SD/Epi cycle calorie intake.

[GSMachinist]

Ima start my cycle pretty soon and i wanted to know how many calories i need to gain the most on this cycle.
SD: 20/20/30/30/ 0/ 0
EP: 0/ 0/ 30/45/60/60
Goal: Bulk

stats
Weight: 200lb
Height: 6ft
bf%: 12%

I was thinking 3000 cals. but want some input.
Exercise 3 day full body split and 1 day off then repeat..
3 times a week HIIT Cardio 10min. sessions (should i even do cardio??)

 

[gymrat827]

Why are you trying to cut on SD? The epi is ok for cutting but nothing like p stanz / 11 sterone??

At 3k cals you would be doing the SD a diservice because it needs lots of cals/carbs to build new muscle. WHen your on your body is forcing extra into you muscles and you are straving it out things wont go smoothly.

I would run p stanz or 11 sterone with the epi and when is done bridge into a SD pulse MWF. Lose the fat first and build clean lean muscle afterwards...

 

[Tomahawk88]

Ya what r ur goals for this cycle? Unless u have a horrible response to carbs(like myself) then u should take more calories in. Sounds like u want to bulk. While on cycle u can eat more calories and not gain as much fat as u normally would.

 

[GSMachinist]

Yeah im trying to bulk sorry..

 

[ntornado]

Yeah im trying to bulk sorry..

Then eat like crazy! 3000 calories is nothing.

 

[GQNemesis]

Gaining size on this cycle will be piece of cake .. I wuld up the cals to atleast 3700+ extra shake or 2 in a day would give u that

How are u running this ? Both compounds for 4 weeks at same time

I would even run epi for 5weeks then throw in sd for last 3weeks

 

[GSMachinist]

SD: 20/20/30/30
EP: 0/ 0/ 30/45/60/60

 

[Tomahawk88]

SD: 20/20/30/30
EP: 0/ 0/ 30/45/60/60

That looks good too. U honestly could probably keep the SD at 20 thoroughout.

 

[GQNemesis]

SD: 20/20/30/30
EP: 0/ 0/ 30/45/60/60

i would end with SD on a cycle ..bc u will need PCT ASAP once u get off sd ..so maybe reverse it ..jus giving an opinion

EPI 30/30/45/45/60
sd 0/0/20/30/30

 

[GSMachinist]

So 3400 it is lol

 

[GSMachinist]

Ok im taking Milk thistle at 2000mg per night on this cycle i started this monday i was wondering if that a good dose or is it to high. I dont want it to effect the epi or sd absorption into my body through the liver. The milk thistle is Walmart brand and im pretty sure its %80 pure. ANY INPUT IS GREATLY APPRECIATED..

 

[GSMachinist]

Bump

 

[reecew]

I think 3400cals is still not enough. Im 5'4" 157lbs and am bulking cleanly with very minimal fat gain on 3250-3500 cals and this is not on a PH/DS. So at 200lbs your going to need more IMO but on that note only you know how you gain on a certain diet.

You need more than milkthistle esecially on SD. You need some NAC and Hawthorne berry additionally at minimum. Why not just buy a cycle assist supplement like N2Guard, Cycle Assist, or Cycle support its got everything you need to protect yourself on cycle man.

 

[GSMachinist]

I'm already taking animal pak multi and omega3 fish ois ust gonna go with the extra MT.. So anyone on the dose to take??

 

[Tomahawk88]

I'm already taking animal pak multi and omega3 fish ois ust gonna go with the extra MT.. So anyone on the dose to take??

There is more to cycle support than just ur liver...

 

[Liftingstud]

You probably need 4000-4200 clean cal... Drop the cardio. Your bulking, its not needed.

Run the SD first like u had planned. Then bridge to epi to help hold the more explosive SD gains.

But yeah, eat like a mad man. If your eating clean you will be surprised how much u cab actually eat and put on very little fat.

 

[Liftingstud]

Ohh yeah def wouldn't overlap 2wks with methyls.

SD: 20/20/30/30
Epi: 0/0/030/40/40-50/40-50

 

[GSMachinist]

You probably need 4000-4200 clean cal... Drop the cardio. Your bulking, its not needed.

Run the SD first like u had planned. Then bridge to epi to help hold the more explosive SD gains.

But yeah, eat like a mad man. If your eating clean you will be surprised how much u cab actually eat and put on very little fat.

Dmn bro im eating right know 3500 cals ur saying to up it another 500 lol dmn i used to be fat bro like at 270 but i got down to 190 at 11% and well know im bulking so yeah kindve weary about upping the cals so much lol.. Oh and the cardio is ust for 10min its not a lot so i dnt think it will effect my gains that much??

 

[ZamaMan]

1 this is a stupid question because we don't know your maintenance

2 all th awnsers have been horrible so far cause they don't know your maintenance

okay now that that's out of the way do you know how many calories it takes you o maintain your weight (not go up or down). Since you have been cutting you should have a decent estimate of when the fat started to come off and maybe add a few hundred cals to that number.

If you know your maintainance calories eating 500 above will give nice lean gains for
more people depending on genetics. When on SD your body will be so great at converting carbs to glycogen and storing it in your muscles for energy along with a huge increase in it's ability to process protein. Sooooooo you can risk eating more if you want in theory some more muscle gains which will come along with fat. 700-800 cals over is alot extra and can build alot of muscle an store some fat. Some go 1000 cals over when on an all out bulk.

Why do you need thr number? Well let's assume you have a slow metabolism since your a former fat boy, and your maintenance is 2600 calories. If you eat 3100 your be 500 aboveand gain nice and steady. Now I'm an ecto and haven't had fat problems, say my maintenance is around 3200 or so. If I eat 3100 cals I would be losing weight very very slowly and not building. If I est 3600 cals or so I build nicely, 4000 I gain a little more fat than I'd like 4500-5000 I gain way to much fat. So you see how if we switch numbers it would be bad for us?
Perfect example being unreal machine has a relatively slow metabolism. Dispite being about 20lb heavier than me with about 30lb more muse mass than I we have around the same caloric intake requirement. So it's based solely on individual.

Now week one will be filled with glyocgen weight gains. Week two is when thr muscle will start flying on so increase cals more in that week along with week three.

Rum SD first. Even though if will shut you down more the epi will allow your body to get used the the mass and make it easy to maintain after pct.


If you need Amy more opinions feel free to pm anytime.

 

[GSMachinist]

K my maintenance on the calorie calculator said i need is 3000cal.

 

[Liftingstud]

K my maintenance on the calorie calculator said i need is 3000cal.

He didn't mean go run and use some program. You should know your maintaince cals, it's found through trial and error and tweaks in your diet. Like he was trying to say above, everyone body is different, no cal calculator can tell u what u need. It can give you a starting point.

 

[GSMachinist]

Ok well i was loosing weight when i was at 2500 hundred cals so add 500 hundred to that equal my 3000 maintenance cals correct? Then add 500 to 3000 to make start bulking and putting on weight 3500 it equals??

 

[ZamaMan]

Ok well i was loosing weight when i was at 2500 hundred cals so add 500 hundred to that equal my 3000 maintenance cals correct? Then add 500 to 3000 to make start bulking and putting on weight 3500 it equals??

Not necessarily. See t depends how fast you were losing fat. A lb of fat tajes roughly 3600 calories of defecit to lose I believe. So if you were losing a lb a week while eating 2500 cals than you can do the math to get close to your caloric needs. Now this will not be exact.

In all truth your not ready for a cycle. Especially since this is your first bulk it sounds like. Granted on your first bulk you will gain like a weed so if you over shoot your calories it's gonna punish you less than it would in say year two of bulking. The reason why I feel you need wait and bulk natty for a little bit is this, you can be easily fooled into thinking your eating enough during week one cause your body will be flying up in weight on SD due to the carbs on your body being converted to glycogen and stored in the muscles. So you can be fooled either way if your eatig too much or not enough.

Your only option when not knowing your maintenance is eat too much to be better safe than sorry since it would be a horrible waste to do something that will damageyour body to a degree and not get alot of muscle gains. Even of it's not an optimal muscle to fat ratio.

 

[GSMachinist]

K got it bro i have a better understanding know thanks