M1T/Tren bulk critiques please :D
- 09-27-2010, 09:55 PM
M1T/Tren bulk critiques please :D
So guys the plan goes like this:
wk 1: M1T @ 15mg ED
Clen @ 40/60/80/100/120/120/120
wk 2: M1T @ 15mg ED
Clen @ 120/120/120/120/120/60/40
wk 3-4: M1T @ 10mg ED
Tren @ 90mg ED
wk 5: Tren @ 90mg ED
Clen @ 40/60/80/100/120/120/120
wk 6: Tren @ 120mg ED
Clen @ 120/120/120/120/120/60/40
I want to use the clen to try and minimize the bloat on the M1T, and keep my gains as lean as possible. The Vitex and P5P are both going to be used to keep possible prolactin related gyno from occuring.
2 wks prior and wks 1-4 Milk thistle
wk 1-6: CEL cycle support
NOW Red Yeast Rice with CoQ10 @ 600mg ED
wk 2-4: vitex @ 400mg ED
wk 2-6: p5p @ 300mg ED
I also have nolva and clomid on hand just in case.
Plan on bumping up my calories about 500 or so at the start of this cycle as welll.
PCT is still up in the air for now, not planning on running this for another month or so, but any thoughts for a possible PCT are more than welcome. Any feedback would be great, I want to make this as fun and productive as possible. cheers!
- 09-27-2010, 10:12 PM
get ready to get shut down completely with this.
everything looks good except the clen IMO.
if you want to control bloat just get an AI, or if your really serious about getting rid of it then get letro
just sayin.Eat Clean. Train Dirty.
09-27-2010, 10:17 PM
The thought of M1T and Clen stacked gives me a stroke just thinking about it. But if that doesn't git'r dun the Tren at 120mg and Clen ought to.
09-27-2010, 10:19 PM
Thanks for the feedback, I should have been more clear on why I was using the clen. I want to use it so I can shred a good amount of bf while on this cycle. I am prepared for the shutdown but I am hoping that it will be a temporary sacrifice for a great turnout. Thanks again for the quick response hard iron.
09-27-2010, 10:21 PM
haha thank you Dunn for the sarcasm! should I up the dose on my RYR with coQ10 to try and combat this?
09-28-2010, 12:10 AM
Wow sounds extremely hard on your body. I would not personal run all that. Remember to not really consider tren a mild compound it is just as harsh most methyls.
I would possible run the two steroids stacked but wouldn't do it with clen.
Either way log it for us bro!!
09-28-2010, 12:26 AM
Thank you for the input Zama, I have run tren before at 90mg for 6 weeks a couple of times before and had no bad sides. My libido even stayed perfectly fine! I am second guessing the clen however. Should I just run the clen 2 weeks prior to this cycle, and then finish off the last 2 weeks of the cycle with it? so I would only be running the clen with the Tren rather than with the M1T and Tren at the same time. any thoughts on this guys?
09-28-2010, 12:28 AM
09-28-2010, 01:13 AM
09-28-2010, 03:42 AM
09-28-2010, 08:05 AM
09-28-2010, 11:59 AM
This is just plan dumb cycle. Reason why M1T is for bulking... Not cutting down. It's a all out mass and strength anabolic with a host of nasty sides. Then u want to through in the "tren" PH after 4 wks and still cont with Clen. If you dont stroke out or have massive headaches have fun.
Cutting is more about diet not slamming your body with a bunch if anabolics. The anabolics are used to help preserve muscle in a cal deficient state.
Why not try hdrol and Clen? Or maybe epi and Clen for 6 wks. That makes way more sense.
09-28-2010, 01:49 PM
Thank you for the advice Liftingstud. I know a bit about the M1T and I am not so concerned with the strength gain as I am gaining as much lean muscle as possible while keeping the water/fat gain off. I know that the M1T is great for gaining overall mass including muscle as well as water etc, and its great ability for strength gain. I want to keep this cycle as lean as it can be.
What do you think about the new plan of running clen 2 weeks prior to this cycle and then just keep my diet and cardio in check while on the M1T. I would really like to throw in the clen again with maybe the last 2 weeks on "tren" alone, or the last week of tren and the first week of pct. what are your thoughts?
09-28-2010, 01:50 PM
Oh and thank you Dunn for your help. Clen + M1T... don't know what I was thinking. I guess this weekends trip to vegas for the Olympia distorted my thinking!!!
09-28-2010, 02:20 PM
Honestly I would ditch the m1t til ur ready to bulk. IMO it's worthless when trying to lean out. You will retain water when using it. But after you come off and the water sheds you prob will be leaner. Just seems odd to trying to run clen before or during.
Like I said run "tren" 90-12mg for 6 wks with hdrol 75-100mg or epi 40-50mg. With a good clean diet you should pack on some serious lean muscle and shed some fat. Esp if coupled with some HIT cardio. But can't stress it enough... It's all diet.
I just would cation tren and clen unless u r really watching your bp. I remember running tren and def noticed bp issues even running support supps. Could only imagine what clen would add to it.
09-28-2010, 02:34 PM
09-28-2010, 02:36 PM
Okay thank you for the advice. Right now I am about 14% bf currently cutting. I wanted to run this cycle in about a month so hopefully I can put a good dent into the bf before hitting the M1T. I think I am going to take your advice and save the clen for later, maybe pct? So in light of this advice, I guess I am going to try and gain insane on the M1T with some mild cardio weeks 1-4 and just increase the cardio the last two weeks on tren.
09-28-2010, 02:37 PM
09-28-2010, 08:09 PM
09-28-2010, 09:59 PM
I see what you are saying, but I dont necessarily think you have to run a bulk with the mentality of "gain as much strength and weight as possible". If my goal is to gain a lot but keep the water weight to a minimum, wouldn't that still be consider a bulk? I am basically stacking something I know has been proven to yield a large amount of lean muscle gain accompanied with significant water (what I do not want) with something known to combat this water weight. I have ran epi and tren before, neither of which yielded as significant results in the lean muscle department as M1T is supposed to.
I understand M1T is good for an all out gainer, but so is SD right? people have chosen to use SD on cutting cycles as well, actually I think Unreal said something about that in his SD thread a while back.
I do not think that just because M1T is normally thought of as an extreme mass builder, that that means I must be willing to run it with that mentality and take the bloat that comes with it. Just looking at it from a different perspective I think Liftingstud. I want the large lean muscle gains of M1T and I want the least amount of bloat possible, thats why I have chosen the clen to throw in there. Clen is significantly anabolic to my understanding and a lot less likely to target muscle tissue to breakdown than opposed to say t3, (I may be wrong here) so if I were to run clen in the pct, which I have also seen people on this forum do with good results, wouldn't it still want to burn fat/ get rid of the water that I had gained on the cycle rather than the real "gains" in muscle?
I dont know I guess thats what I have been thinking in my head ^_^ let me know where I am wrong because I probably am somewhere.. always learning.
09-28-2010, 10:10 PM
also I think this little thing is really messing with me:
this past weekend I attended the Mr. O. and at the expo I met flex lewis, talked to him for a bit etc. he told me he was in the process of bulking (looked pretty damn big for a 202er) since he just won a show pretty recently and that was why he was not competing in the 202 this year. I noticed when I shook his hand and took a picture with him that his hand was extremely shaky, which I am assuming is a side effect of running something like clen. and if he was "bulking" im sure he was on some kind of potent mass gainer at the same time which is why I had the idea for this cycle =/
09-28-2010, 10:16 PM
09-28-2010, 10:39 PM
Trying to put out the bloat and other sides with clen particularly on M1T...is going to be like trying to put out a forest fire with a super soaker IMO.
Eat Clean. Train Dirty.
09-28-2010, 10:48 PM
thank you again dunn for that insight but I think I meant "fat gain" not bloat? In william llewellyn's book he says that "it is believed that the body does not appreciably aromatize methyl-1-testosterone. It is of note, however, that this steroid likely has inherent prgestational activity. The side effects associated with progesterone are similar to those of estrogen including negative feedback inhibition of testosterone production and enahnced rate of fat storage". I know that "tren" also has progestational side effects as well just not as bad in the fat gain area due to its thermogenic effect, but the possibility is still there. I guess when I said bloat, I meant "fat gain", my bad. and in this case, wouldn't clen be effective in helping me reduce the bf gained on this cycle?
maybe I am confused somewhere..
09-28-2010, 10:55 PM
So, you concur with the progestin.
If it indeed does promote the propensity to store fat it would be fat from a caloric surplus. If you are in a caloric surplus and use clen all the clen will be doing is increasing your metabolic rate and burning up those calories if anything. Why not eat in a controlled incremental surplus and not get fat as opposed to risking your health by using the clen with a notoriously heart health risky substance.
For the most part people have discouraged you to use it. You asked and that is what you are getting. if you want to use then just use it
09-28-2010, 11:00 PM
Thank you Dunn, I have realized the increasing trend from the members here to recommend against this idea haha, I am not going to go against the majority but I did want to make sure that I had all bases covered here, plus I learned a good amount along the way. Would it still be as bad of an idea to run the clen in post cycle though like Liftingstud had mentioned earlier? I would like to hear your opinion on running the clen in pct too Dun, if possible.
09-28-2010, 11:11 PM
you should do a m1t/anadrol log instead, since you're going all out, or m1t/methyltrienolone, now that'll get you some rep points!
09-28-2010, 11:35 PM
Bloat is not always estrogen. Often they van have effects on aldosterone and you can retain more Na. By retaining more so it will naturally pull water with it. Hence a nonestrogen related bloat. I think dmt my have this effect. Because lots of people will report bloating (dosent aromatize) and other get lean and hard on it. Just my thoughts not sure if that's why it occurs.
It's just taking these 3 combo is asking for def BP issues. Could lead to dangerously high levels.
Screw it dude get some prop and tren ace. That will really do it!
So u ran epi and tren and you didn't fine it gave u lean mass while stripping some fat? That's def odd. Cause I am sure those two with a Keto type diet and proper cardio would get u shredded. Esp if u added clen to the mix. And the potential for problems is way less.
But it's your call bro.
09-28-2010, 11:43 PM
yeah thanks for the advice Liftingstud I am pretty content at not running the clen so close to the M1T or tren for that matter. I am not sure if I was unclear about my previous runs with epi and tren or not, but I did notice lean gains like you had said. I just know that the lean gains I received from these two would not be as much as the possible lean muscle gain from running the M1T and tren.
All in all I am definitely grateful for all of the advice everyone here has given me on this cycle, which is why I love reading up on AM. It looks like Im going to just run the M1T and tren at the dosages listed originally matched with good diet and cardio and tossin out the clen. possibly throw in some androhard to increase DHT while on cycle as well.
Now, thoughts on PCT? lol.
09-28-2010, 11:59 PM
getting your natty test levels back is going to be like getting Grandpa's old Truck to start thats been sitting in the backyard for years. lol
....and whatever else, creatine, cortisol blocker, etc,etc
Eat Clean. Train Dirty.
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