Max LMG vs M1,4ADD

[BigFatPanda]

I've been all over the net and I'm trying to compile a comparison between Max LMG and M1,4ADD. Here is it what I have so far... feel free to add more...

Max LMG
progestin
kills libido
wet
can cause gyno
great for size
not-methylated
better for joints

M1,4ADD
androstane
not so bad on libido
less wet than m-lmg
converts to dianabol at 15%
great for strength
methylated

 

[schwellington]

m14add is good for size too- i say m14add less chance of sides than with m-lmg

 

[sam805]

dont know where this wet crap comes from. dbol is wet sustanon is wet cyp and enthanate are wet. mlmg is not wet am on my 2nd week no gyno not wet love it. reminds me more of real tren than dienolone. very warm. 150 mg pstanz 150mg fura with 75mg of mlmg pretty nice little unmethylated stack.

 

[UnrealMachine]

wet for some people, libido kill for some people, gyno for some people, great for other people, ALL luck of the draw. M1,4ADD is probably a safer bet.

 

[BigFatPanda]

wet for some people, libido kill for some people, gyno for some people, great for other people, ALL luck of the draw. M1,4ADD is probably a safer bet.

so much for my comparison lol... safer in what sense?

 

[UnrealMachine]

from my perspective M14 is a safer bet because for me the prolactin gyno on max LMG was so bad I got off cycle and gave the rest of it away. I have problems with progestational steroids

dbol on the other hand is about as tried and true as you can get. keep estrogen and blood pressure in check and there shouldn't be anything else to worry about. prolactin is much more complicated.

 

[BigFatPanda]

from my perspective M14 is a safer bet because for me the prolactin gyno on max LMG was so bad I got off cycle and gave the rest of it away. I have problems with progestational steroids

dbol on the other hand is about as tried and true as you can get. keep estrogen and blood pressure in check and there shouldn't be anything else to worry about. prolactin is much more complicated.

Oh, I get what you mean. Ok, let me ask you this... if you didn't have those problems with progestational steroids. Would you ever choose M-LMG over M1,4ADD? More importantly, what can one offer you that the other can't. Thats why I started this thread in the first place, because as far as gains they seem very similar.

 

[2k1s]

aren't you already on m1,4?

 

[schwellington]

on what they offer- it all depends on how ur body responds

 

[stxnas]

dont know where this wet crap comes from. dbol is wet sustanon is wet cyp and enthanate are wet. mlmg is not wet am on my 2nd week no gyno not wet love it. reminds me more of real tren than dienolone. very warm. 150 mg pstanz 150mg fura with 75mg of mlmg pretty nice little unmethylated stack.

Have you used M-LMG by itself? You're currently taking it with two very dry actives. Maybe that's helping with the bloat, no?

You also might have just found a good dose for you. Some people will bloat more than others. I want to say that I recall some touting great libido with few sides from M(ax)-LMG (X-Mass), but only at lower doses (25mg - 40mg per day).

 

[EasyEJL]

Oh, I get what you mean. Ok, let me ask you this... if you didn't have those problems with progestational steroids. Would you ever choose M-LMG over M1,4ADD? More importantly, what can one offer you that the other can't. Thats why I started this thread in the first place, because as far as gains they seem very similar.

Max LMG at relatively high doses (125mg+) gives the most awesome recovery every. Better than high dosed test + gh. Literally felt like I could do whole body workouts daily.

 

[felost]

m1,4add + X-tren is the deal heheheheh

BUUUUULK

 

[BigFatPanda]

aren't you already on m1,4?

Nope I'm on day 9 of H-drol. I plan on starting m-lmg or m1,4 on week 4 of h-drol and running either one for 4 weeks with the h-drol.

 

[BigFatPanda]

Max LMG at relatively high doses (125mg+) gives the most awesome recovery every. Better than high dosed test + gh. Literally felt like I could do whole body workouts daily.

Thats what I like to hear!

 

[BigFatPanda]

I was just saying in another thread that I should run them both! haha... that certainly would be an interesting experience.

 

[wastedwhiteboy2]

I think m1,4 will bloat you more. I also keep my gains more on m1,4 even though there is a lot of water weight.

 

[schwellington]

I was just saying in another thread that I should run them both! haha... that certainly would be an interesting experience.

bad idea thats like ASKING for gyno

 

[BigFatPanda]

bad idea thats like ASKING for gyno

Yeah I wouldn't seriously do that...

 

[2k1s]

run it earlier. week 4 of your cycle just seems crazy

 

[BigFatPanda]

run it earlier. week 4 of your cycle just seems crazy

You think so? I mean I'm running H-drol for 8 weeks.

 

[jbryand101b]

I'm gonna bust some bubbles. dont hate the messenger though.

first, many people dont know, and I just learned, max lmg isn't methylated. it is ethylated. 13b ethyl.

this makes it a 17b alkalyted (sp) pro hormone, it is similar to norbolethone, with is an oral 13a ethyl steroid.

Next, m14add's conversion to dbol is insignificant, and not known. like hd, results are from the compound itself, no need to convert.

Never used m14add, but I am stacking max lmg with dimethazine (dieselbolan v2.o) and am lovin it.

I'd like to stack dimeth with m14add and see how it compares.

 

[hungryH]

I'm gonna bust some bubbles. dont hate the messenger though.

first, many people dont know, and I just learned, max lmg isn't methylated. it is ethylated. 13b ethyl.

this makes it a 17b alkalyted (sp) pro hormone, it is similar to norbolethone, with is an oral 13a ethyl steroid.

Next, m14add's conversion to dbol is insignificant, and not known. like hd, results are from the compound itself, no need to convert.

Never used m14add, but I am stacking max lmg with dimethazine (dieselbolan v2.o) and am lovin it.

I'd like to stack dimeth with m14add and see how it compares.

very good post.

The structure of m14add is very very similar to h-drol. In fact, it is basically h-drol with the ability to aromatize.I would go with lmg for this reason. Also the fact that you are running the h-drol for 8weeks might be a bit dangerous to add in another methyl.Being an ethyl, the LMG has little hepatoxicity.

 

[BigFatPanda]

very good post.

The structure of m14add is very very similar to h-drol. In fact, it is basically h-drol with the ability to aromatize.I would go with lmg for this reason. Also the fact that you are running the h-drol for 8weeks might be a bit dangerous to add in another methyl.Being an ethyl, the LMG has little hepatoxicity.

I don't really see how the structure of m1,4add and h-drol are similar. It is well known that m-lmg is an ethyl and the hepatoxicity is not as bad. In any case, I would be taking livercare in addition to my cycle assist starting day one of m1,4add or m-lmg. It seems that adding in m1,4add would make my cycle more strength and size oriented...but the m-lmg would make it more recovery and size oriented.

 

[stopstalking]

i dont see a reason to stack to methyls here when mlmg is gonna give you size and strength

 

[stopstalking]

also liver supps are not miracles they just help. 8 weeks is a long time on one methyl adding another seems like a bad idea.

 

[zachmanman]

is max-lmg a 19-nor?

 

[BigFatPanda]

is max-lmg a 19-nor?

Yep.

 

[schwellington]

very good post.

The structure of m14add is very very similar to h-drol. In fact, it is basically h-drol with the ability to aromatize.I would go with lmg for this reason. Also the fact that you are running the h-drol for 8weeks might be a bit dangerous to add in another methyl.Being an ethyl, the LMG has little hepatoxicity.

m14add is not similar to hdrol- wow hdrol is similar to promagnon-25 or pmag as it is more widely known-if you look at the compound of m14 and hdrol- nothing alike-research

 

[BigFatPanda]

m14add is not similar to hdrol- wow hdrol is similar to promagnon-25 or pmag as it is more widely known-if you look at the compound of m14 and hdrol- nothing alike-research

Exactly! Well said.

 

[stopstalking]

correct me if im wrong but max lmg is not a 19 nor

it is a progestin but not 19 nor

 

[schwellington]

as far as stacking methyls- i do it- but i dont ever stack more than two- my cycle right now

m14add-30/60/60/60/90/90/0/0
1ad-100/200/300/300/0/0/0
pmag-0/0/0/0/25/50/75/75

8 weeker- should solidify the mass i put on too

 

[BigFatPanda]

correct me if im wrong but max lmg is not a 19 nor

it is a progestin but not 19 nor

I remember reading that its some kind of 19-nor but you know the sources of info are starting to get less and less reliable.

 

[BigFatPanda]

as far as stacking methyls- i do it- but i dont ever stack more than two- my cycle right now

m14add-30/60/60/60/90/90/0/0
1ad-100/200/300/300/0/0/0
pmag-0/0/0/0/25/50/75/75

8 weeker- should solidify the mass i put on too

That sounds solid.

 

[jbryand101b]

okay, It is time for jbry's class on prohormones/gray market steroids.

Halodrol:
4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3b,17b-diol<-steroid

M14add:
17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3b,17b-diol<--steroid

Boldione:
androst-1,4-diene-3b,17b-dione<-pro hormone

as you can see here, all of these are pro hormones to a form of boldenone.

halodrol is methylated boldiol with a 4chloro group attached, which prevents it from aromatizing, as well as interacting with the 5a reductase enzyme.

methylated boldiol is a bold ph with a methyl group. the methyl group makes the compound more orally available, as well as gives it it's own properties, needing no conversion. how it interacts with the ar I dont believe is known though.
-----------------------

max lmg becomes 13b-ethyl-norandrostenedione in the stomach, and then can be converted into 13b-ethyl-nortestosterone.

methylated steroids, and ethylated steroids, are all mostly 17alpha alkalyated (17aa) this is a 17beta alkalyted (17b a).

hepatotoxicity is still a possibility, and cycle length should be kept to 6-8 weeks max.

max lmg is an androgen, it has stronger progestin receptor activity than deca, and as well has minor aromatization into estrogen.

 

[BigFatPanda]

okay, It is time for jbry's class on prohormones/gray market steroids.

Halodrol:
4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3b,17b-diol<-steroid

M14add:
17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3b,17b-diol<--steroid

Boldione:
androst-1,4-diene-3b,17b-dione<-pro hormone

as you can see here, all of these are pro hormones to a form of boldenone.

halodrol is methylated boldiol with a 4chloro group attached, which prevents it from aromatizing, as well as interacting with the 5a reductase enzyme.

methylated boldiol is a bold ph with a methyl group. the methyl group makes the compound more orally available, as well as gives it it's own properties, needing no conversion. how it interacts with the ar I dont believe is known though.
-----------------------

max lmg becomes 13b-ethyl-norandrostenedione in the stomach, and then can be converted into 13b-ethyl-nortestosterone.

methylated steroids, and ethylated steroids, are all mostly 17alpha alkalyated (17aa) this is a 17beta alkalyted (17b a).

hepatotoxicity is still a possibility, and cycle length should be kept to 6-8 weeks max.

max lmg is an androgen, it has stronger progestin receptor activity than deca, and as well has minor aromatization into estrogen.

Ok, this is actually pretty interesting. At the moment, I can't see any reason how you would be wrong.

So, using that same logic. If one would be taking M1,4 with an AI, disabling its aromatizing properties, wouldn't that be the same thing as taking H-Drol? I recall information on how H-drol and P-mag is similar. Now, if M1,4add with an AI (such as formestane) is similar to H-drol and you're stacking m1,4 with P-mag...wouldn't that be like stacking h-drol with p-mag? which begs the question why would you want to do that?

The worst part of all of this is the difficulty in stamping a particular description to each compound. It seems that difficulty stems the fact that everyone responds differently. As a result, they believe their results are the science behind it. So, most of the internet is actually clouded with subjective results as science.

I might be thinking too much into this, but its pretty interesting.

 

[jbryand101b]

funny you mention that, as I had addressed that issue in a m14add +pmag thread.

but anyhow, the 4chloro group does prevent aromatization, but as well prevents it from interacting with the 5a reductase enzyme.

when you take 1,4-andro, and it interacts with 5a reductase, it becomes 1-5a andro.

or better, 1-androstenediol= 1-dht=1-testosterone.

so just using an ai with m14add would prevent it from aromatizing, but it would have the possibility of becoming a more potent androgen as well, which the 4chloro in hd prevents this from happening.

pmag is 4chloro 17a methyl 4-androstenediol, basically more similar to clostebol, or methyl clostebol.

the 4 chloro group prevents the 4-androstenediol from aromatizing (which 4-androstenediol doesn't aromatize any how, but the testosterone it converts into does) as well as from becoming dht.

without the 4chloro group you'd just have 17a methyl 4-androstenediol, which would be a ph to methyl testosterone.

stacking a non aromatzable steroid, with an aromatizable one will have benifits over running either solo. are there better stacking option for each? yep. but they should work.

 

[hungryH]

I don't really see how the structure of m1,4add and h-drol are similar. It is well known that m-lmg is an ethyl and the hepatoxicity is not as bad. In any case, I would be taking livercare in addition to my cycle assist starting day one of m1,4add or m-lmg. It seems that adding in m1,4add would make my cycle more strength and size oriented...but the m-lmg would make it more recovery and size oriented.

Basically h-drol is M14ADD with a chlorine atom attached at the 4-position. This 4-chloro group effectively prevents both aromatisation (conversion of the compound to estrogen) and 5-a reduction (conversion to a DHT-based steroid), meaning that gynecomastia and androgenic effects like hair loss are more of a concern, and water retention is likely to occur.

 

[hungryH]

m14add is not similar to hdrol- wow hdrol is similar to promagnon-25 or pmag as it is more widely known-if you look at the compound of m14 and hdrol- nothing alike-research

shut up

 

[BigFatPanda]

funny you mention that, as I had addressed that issue in a m14add +pmag thread.

but anyhow, the 4chloro group does prevent aromatization, but as well prevents it from interacting with the 5a reductase enzyme.

when you take 1,4-andro, and it interacts with 5a reductase, it becomes 1-5a andro.

or better, 1-androstenediol= 1-dht=1-testosterone.

so just using an ai with m14add would prevent it from aromatizing, but it would have the possibility of becoming a more potent androgen as well, which the 4chloro in hd prevents this from happening.

pmag is 4chloro 17a methyl 4-androstenediol, basically more similar to clostebol, or methyl clostebol.

the 4 chloro group prevents the 4-androstenediol from aromatizing (which 4-androstenediol doesn't aromatize any how, but the testosterone it converts into does) as well as from becoming dht.

without the 4chloro group you'd just have 17a methyl 4-androstenediol, which would be a ph to methyl testosterone.

stacking a non aromatzable steroid, with an aromatizable one will have benifits over running either solo. are there better stacking option for each? yep. but they should work.

Wow. Ok, i think i follow most of that. The one place you lost me was this 5a reductase enzyme...the rest makes sense.

So if there are better stacking options what would you recommend to stack with m14.

(also, i got a pdf of anabolics 9th ed. So ill be reading that)

 

[hungryH]

okay, It is time for jbry's class on prohormones/gray market steroids.

Halodrol:
4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3b,17b-diol<-steroid

M14add:
17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3b,17b-diol<--steroid

Boldione:
androst-1,4-diene-3b,17b-dione<-pro hormone

as you can see here, all of these are pro hormones to a form of boldenone.

halodrol is methylated boldiol with a 4chloro group attached, which prevents it from aromatizing, as well as interacting with the 5a reductase enzyme.

methylated boldiol is a bold ph with a methyl group. the methyl group makes the compound more orally available, as well as gives it it's own properties, needing no conversion. how it interacts with the ar I dont believe is known though.
-----------------------

max lmg becomes 13b-ethyl-norandrostenedione in the stomach, and then can be converted into 13b-ethyl-nortestosterone.

methylated steroids, and ethylated steroids, are all mostly 17alpha alkalyated (17aa) this is a 17beta alkalyted (17b a).

hepatotoxicity is still a possibility, and cycle length should be kept to 6-8 weeks max.

max lmg is an androgen, it has stronger progestin receptor activity than deca, and as well has minor aromatization into estrogen.

its good know somebody on this board know what they are talking about.

 

[schwellington]

okay, It is time for jbry's class on prohormones/gray market steroids.

Halodrol:
4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3b,17b-diol<-steroid

M14add:
17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3b,17b-diol<--steroid

Boldione:
androst-1,4-diene-3b,17b-dione<-pro hormone

as you can see here, all of these are pro hormones to a form of boldenone.

halodrol is methylated boldiol with a 4chloro group attached, which prevents it from aromatizing, as well as interacting with the 5a reductase enzyme.

methylated boldiol is a bold ph with a methyl group. the methyl group makes the compound more orally available, as well as gives it it's own properties, needing no conversion. how it interacts with the ar I dont believe is known though.
-----------------------

max lmg becomes 13b-ethyl-norandrostenedione in the stomach, and then can be converted into 13b-ethyl-nortestosterone.

methylated steroids, and ethylated steroids, are all mostly 17alpha alkalyated (17aa) this is a 17beta alkalyted (17b a).

hepatotoxicity is still a possibility, and cycle length should be kept to 6-8 weeks max.

max lmg is an androgen, it has stronger progestin receptor activity than deca, and as well has minor aromatization into estrogen.

my mn14add does not have the same chemical make up as you stated above sir mine is: Methyl-1,4-androstenediol at 30 mgs


perhaps this is another way of writing it as in the a and b versions of superdrol- but it is drastically different than the above stated compound

 

[hungryH]

my mn14add does not have the same chemical make up as you stated above sir mine is: Methyl-1,4-androstenediol at 30 mgs


perhaps this is another way of writing it as in the a and b versions of superdrol- but it is drastically different than the above stated compound

to answer the question in the neg you sent me:

instead of telling me to shut up- why dont you correct me civilly like jbry did?

Because you told me to "research", when ironically it is very obvious that you are clueless on the subject. You don't even look like you lift, let alone take steroids.

 

[BigFatPanda]

to answer the question in the neg you sent me:

instead of telling me to shut up- why dont you correct me civilly like jbry did?

Because you told me to "research", when ironically it is very obvious that you are clueless on the subject. You don't even look like you lift, let alone take steroids.

All right guys... There's no need to be catty. We're not girls. We're steroid taking guys after all. Aggression is a side effect. Let's use it in the gym.

 

[jbryand101b]

my mn14add does not have the same chemical make up as you stated above sir mine is: Methyl-1,4-androstenediol at 30 mgs


perhaps this is another way of writing it as in the a and b versions of superdrol- but it is drastically different than the above stated compound

na, just different words for the same thing. like another language.

17a-methyl-1,4-androstadiene-3b,17b-diol
17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3b,17b-diol
1,4-Methylandrostenediol

you can switch it all around, write it, but all of this ^ means the same thing when written correctly.

and writing the a isomer of sd is a different word than the b isomer. they look similar, but are different, which is why it isn't okay to write it that way, it makes it a completely different substance.

just like if I made it 17a methyl-1,5-androstenediol. this would become a direct methylated prohormone to methyl 1-testosterone, and no longer be the test derivative (4andro), a completely diff steroid we can all agree. methyl 1-test is way different than dianabol.

panda, when testosterone (indicated with the 4) interacts with 5a reductase enzyme, it becomes 5a reduced, and is converted into dehydrotestosterone, aka, dht. 1-testosterone is 1-dht.

 

[schwellington]

soooo- why is m14add such a more potent bulker that hdrol? I guess the little switch in the nomenclature makes a big difference?

 

[jason79]

Ok, this is actually pretty interesting. At the moment, I can't see any reason how you would be wrong.

So, using that same logic. If one would be taking M1,4 with an AI, disabling its aromatizing properties, wouldn't that be the same thing as taking H-Drol?

No, it wouldn't. The 4-chloro changes the properties of h-drol relative to m1,4ADD in more ways than just making it a poor substrate for aromatase and 5b-reductase. It changes its affinity for the androgen receptor for one (most likely weaker). It also changes the way that the steroid is metabolized, which might change the half-life of h-drol (PH and active) relative to m1,4ADD.

perhaps this is another way of writing it as in the a and b versions of superdrol- but it is drastically different than the above stated compound

The whole 5b SD thing is just a rumor that stemmed from a nomenclature typo. Basically a company released a SD clone and mistakenly indicated the 5b isomer nomencalture on the bottle. Subsequently, some clones that came out copied the incorrect nomenclature, perpetuating the error. In reality they never intended to sell a 5b isomer. It would be almost completely inactive, raws probably aren't readily available, and in effect it would be pointless to sell.

but anyhow, the 4chloro group does prevent aromatization, but as well prevents it from interacting with the 5a reductase enzyme.

when you take 1,4-andro, and it interacts with 5a reductase, it becomes 1-5a andro.

or better, 1-androstenediol= 1-dht=1-testosterone.

so just using an ai with m14add would prevent it from aromatizing, but it would have the possibility of becoming a more potent androgen as well, which the 4chloro in hd prevents this from happening.

This is incorrect. The 1,4 dienes (most common are eq and dbol) aren't 5a reduced to any perceptible degree. Instead they're 5b reduced, which renders the much weaker, if not completely inactive 5b isomer. The 5b isomer has a three dimensional structure that's different in important ways from the 5a isomer. This structural difference results in the 5b isomer having little or no androgenic or anabolic activity in the body.

It's worth noting however that the 4-chloro of h-drol differentiates it from m1,4add in other important ways that can account for the difference in effects. See the beginning of this post for a couple I can think off of the top of my head.

 

[jbryand101b]

references?

Llewellyn & other experts on the subject seem to believe different. I've never seen anyone state bold doesn't interact with the 5a reductase. I've only seen known experts state it interacts with 5a and becomes a more potent androgen. just not in large amounts.

quoted from "anabolics 9th edition"

'Note that while boldenone does reduce to a more potent androgen (dihydroboldenone) via the 5-alpha reductase enzyme in androgen-responsive target tissues such as the skin, scalp, and prostate, its affinity to do so in the human body is extremely low.(524) The relative androgenicity of boldenone is, therefore, not significantly affected by finasteride or dutasteride.'

I could be wrong, I'm no expert. Bill could be mistaken as well. but If I had some references to back up your claims, I would love them so I could discuss this with him, and other such as seth roberts, and patrick arnold.

 

[jason79]

references?

Llewellyn & other experts on the subject seem to believe different. I've never seen anyone state bold doesn't interact with the 5a reductase. I've only seen known experts state it interacts with 5a and becomes a more potent androgen. just not in large amounts.

quoted from "anabolics 9th edition"

'Note that while boldenone does reduce to a more potent androgen (dihydroboldenone) via the 5-alpha reductase enzyme in androgen-responsive target tissues such as the skin, scalp, and prostate, its affinity to do so in the human body is extremely low.(524) The relative androgenicity of boldenone is, therefore, not significantly affected by finasteride or dutasteride.'
I could be wrong, I'm no expert. Bill could be mistaken as well. but If I had some references to back up your claims, I would love them so I could discuss this with him, and other such as seth roberts, and patrick arnold.

See the bolded above. This makes my point, albeit in a clumsy fashion. IOW, he's saying that in theory boldenone can be 5a reduced, but in the body it isn't to any observable degree and certainly not to the point to where it would be physiologically relevant.

Here's an excerpt from a review on AAS metabolization. The bolded statement describes how the C4 double bond is reduced in boldenone. I'm not going to post more references because this is pretty well established stuff. If you're interested in reading more about it, do a search and you'll find more literature on this.

The excerpt is from the review: Metabolism of Anabolic androgenic Steroids Clinical Chemistry 42:7 pp 1001-1020 (1996)

BOLDENONE
Boldenone was synthesized in 1956 by Meystre et al. [13]. Its
metabolism was investigated by Galletti and Gardi [27] in 1971.
Donike and I in 1992 published a GC-MS method for screening
and identification of boldenone metabolites excreted in human
urine [28]. The main metabolic routes in boldenone metabolism
are shown in Fig. 11. Boldenone itself is excreted as a 17(3-
conjugate, presumably as a I 7/3-glucuronide because of its
specific hydrolysis with (3-glucuronidase. The reduction of the
C-4,5-double bond is stereospecific and yields the 5B-configuration.
No 5a-metabolite is detected.