Skin Itching, RPN Havoc??

[monsterbox]

Iv been on havoc for almost 6 weeks and 50mg/day. The last few days I've felt like I've been taking beta-alanine. My skin feels like prickily/itchy...exactly like niacin flush or beta alanine flush. I do not have stomach pain, nausea, or yellowing. Urine is normal. I'm using Liver support and 1g of NAC/day.

Any ideas? Is this a sign of liver cholestasis...if so want to stop immediately...i planned on finishing out this 6th week.

 

[Strygwyr]

I'd have my liver enzymes checked asap if I were you my cholestasis started with yellowing of my eyes first then skin then really bad itching specially on palms and bottom of my feet for 2 months

 

[monsterbox]

I'd have my liver enzymes checked asap if I were you my cholestasis started with yellowing of my eyes first then skin then really bad itching specially on palms and bottom of my feet for 2 months

well the itching is gone...i dont know what it was, i only have 3 days left so ill just finish it out.

What did you take and how long did these side effects occur...how quickly did they pop up and rapidly develop...thats so scary.

 

[Strygwyr]

From what I can remember I ran havoc for 4 weeks with cycle support at 10,20,20,30 then after I took some tamoxifen an started pct a week into it then I woke up with my eyes yellow and 2 to 3 days later extreme itching started 2 weeks later got admitted to the hospital for 2 weeks after got released I was on u Ursodiol and some controlled med to calm me down and make me sleepy to Alleviate my suffering from itching I think my billirubin was 28 lost 20 lbs for 2 months can't sleep and can't eat either. There were nights that I would jump in the shower and would turn on nothing but hot wAter I'd rather feel the burn of the hot water than the itch my bed sheet had a lot of blood in it too cause I would scratch my skin with sharp objects but now I made a full recovery and is even cleared to drink alcohol again. Sorry for my English just moved here in the US not too long ago

 

[JohnT]

From what I can remember I ran havoc for 4 weeks with cycle support at 10,20,20,30 then after I took some tamoxifen an started pct a week into it then I woke up with my eyes yellow and 2 to 3 days later extreme itching started 2 weeks later got admitted to the hospital for 2 weeks after got released I was on u Ursodiol and some controlled med to calm me down and make me sleepy to Alleviate my suffering from itching I think my billirubin was 28 lost 20 lbs for 2 months can't sleep and can't eat either. There were nights that I would jump in the shower and would turn on nothing but hot wAter I'd rather feel the burn of the hot water than the itch my bed sheet had a lot of blood in it too cause I would scratch my skin with sharp objects but now I made a full recovery and is even cleared to drink alcohol again. Sorry for my English just moved here in the US not too long ago

WTF? Were you only taking havoc? I am glad you are doing better.

 

[Strygwyr]

Yes I was only taking havoc sometimes it makes me think too that it might not be the havoc but my tamoxifen. Bought my tamoxifen on a website that was PM to me by one of the member and when I got it it smelled like alcohol and the smell even came out of my pores when a sweat but then again I already been to 3 doctors just to know what caused it and I havnt got a clear answer the first one said it was the havoc the second said it was the tamoxifen and the third said it was both btw I wasn't even drinking or doing drugs no past liver issues either now I just have to blame it on my genetics without really knowing what caused it. : (

 

[enzo123dog]

pruritus or itching can signify elevated hepatic enzymes but there could be a number of reasons why you are itching. if you don't have a rash but were itching it might be worthwhile to pull a ast alt ggt on the net and check it out. like 100.00 for a piece of mind. your liver is forgiving but it is still nice to know if that caused the itching. usually by the time these secondary symptoms appear there has already been an insult. if that's what it was.

 

[needtogetmuscle]

This is the reason why I created the product N2guard. Most people when taking oral steroids focus on protecting the liver and some cholesterol but for the most part that is the extent of there on cycle protection..

Well on oral steroids The kidneys can undergo strain during anabolic steroid intake and even more so well on oral steroids. The kidneys remove waste products from your blood. When your kidneys stop working waste products build up in your blood. These waste products are called uremic toxins. This condition is known as uremia. Your kidneys also make hormones and balance chemicals in your system. When your kidneys stop working many problems can happen. You may develop anemia (low blood count) or conditions that affect your bone, and as such, when a foreign substance is administered, they necessarily work harder. Some steroid users have noticed very dark urine when on a cycle, and this is indicative of the kidneys working overtime to accomplish their goal.

so even though your liver may feel fine and values may even be normal. Your kidneys is another organ to think about. No matter what though the itching is a indication that toxins of some kind or not getting filtered by one of the major organs. These toxins then start to come out of the capilaries in the skin slowly giving you a constant flush type feeling but then it gets worse.

 

[monsterbox]

This is the reason why I created the product N2guard. Most people when taking oral steroids focus on protecting the liver and some cholesterol but for the most part that is the extent of there on cycle protection..

Well on oral steroids The kidneys can undergo strain during anabolic steroid intake and even more so well on oral steroids. The kidneys remove waste products from your blood. When your kidneys stop working waste products build up in your blood. These waste products are called uremic toxins. This condition is known as uremia. Your kidneys also make hormones and balance chemicals in your system. When your kidneys stop working many problems can happen. You may develop anemia (low blood count) or conditions that affect your bone, and as such, when a foreign substance is administered, they necessarily work harder. Some steroid users have noticed very dark urine when on a cycle, and this is indicative of the kidneys working overtime to accomplish their goal.

so even though your liver may feel fine and values may even be normal. Your kidneys is another organ to think about. No matter what though the itching is a indication that toxins of some kind or not getting filtered by one of the major organs. These toxins then start to come out of the capilaries in the skin slowly giving you a constant flush type feeling but then it gets worse.

well i have exaclty 8 pills left..2 more days and i'm done for few months. The itching felt like beta-alanine. Tingly, not an intch like rash feeling...more like pins and needles. Urine has a little brown to it if i dont drink enough water, but doesn't smell unusual. Stools look normal. Eyes look normal, and the peice of skin under my tongue, frenelum? looks normal.

 

[farrellzach]

well i have exaclty 8 pills left..2 more days and i'm done for few months. The itching felt like beta-alanine. Tingly, not an intch like rash feeling...more like pins and needles. Urine has a little brown to it if i dont drink enough water, but doesn't smell unusual. Stools look normal. Eyes look normal, and the peice of skin under my tongue, frenelum? looks normal.

I would go get your lipids checked just to be safe. Post your results here, I'm interested in seeing your lipids.

 

[monsterbox]

I would go get your lipids checked just to be safe. Post your results here, I'm interested in seeing your lipids.

I will, i'm going to wait 2 weeks then get blood test on everything.

 

[farrellzach]

I will, i'm going to wait 2 weeks then get blood test on everything.

Right on, subscribed.

 

[Dragon13]

As enzo said, sounds like the beginning of pruritus, which is a symptom of cholestasis. Blood test can confirm, it's caused by elevated bilirubin, which will be present in cholestasis.

Havoc is rough on the liver, most people around here seem to think it's not, but it's really no joke. 6 weeks at 50 mgs is a pretty serious run. I'd stop and get your blood done ASAP; 2 more days will make little difference gains-wise, but could make a major difference health-wise since it seems you may have already stressed your liver to the max.

 

[CopyCat]

Isn't this like your 3rd or 4th time running havoc? Ever had this happen before? By the way, how'd everything turn out after your mdrol run?

 

[DAdams91982]

Until you get blood tests, no actual answer can be reached.

If it is elevated Bilirubin... go tanning.

 

[monsterbox]

Until you get blood tests, no actual answer can be reached.

If it is elevated Bilirubin... go tanning.

tanning really? I guess the uv breaks down the bilirubin levels in the skin?

Well, my last day of havoc is today and I'm done...the itchy has left a few days ago, I think it was just an allergy to something.

I've read that jaundice starts in the eyes and works its way down the body...but i was itching in random places and no yellowing anywhere.

 

[Whacked]

Nice to hear candid feedback but I am pretty disappointed to hear Havoc is this dang toxic

 

[monsterbox]

well i finished the last of my pills. No itching, no problems...no yellowing. Its not that toxic.

On the other hand m-drol or pplex..VERY toxic...not sure which one did it to me cuz I was bridging both a few years back, but my ALT/AST were in the 500's. No bilirubin elavation tho...

 

[farrellzach]

well i finished the last of my pills. No itching, no problems...no yellowing. Its not that toxic.

On the other hand m-drol or pplex..VERY toxic...not sure which one did it to me cuz I was bridging both a few years back, but my ALT/AST were in the 500's. No bilirubin elavation tho...

How long did it take for you to get back to normal levels after being that high?

 

[monsterbox]

How long did it take for you to get back to normal levels after being that high?

2 weeks

 

[farrellzach]

2 weeks

Gotta love how resilient the liver is!

 

[monsterbox]

Gotta love how resilient the liver is!

I think everyone experiencing that amount of damage if not more...they just dont know it because they get blood drawn after PCT

 

[farrellzach]

I think everyone experiencing that amount of damage if not more...they just dont know it because they get blood drawn after PCT

Yeah after my last SD cycle my ALT was 600 and my AST was like 230, maybe I switched the numbers around, but either way they were just stupid high. That's when I was itchy, but had no yellowing and it took me like 3 weeks or so to start feeling normal again.

 

[Dragon13]

No yellowing is good and all, but let's be honest here: if you get to the point of jaundice, you've already done some rather significant damage to your liver. Don't assume everything will be OK just because jaundice hasn't set in; at that point, you're pretty close to hospitalization.

 

[monsterbox]

Yeah after my last SD cycle my ALT was 600 and my AST was like 230, maybe I switched the numbers around, but either way they were just stupid high. That's when I was itchy, but had no yellowing and it took me like 3 weeks or so to start feeling normal again.

how long and what doses?

 

[dsade]

Nice to hear candid feedback but I am pretty disappointed to hear Havoc is this dang toxic

Considering it was run close to twice the recommended dose, for 50% longer than suggested duration, I think this cycle was asking for trouble.

 

[monsterbox]

evrything is fine guys, urine is clear, no itching ,no yellowing. I ran 40-50mg for 6.25 weeks and finished yesterday.

 

[farrellzach]

how long and what doses?

I ran it at 15/20/20/30

 

[UnrealMachine]

I think everyone experiencing that amount of damage if not more...they just dont know it because they get blood drawn after PCT

Probably more people than would realize it but not most. I ran a combination of SD and Phera for 37 days and got blood drawn the very next morning and my AST/ALT were in the mid 60's.

SD 20/20/20/30
PP 30/30/30/00/30+2days@30

 

[monsterbox]

Well guys, so far so good. Its been 2 days post havoc and I'm feeling fine. My strength is still there and believe it or not, despite loading on creatine now, I look bigger, fuller, stronger, and leaner! WTF!!! hahaha



The only issue i'm having is my sex drive has lowered substantially. Havoc at 50mg was putting it sky high! I mean all I thought about/dreamed about was sex. It was awesome. I think I'm back to normal...but i feel "below" normal.

I'm still on TRT, and HCG and arimidex...but that edge just isn't there anymore...I miss it. Havoc needless to say, spoiled me in the libido aspect. I wish there was something I could take to give that libido effect again. Test at 500mg didn't even bring up the libido like havoc.

Any recommendations? I mean I perform fine, and its still interesting, but sex on havoc was like adderall in the way that you are just fully absorbed..I can't explain it. Perhaps my dopamine receptors have been burned out by the testosterone/havoc usage, is that possible?

 

[UnrealMachine]

lol sounds like you respond so well to havoc you are addicted to it! You are already on TRT so you should be satisifed with the libido level you have. There are test boosters and products that would raise your libido a bit but probably not by much

 

[monsterbox]

lol sounds like you respond so well to havoc you are addicted to it! You are already on TRT so you should be satisifed with the libido level you have. There are test boosters and products that would raise your libido a bit but probably not by much

dude havoc is hands down the best thing in the world period. I wish there was an injectible steroid that mimic'd havoc without the liver problems. I would totally run a low dose as part of my TRT.

 

[UnrealMachine]

and i wish i could run SD 24/7. But sadly there's some things we can't have! But cycling is only so fun because you can't have that feeling all the time, it's special.

Stock up on havoc and run when you can. Keep trying new AAS and you'll probably find something else you respond to pretty well.

 

[Chub]

Any recommendations? I mean I perform fine, and its still interesting, but sex on havoc was like adderall in the way that you are just fully absorbed..I can't explain it. Perhaps my dopamine receptors have been burned out by the testosterone/havoc usage, is that possible?

The new Activate Xtreme stacked with IGF-2 has my already high libido through the roof. If i'm not thinking about sex or doing it i'm dreaming about it

i'd say its around the same level as when i done my havoc cycle last year but i'm only a week into IGF-2 and 2 weeks into AX so its not fully kicked in yet.