First timer, with "TEST E". FLAME AWAY
- 10-04-2010, 12:48 PM
First timer, with "TEST E". FLAME AWAY
Stats: 23years old, 190lbs @12%bf, Solid lifts, Bench 330, Squat 315 REPS, Deads 405ish.
Hey everyone, just learned about the site threw a buddy of mine. We have been lifting together about 4-5 years, and he decided to just on a cycle and I am following. He got Sutanon 250 however, I was able to get TEST E or Testerone Enanthate. (which I heard is actually better do to the esters in sustanon and having to EOD shots.) I am just getting as much possible knowledge I can before starting.
I have a few questions, I have done some PH cycle before and always bounced back great with Nolva, never used HCG (I am a newb at HCG and dont completely understand it) as well as incorperating an AI. I didnt know if Nolva and maybe a natty T booster would be suficient PCT for a 12 week Test cycle since with the PH's bloodwork came back great with just that.
The PLAN (as of now) INPUT is wanted!
Weeks 1-10 Test E @ 500mg
Weeks 10-12 Test E @ 250mg
Will Inject Monday, and Thursday
Weeks 14-18 Nolva, 40-40-20-20
Diet, I suppose eat like a horse as clean as I can. Lots o' Protien, try to stay away from bad carbs and sugar. 500 above on workout days, maybe a bit under on OFF days? Not sure yet tho on the off days as I do wanna keep fat to a minimum but dont want to Extremely hinder gains. Maybe even some cardio on days OFF.
This is the part I get alot of opinions on as well, some say go harder but not all..
Either a FB done monday, wednesday, and friday. Mainly major lifts with a few Iso's
Split, manday, wednesday, and friday (Chest/tris, Back/bis, Legs/shoulders)
5 day body part split, I have never tried and alot of people bash em.
Flame away if its that bad, I didnt now if HCG or an AI was needed or not. And YES I have researched its just hard with so much Internet BS and I know that was asking about every aspect there is, however like I said, I am researching and learning, I am not just "Jumping in" like alot do.
- 10-04-2010, 12:56 PM
HCG protocols have been posted by me before, go to my profile select past posts and look for HCG. Basically its 500ius E5D, have an AI on hand, dont run it unless you need to. might look into proviron or whinny if your a pudgy bastard, and clomid, nolva, torem, or any other serm for pct.
sorry for seeming like a **** but, here we have to heads doing cycles and neither one of you knows what you are doing. Blind lemming, leading blind lemmings.
10-04-2010, 12:57 PM
i dont understand ur setup...what does " 1-10 Test E 500mg/week, 1-12 Test E 250mg/week" mean?...are u asking which is better?
if u want to gain muscle, fat, water....whatever...u need to eat above maintenance everyday, just keep it "clean" and do a little bit of cardio 3-4x per week and u should accumulate too much (if any) fat.
personally i like a 5 day split, basically because i love being in the gym, and on gear recovery is much quicker so theres no need to have every other day as a recovery day.
let me know if i didnt answer something
10-04-2010, 01:02 PM
10-04-2010, 02:45 PM
10-04-2010, 08:58 PM
10-04-2010, 09:00 PM
10-04-2010, 09:02 PM
As far as the 5 day a week split, Id be going into that blind. Plus, I have school and work so I am hoping to hit it hard m,w,f. But if people think while on cycle I should go 5days I will. Im here to learn.
10-04-2010, 09:10 PM
BACK ON SUBJECT!!!! I have seen way worse setups! Help me out!
I thought 12 weeks test @500 with a SERM ie: nolva was a pretty "typical" "safe" cycle!
10-04-2010, 09:38 PM
Dang, been reading more on HCG some studies ya'll posted on here really make me wanna run it on cycle. Looks like it can really help with recomp. ( I wanna keep my balls and natty test goin)
10-05-2010, 12:21 AM
Man, I am trying to figure the same cycle out. Why is it so all over between, (Yes get an AI and Yes get some HCG) Dang, theres gotta be some straight studys/answers!
10-05-2010, 10:02 AM
Chorionic gonadotropin is a hormone found in the female body during the early months of pregnancy (it is produced in the placenta). It is in fact the pregnancy indicator looked at by the over the counter pregnancy test kits, as due to its origin it is not found in the body at any other time. Blood levels of this hormone will become noticeable as early as seven days after ovulation. The level will rise evenly, reaching a peak at approximately two to three months into gestation. After this point, the hormone level will drop gradually until the point of birth. As a prescription drug, HCG offers us some interesting benefits. In the United States, we have the two popular brands, Pregnyl, made by Organon, and Profasi, made by Serono. These are FDA approved for the treatment of undescended testicles in young boys, hypogonadism (underproduction of testosterone) and as a fertility drug used to aid in inducing ovulation in women. When prepared as a medical item, this hormone comes from a human origin. Although there is often a fear of biological origin products, there is little research to be found regarding pathogen or sterility problems with HCG. The problems seen with human origin growth hormone are certainly not to be repeated with HCG, as this compound is obtained in a much different way.
While HCG offers the female no performance enhancing ability, it does prove very useful to the male steroid user. The obvious use of course being to stimulate the production of endogenous testosterone. The activity of HCG in the male body is due to its ability to mimic LH (luteinizing hormone), a pituitary hormone that stimulates the Leydig's cells in the testes to manufacture testosterone. Restoring endogenous testosterone production is a special concern at the end of each steroid cycle, a time when a subnormal androgen level (due to steroid induced suppression) could be very costly. The main concern is the action of cortisol, which in many ways is balanced out by the effect of androgens. Cortisol sends the opposite message to the muscles than testosterone, or to breakdown protein in the cell. Left unchecked (by an extremely low testosterone level) in the body, cortisol can quickly strip much of your new muscle mass away.
The main focus with HCG is to restore the normal ability of the testes to respond to endogenous luteinizing hormone. After a long period of inactivity, this ability may have been seriously reduced. In such a state testosterone levels may not reach a normal point, even though the release of endogenous LH has been resumed. Many who have suffered severe testicular shrinkage may be able to relate, as it is often some time before normal testicle size and feelings of virility are restored if ancillary drugs had not been used. The excessive stimulation brought forth by administration of HCG can likewise cause the testicles to rapidly return to their normal size and level of activity. We are not simply looking for it to fix the problem however, as the resulting high testosterone level can itself trigger negative feedback inhibition at the hypothalamus. Estrogen production is also heightened with the use of HCG, due to its ability to increase aromatase activity in the Leydig's cells. This is due to the main action of HCG, namely the increase of cycIicAMP (a secondary messenger that regulates cellular activity). When stimulated by HCG, the ability of the testes to aromatize androgens could potentially be heightened several times greater than normal. This also may inhibit testosterone production, so we therefore use HCG only as a quick shock to the testes.
The usual protocol is to inject 1500-3000 I.U. every 4th or 5th day, for a duration usually no longer than 2 or 3 weeks. If used for too long or at too high a dose, the drug may actually function to desensitize the Leydig's cells to luteinizing hormone, further hindering a return to homeostasis. Timing the initial dose is also very crucial. If your were coming off a cycle of Sustanon for example, testosterone levels in your blood will likely stay elevated for at least 3 to 4 weeks after your last injection. Taking HCG on the day of your last shot would therefore be useless. Instead one would want to calculate the last week in which androgen levels are likely to be above normal, and begin ancillary drug therapy at this point. In this case HCG would be started around the third or fourth week. Likewise, after ending a cycle of Dianabol (an oral) your blood levels will be sub normal after the third day. Here you may want to begin HCG therapy a few days before your last intake of tablets, giving it a few days to take effect. One would also want to give some thought to the level of suppression that the cycle might have brought about. After an 8 week cycle of Equipoise for example, 1500-2500 I.U. would likely be a sufficient initial dosage. The lower amount of hormonal suppression one associates with this drug would probably not require much more. On the other hand, 750-1000mg of Sustanon per week might incline the user to inject a much larger HCG dose, perhaps as much as 5000 I.U. for the opening application. It may thereafter also be a good idea to reduce the dosage on subsequent shots, so as to step down the intake of HCG during the two or three weeks of intake.
As discussed above, HCG acts only to mimic the action of LH. It is likewise not the perfect hormone to combat testosterone suppression, and for this reason it is used most often in conjunction with estrogen antagonists such as Clomid, Nolvadex or cyclofenil. These drugs have a different effect on the regulating system, namely inhibiting estrogen-induced suppression at the hypothalamus. This of course also helps to restore the release of testosterone, although through a much different mechanism than HCG. A combination of both drugs appears to be very synergistic, HCG providing an immediate effect on the testes (shocking them out of inactivity) while the anti-estrogen helps later to block inhibition on the hypothalamus and resume the normal release of gonadotropins from the pituitary. The typical procedure involves giving the Clomid/Nolvadex dose from the start with HCG, but continuing it alone for a few weeks once HCG has been discontinued. This practice should effectively raise testosterone levels, which will hopefully remain stable once Clomid/Nolvadex have been discontinued. While unfortunately there is no way to retain all of the muscle gains produced by anabolic steroids, using ancillaries to restore a balanced hormonal state is the best way to minimize the loss felt with ending a cycle.
I give a f**K!!
10-05-2010, 02:01 PM
Dam, good post, yet it still negotiates the pros and cons. How hard will a 10-12 week cycle of test shut u down? I mean, should I expect FULL recovery?
10-06-2010, 01:30 AM
10-06-2010, 01:09 PM
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