best mass building cycle with OTC PCT?

[srsrob8]

I am currently running 50mg/H-Drol and 225 mg 11 Sterone as a first cycle (recomp).

My 2nd cycle will be a bulking one, and start in October/November. I don't have access to Nolvadex, Clomid or anything non-OTC (which may change by October, but I am not counting on it), so I probably have to avoid Superdrol or anything that harsh (not that I want anything that harsh anyway).

What is the best mass builder cycle that can be used with OTC PCT?

[hmower]

Dude u clearly have access to the internet. Thats all u need to find and get a serm. I could point u to many legit sites

[srsrob8]

Mostly looking for advice on what to cycle right now. Even if I get a Serm (Nolva or Clomid - I can get OTC) I want something on the mild side. I see a lot of posts on h-drol and other weaker stuff, and a lot of superdrol posts. I don't see much middle ground.

[jdj16]

dude you should probably use a serm for just about everything. the only ph that i've ever seen anyone say that you could get by with an otc pct is hdrol.

as far as being in the middle...maybe something like epi?

[schwellington]

this is a huge debate amongst people on the board

personally I am in pct right now with a SERM recovering from my second cycle


I will never cycle without them again
The first cycle I did was epistane

I used an otc pct and was fine- I even had bloodwork done


Do I reccomend it? No

Because what happens when you run a steroid is the HPTA shuts down- this is what produces testosterone and sexual hormones


OTC pct products do not i repeat DO NOT restart the hpta- only a serm

[Jasen]

m1t

[schwellington]

m1t

DO NOT TAKE THIS WITHOUT A SERM



Lol jasen wtf!

[Liftingstud]

this is a huge debate amongst people on the board

personally I am in pct right now with a SERM recovering from my second cycle


I will never cycle without them again
The first cycle I did was epistane

I used an otc pct and was fine- I even had bloodwork done


Do I reccomend it? No

Because what happens when you run a steroid is the HPTA shuts down- this is what produces testosterone and sexual hormones


OTC pct products do not i repeat DO NOT restart the hpta- only a serm

Kind of a false statement about serms. Clomid does have some influence on LH but they don't restrart you. Your body naturally will restart production. You use the serm to block any neg effects from estro during this time. Like I said it's your body that naturally starts up test production again once the exogenous steroid has been removed.

[MikeGfilms]

Kind of a false statement about serms. Clomid does have some influence on LH but they don't restrart you. Your body naturally will restart production. You use the serm to block any neg effects from estro during this time. Like I said it's your body that naturally starts up test production again once the exogenous steroid has been removed.

Hmm im sch's side for this one. Clomid will help you jump start your HPTA and once it is restarted the clomid will work to rise the levels as much as it can trying to get your levels back to normal. Hell ive read posts of peoples Endos prescribing them clomid and with bloodwork, showing that it works pretty damn good actually.

[schwellington]

Kind of a false statement about serms. Clomid does have some influence on LH but they don't restrart you. Your body naturally will restart production. You use the serm to block any neg effects from estro during this time. Like I said it's your body that naturally starts up test production again once the exogenous steroid has been removed.

actually no- clomid has been proven to stimulate the HPTA- if what ur saying is true- why would we use serms and not just AI?


When the body shutsdown the feedback loop from the brain to the HPTA stops telling the testes to produce test- as there is an exogenous form of testosterone in the body (the steroid)- when that form is gone, the hpta still hasnt recieved the messege from the brain to restart- clomid is not the only thing that will stimulate the HPTA but its one of the few- clomid is fertility medication as well- it has GREAT effects on LH

[phatmike0704]

either way, ur messing with a PH. dont matter if its the weakest or strongest one, u need a serm. just google it or ask someone on the board. i dont get gains at all from hdrol, only the side effects. bro, better safe then sorry

[UnrealMachine]

everybody is right. the body does restart itself naturally, however it does so very slow, clomid makes it happen much faster.

some people, after suppressive cycles, they body doesn't restart on its own, this is just some people, and usually after longer or suppressive cycles. But remember back in the day there was no PCT. Your body should start on its own, but it may take a while, or not go to completion and leave you with low test.

The words NEED and NECESSARY are always poor words for a PCT. You most certainly can run SD with an OTC pct... you'd be stupid not to realize that thousands of people have done it just fine. It's just riskier. If you have problems recovering then you might get ****ed. I always seem to recover easy, I bet I could do an OTC pct no problem. But even if i could, doesn't mean I want to. I'd rather use clomid and come out of PCT with super high test. Is it worth the 15$ or so of clomid I use? **** yeah.

[RAHHH]

Dude u clearly have access to the internet. Thats all u need to find and get a serm. I could point u to many legit sites

Fukin EXACLY!

[ZamaMan]

I would say he best anabolic stack you could use for mass with an OTC would be
1-Tuna stacked with 100 mg of chicken. Run carbs the whole time as a support.

You should come out of that stack recovered just fine.



Seriously if your gonna run epi, pmag, m14add or whatever get a serm just in case. Just google research chemicals tamoxifen there legal to buy in the states.

[RickRock13]

Everyone on here is right. A SERM is best, however, if you want a decent bulk go with pmag. Probably the best that you can possibly get away with OTC IMO. Its chemical structure is remarkably similiar to hdrol, but suited more for a bulk. Definetely contemplate the SERM. Best PCT, hands down.

[Jasen]

M1t

[Jasen]

I hear if you take pure grapefruit juice with m1t it helps against shut down? And sides lol is this true

[schwellington]

I hear if you take pure grapefruit juice with m1t it helps against shut down? And sides lol is this true

do it and let us know!





im assuming u know it increases oral bioavailbiltiy

[jbryand101b]

I'm going to post this because the bro science is running strong in this thread on pct.

everyone is wrong about hpta function on steroids.

when one is "shut down" hpta function has not stopped. it adjust to the changes, and lessens out put of & increases out put of other hormones.

i'll go ahead and say this now, even on deca @ 600mg for 12 weeks the body is still producing testosterone, and lh. in very low amounts, but still making it.

where the problems come in is the testes.

due to the lowered production of lh, the testes become desensitized to the effects of lh.

this is why some people use hcg on cycle, to try to prevent this de sensitization.

once the body notices steroid hormones are low, it begins producing it's normal lh again.

but unfortunately for you, this is not enough to get the testes back to producing test again. they've become de sensitized to it's effects.

and this is also why steroid users use hcg to shock the testes back into production of testosterone.

using hcg for the first 2 weeks, and then compounds that do have an effect on lh production, such as clomid/nolva are what many hrt doctors prescibe to kick start test production.

I know letrozole (ai) has been shown to increase lh production. but I believe a.i. work via another means to increase production of test. negative feedback. less estrogen= more test & and aromatase to make estrogen.

serms allow you body to keep its estrogen, but prevents it from doing it's dirty work.

your body will most likely recover back to normal without a better pct program. but it is going to take longer.

if you did go with an otc pct, I'd recomend getting hcgenerate, & an ai like formestane, or 6 bromo, as well as sustain alpha.
d

[Killerkanadia]

hcgenerate any good? The profile doesn't look awful out standing. Not bad, but not the best.

HCGenerate:Supplement facts

Serving size: 5 capsules x 30 servings per container.

Fadogia Agrestis.................1000

Fenugreek PE (50% testofen).....1000

3,4 Divanillyltetrahydrofuran....5 00

Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestre: 500mg

Vitamin E.......................200

LJ:100........................ ..100

Zinc.......................... ..7mg