromt he cycle as possible.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Pulsing is a terrible idea. A roller coaster ride for your endocrine system. Run it properly.

spoken like someone who has never tried it

Dr. D had advised against milk thistle for ON days with a pulse. I am doing a havoc pulse now too. I agree 50 is where it is at!

I agree with 50 being a decent dose for a havoc pulse

when i pulsed epi back in the day I only did 40-50mg, now my response to epi is kinda ****ed up but i was definitely noticing hardness, pumps and vascularity everyday just from 40-50mg 3x a week. I ran it for 8 weeks, used no supports, used nothing on off days.
Those things never hurt but pulsing is a concept that works all by itself. I have run a lot of cycles and based on my experience judging shutdown, I really think that my shutdown was super minimal from that cycle. Even at 8 weeks I felt I could have used a weak OTC pct no problem.

 

[maddbomber]

spoken like someone who has never tried it



I agree with 50 being a decent dose for a havoc pulse

when i pulsed epi back in the day I only did 40-50mg, now my response to epi is kinda ****ed up but i was definitely noticing hardness, pumps and vascularity everyday just from 40-50mg 3x a week. I ran it for 8 weeks, used no supports, used nothing on off days.
Those things never hurt but pulsing is a concept that works all by itself. I have run a lot of cycles and based on my experience judging shutdown, I really think that my shutdown was super minimal from that cycle. Even at 8 weeks I felt I could have used a weak OTC pct no problem.

i only used an OTC cycle support throughout the pulse cycle and for two weeks afterwords...no issue

 

[ironman2388]

spoken like someone who has never tried it

No kidding I haven't tried it. I'm not retarded. I don't run testless androgen cycles. Pulsing goes against anything any real juicer will tell you. I suspect your epi is seriously underdosed if you're recommending 50mg "pulses". 50mg of havoc could send you into hypertensive crisis.

 

[Pipes]

hrm, ive heard alot of people stating they did epi at 60mg, some even higher than that.

 

[UnrealMachine]

No kidding I haven't tried it. I'm not retarded. I don't run testless androgen cycles. Pulsing goes against anything any real juicer will tell you. I suspect your epi is seriously underdosed if you're recommending 50mg "pulses". 50mg of havoc could send you into hypertensive crisis.

Ok i see how your understanding of pulsing is painfully impaired so I will attempt to address your misconceptions

1) pulsing works, ask anyone who's tried it. Or maybe just try reading this thread and you'll see the results. Search up some pulsing threads here on AM. Try educating yourself about it a little bit.
The notion that pulsing causes more side effects is erroneous. The bottom line is that less mg of steroids are being taken over any comparable timeframe in a pulse cycle, so less shutdown and side effects are experienced.
Furthermore, the off days allow for minor rebounds in natural testosterone production which further minimizes shutdown.

Dr. D has a pulsing thread here. If you want to argue against pulsing, you might want to get at least a basic understanding of it first:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/62121-how-pulse-orals.html

2) cycling without test is fine. Test is good, there's nothing wrong with it, it's a solid base, provides gains and a libido boost throughout the cycle... but it's not necessary. The notion that test should be the basis of every cycle is more of a safety recommendation to people who don't know what they are doing to ensure that whatever random steroids someone throws into their cycle, at least they will have the test there to maintain libido and make some gains.
But it's not necessary. Never has been, never will be. That idea is just parroted on a bunch of AAS boards. I am pretty sure the vets got tired of seeing guys running cycles like "tren + masteron" and complaining when they couldn't get it up, and so started recommending test with every cycle.

In my 8 weeks of pulsing epi, my libido was perfectly fine (probably because i never got very shutdown) and testosterone was not necessary

3) What's your definition of a "real juicer?" As far as I am concerned we are all just steroid users. On this forum there's mostly oral steroids. I have been incorporating a lot more injectable steroids into my latest cycles. But the type of steroid you choose to use doesn't determine whether you're a REAL juicer or not. That's laughable.
And in case you didn't read this thread, a "real juicer" by what i assume your standards must be (PumpDogg) replied with his very positive results from pulsing. But I'm sure you've been purposely overlooking any post that might contradict your fragile view on how steroids function.

4) My epi was brand name IBE Epistane, probably not underdosed, and 50mg is right for a pulse. it astonishes me that you don't realize that when you pulse a steroid, you take it less often, and thus you need a slightly bigger dose than normal.
Epi is typically run in the 30-60mg ed range. Usually about 40mg though. Hence when you are pulsing you want a slightly higher dose like 50. Even 60 would be acceptable for the majority of users

5) A hypertensive crisis from 50mg of havoc? Do you know anything about havoc? It is commonly run at 50mg ed for weeks. Some people have run 60, even 70mg for weeks. The highest I have seen is 90mg a day. I am not recommending any of these doses... but PULSING 50mg 3x a week means you're only taking 15 capsules a week. Which is about as many mg of Havoc a week as running 20mg ed. Do you see why this won't cause hypertension?
I hope so.


You should start by reading Dr. D's thread on pulsing orals. You have a lot of reading to do if you want to try to argue about this stuff.

 

[chocolatemilk]

No kidding I haven't tried it. I'm not retarded. I don't run testless androgen cycles. Pulsing goes against anything any real juicer will tell you. I suspect your epi is seriously underdosed if you're recommending 50mg "pulses". 50mg of havoc could send you into hypertensive crisis.

You must be a real juicer. Can we see pictures of what a real juicer looks like?

Nothing left for me to say, Unreal cleared it up nicely. Pulsing works. Countless people have tried it and loved it.

 

[maddbomber]

great post unreal...repped

 

[mark118]

Pulsing is a terrible idea. A roller coaster ride for your endocrine system. Run it properly.

Why not just use test? Or at least have a test base with every cycle.

this isnt helpful to the OP.

many love pulsing, and many think its worthless, so your 1st comment isnt helpful.

and to 'just use test' again isnt helpful to the OP. many would rather run orals for their ease of administration, legalities, reliable product etc...

 

[imjuschillin]

OK, maybe I can ask here, as it's directly related.

First, what the nutrient partitioning effects of Havoc like? The ability for it to aid you in using proteins, fats, and carbs more efficiently? And would it still be of benefit on a pulse?

Also, if one were to do a Havoc pulse, would Dermacrine as a 'base' be of benefit, or detrimental, giving the idea of pulsing. I mean, would pulsing Dermacrine be of any use? On days or off days? And if onbe took it contin uously, would it defeat the purpose of pulsing the Havoc for less sides and shut down?

Thanks guys!

 

[GQNemesis]

Also, if one were to do a Havoc pulse, would Dermacrine as a 'base' be of benefit, or detrimental, giving the idea of pulsing. I mean, would pulsing Dermacrine be of any use? On days or off days? And if onbe took it contin uously, would it defeat the purpose of pulsing the Havoc for less sides and shut down?

Thanks guys!

Are u familiar with dhea ? Search that before you decide to run dermacrine


And I just wanto say this .. Not directed towards u or any1 but this banner of dermacrine gets to me .. So I'ma say it ..

"it is not the closest thing to legal injectibles(if such thing does exists)"

 

[gymrat827]

up to 50mgs mon, tue, thur, fri. Im playing around with this pulse i know you guys are goin to jump on me saying i should run it stright up), its my first one and am trying to figure out my body and its response.

Ive prolly done about 8-9 stright cycles and am really liking pulsing orals. I have no sides so far, feel great, and seeing visual gains in the mirror. I dont quite feel like i am "on cycle" tho, no alpha male feeling and aggression. Lidido is as normal of slightly better.


I know everyone is not a fan of this method but I think the skeptics should give it a shot. It is worth that no question. :scool:

 

[Dumbellz]

based off the great results I had with it. BTW I pulsed RPN HAVOC and CEL MDROL.. Happy pulsing brothers!!! It works plain and simple

Did you pulse them together?

 

[Dumbellz]

hrm, ive heard alot of people stating they did epi at 60mg, some even higher than that.

I've seen it dosed at 80mg

 

[ktatro1]

At the end of my epi cycle I dosed 60mg ED with no effect on BP.

 

[GQNemesis]

I've seen it dosed at 80mg

Dang .. Pulsed or str8 ?

 

[UnrealMachine]

ya well i've seen it dosed at 90mg, only for the last little bit of a cycle. I think crazyfool did that. he fell in love with high dosed epi, lol.

 

[gymrat827]

I'll prolly go up to 70 mg on my pulse

Going to dose 60 today. Been at50 for a wk. Time to mo e up

 

[gymrat827]

This is an "ON" day for me now.

waking up:
1 cap ERASE
3000 IU Vit D
Multi mineral sup & Multi fruit veg sup
NOW Joint support
20G dextrose/15G BCAA/10G Glutamine

2hr 20min pre WO
20mg Havoc
4g Fish oil
2G CLA
30G Whey iso shake w/10oz skim milk
20g oatmeal

30min pre WO
20mg Havoc
1g Fishoil, 1g CLA
10g BCAA/5G Glutamine
Supress C

Post WO
20G BCAA/10G Glutamine
30G Dextrose
3G CEE

30min post
35G whey iso w/skim milk
20mg Havoc
2g fish oil,2gCLA

60min Post meal

Night:
2000IU Vit D
Liver52 1 cap (no milk thistle)
Multi mineral/fruit-veg multi

Loving it, again mirror showing more effects than the scale.

 

[mark118]

i'd drop the 3g of cee - well established and legit research has shown it doesnt work

http://www.ergo-log.com/cee2.html

go with monohydrate or something fancy like Green Mag

 

[GQNemesis]

This is an "ON" day for me now.

waking up:
1 cap ERASE
3000 IU Vit D
Multi mineral sup & Multi fruit veg sup
NOW Joint support
20G dextrose/15G BCAA/10G Glutamine

2hr 20min pre WO
20mg Havoc
4g Fish oil
2G CLA
30G Whey iso shake w/10oz skim milk
20g oatmeal

30min pre WO
20mg Havoc
1g Fishoil, 1g CLA
10g BCAA/5G Glutamine
Supress C

Post WO
20G BCAA/10G Glutamine
30G Dextrose
3G CEE

30min post
35G whey iso w/skim milk
20mg Havoc
2g fish oil,2gCLA

60min Post meal

Night:
2000IU Vit D
Liver52 1 cap (no milk thistle)
Multi mineral/fruit-veg multi

Loving it, again mirror showing more effects than the scale.

nice .. can u post one of your "OFF" days as well with what you supplement

 

[gymrat827]

i'd drop the 3g of cee - well established and legit research has shown it doesnt work

http://www.ergo-log.com/cee2.html

go with monohydrate or something fancy like Green Mag

I actually have the creatine mixed. Cee, dicreatine malate, creatine mono. I

 

[gymrat827]

OFF day


waking up:
1 cap ERASE
5000 IU Vit D
1 cap Titainum
Multi mineral sup & Multi fruit veg sup
NOW Joint support
20G dextrose/15G BCAA/10G Glutamine


about 4hrs later
2g Fish oil, 1G CLA
Vit C 1000mg
3g Creatine Mix(my personal mixture)
10g BCAA/5g glutamine
450mg Milk Thistle
1 cap Liver52

Pre WO
30g whey iso
8g creatine
200mg caffine
Supress C

Post WO
20G BCAA/10G Glutamine
30G Dextrose
6g creatine mixture

Post WO #2
35G whey Iso W/skim milk 12oz
half table spoon Peanut butter

Post WO #3
Large meal with fast carbs and at least 25g pro

Night
2 caps Redefine Rev PCT (a PCT product and cycle assist combined)
3000 IU Vit D
450mg Milk Thistle
1 cap Liver 52
Multi Mineral & Fruit/veg based multi vit
2g Fish Oil, 2G CLA
NOW joint support


Thats about it....If i forgot some stuff Ill edit the post later.

 

[imjuschillin]

OFF day


waking up:
1 cap ERASE
5000 IU Vit D
1 cap Titainum
Multi mineral sup & Multi fruit veg sup
NOW Joint support
20G dextrose/15G BCAA/10G Glutamine


about 4hrs later
2g Fish oil, 1G CLA
Vit C 1000mg
3g Creatine Mix(my personal mixture)
10g BCAA/5g glutamine
450mg Milk Thistle
1 cap Liver52

Pre WO
30g whey iso
8g creatine
200mg caffine
Supress C

Post WO
20G BCAA/10G Glutamine
30G Dextrose
6g creatine mixture

Post WO #2
35G whey Iso W/skim milk 12oz
half table spoon Peanut butter

Post WO #3
Large meal with fast carbs and at least 25g pro

Night
2 caps Redefine Rev PCT (a PCT product and cycle assist combined)
3000 IU Vit D
450mg Milk Thistle
1 cap Liver 52
Multi Mineral & Fruit/veg based multi vit
2g Fish Oil, 2G CLA
NOW joint support


Thats about it....If i forgot some stuff Ill edit the post later.

Does that seem like a bit of a large amount of creatine? I thought overall the concensus was to leave creatine out of a cycle like this altogether?

 

[gymrat827]

Well it's been 4 wks "on" so far and I'm dropping the creatine til pct 4 more wks

 

[GQNemesis]

Nice thanks for posting off day routine .. So only 1cap of titanium(test booster) on off day ?

As for creatine .. It can be used on pulse ..pple don't use it on full cycles Bc of bloodpressure, back pumps ..


P.s I like ure bcaa/glut. Intake bro .. Keep it up

 

[gymrat827]

Well the PCT revolution helps boost my T levels and ERASE helps out too.

plus 6000 IU vit D