best mass building cycle with OTC PCT?

  1. best mass building cycle with OTC PCT?


    I am currently running 50mg/H-Drol and 225 mg 11 Sterone as a first cycle (recomp).

    My 2nd cycle will be a bulking one, and start in October/November. I don't have access to Nolvadex, Clomid or anything non-OTC (which may change by October, but I am not counting on it), so I probably have to avoid Superdrol or anything that harsh (not that I want anything that harsh anyway).

    What is the best mass builder cycle that can be used with OTC PCT?


  2. Dude u clearly have access to the internet. Thats all u need to find and get a serm. I could point u to many legit sites

  3. Mostly looking for advice on what to cycle right now. Even if I get a Serm (Nolva or Clomid - I can get OTC) I want something on the mild side. I see a lot of posts on h-drol and other weaker stuff, and a lot of superdrol posts. I don't see much middle ground.
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  4. dude you should probably use a serm for just about everything. the only ph that i've ever seen anyone say that you could get by with an otc pct is hdrol.

    as far as being in the middle...maybe something like epi?

  5. this is a huge debate amongst people on the board

    personally I am in pct right now with a SERM recovering from my second cycle


    I will never cycle without them again
    The first cycle I did was epistane

    I used an otc pct and was fine- I even had bloodwork done


    Do I reccomend it? No

    Because what happens when you run a steroid is the HPTA shuts down- this is what produces testosterone and sexual hormones


    OTC pct products do not i repeat DO NOT restart the hpta- only a serm
    Test e/dbol/epi/winnie
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/164764-schwellington-has-been.html

  6. m1t
    ~ IRON LIVER™________ *[It's just advice man, that's all it is! You can take or do whatever the FCUK you wanna do!]

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Jasen View Post
    m1t
    DO NOT TAKE THIS WITHOUT A SERM



    Lol jasen wtf!
    Test e/dbol/epi/winnie
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/164764-schwellington-has-been.html

  8. Quote Originally Posted by schwellington View Post
    this is a huge debate amongst people on the board

    personally I am in pct right now with a SERM recovering from my second cycle


    I will never cycle without them again
    The first cycle I did was epistane

    I used an otc pct and was fine- I even had bloodwork done


    Do I reccomend it? No

    Because what happens when you run a steroid is the HPTA shuts down- this is what produces testosterone and sexual hormones


    OTC pct products do not i repeat DO NOT restart the hpta- only a serm
    Kind of a false statement about serms. Clomid does have some influence on LH but they don't restrart you. Your body naturally will restart production. You use the serm to block any neg effects from estro during this time. Like I said it's your body that naturally starts up test production again once the exogenous steroid has been removed.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Liftingstud View Post
    Kind of a false statement about serms. Clomid does have some influence on LH but they don't restrart you. Your body naturally will restart production. You use the serm to block any neg effects from estro during this time. Like I said it's your body that naturally starts up test production again once the exogenous steroid has been removed.
    Hmm im sch's side for this one. Clomid will help you jump start your HPTA and once it is restarted the clomid will work to rise the levels as much as it can trying to get your levels back to normal. Hell ive read posts of peoples Endos prescribing them clomid and with bloodwork, showing that it works pretty damn good actually.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Liftingstud View Post
    Kind of a false statement about serms. Clomid does have some influence on LH but they don't restrart you. Your body naturally will restart production. You use the serm to block any neg effects from estro during this time. Like I said it's your body that naturally starts up test production again once the exogenous steroid has been removed.
    actually no- clomid has been proven to stimulate the HPTA- if what ur saying is true- why would we use serms and not just AI?


    When the body shutsdown the feedback loop from the brain to the HPTA stops telling the testes to produce test- as there is an exogenous form of testosterone in the body (the steroid)- when that form is gone, the hpta still hasnt recieved the messege from the brain to restart- clomid is not the only thing that will stimulate the HPTA but its one of the few- clomid is fertility medication as well- it has GREAT effects on LH
    Test e/dbol/epi/winnie
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/164764-schwellington-has-been.html

  11. either way, ur messing with a PH. dont matter if its the weakest or strongest one, u need a serm. just google it or ask someone on the board. i dont get gains at all from hdrol, only the side effects. bro, better safe then sorry

  12. everybody is right. the body does restart itself naturally, however it does so very slow, clomid makes it happen much faster.

    some people, after suppressive cycles, they body doesn't restart on its own, this is just some people, and usually after longer or suppressive cycles. But remember back in the day there was no PCT. Your body should start on its own, but it may take a while, or not go to completion and leave you with low test.

    The words NEED and NECESSARY are always poor words for a PCT. You most certainly can run SD with an OTC pct... you'd be stupid not to realize that thousands of people have done it just fine. It's just riskier. If you have problems recovering then you might get ****ed. I always seem to recover easy, I bet I could do an OTC pct no problem. But even if i could, doesn't mean I want to. I'd rather use clomid and come out of PCT with super high test. Is it worth the 15$ or so of clomid I use? **** yeah.
    Mostly answered PM's
    Don't post on my profile, I don't read that stuff, PM me instead
    <------ Hard to believe, but I wasn't on any anabolics in the avatar shot

  13. Quote Originally Posted by hmower View Post
    Dude u clearly have access to the internet. Thats all u need to find and get a serm. I could point u to many legit sites
    Fukin EXACLY!

  14. I would say he best anabolic stack you could use for mass with an OTC would be
    1-Tuna stacked with 100 mg of chicken. Run carbs the whole time as a support.

    You should come out of that stack recovered just fine.



    Seriously if your gonna run epi, pmag, m14add or whatever get a serm just in case. Just google research chemicals tamoxifen there legal to buy in the states.

  15. Everyone on here is right. A SERM is best, however, if you want a decent bulk go with pmag. Probably the best that you can possibly get away with OTC IMO. Its chemical structure is remarkably similiar to hdrol, but suited more for a bulk. Definetely contemplate the SERM. Best PCT, hands down.

  16. I hear if you take pure grapefruit juice with m1t it helps against shut down? And sides lol is this true

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Jasen View Post
    I hear if you take pure grapefruit juice with m1t it helps against shut down? And sides lol is this true
    do it and let us know!





    im assuming u know it increases oral bioavailbiltiy
    Test e/dbol/epi/winnie
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/164764-schwellington-has-been.html

  18. I'm going to post this because the bro science is running strong in this thread on pct.

    everyone is wrong about hpta function on steroids.

    when one is "shut down" hpta function has not stopped. it adjust to the changes, and lessens out put of & increases out put of other hormones.

    i'll go ahead and say this now, even on deca @ 600mg for 12 weeks the body is still producing testosterone, and lh. in very low amounts, but still making it.

    where the problems come in is the testes.

    due to the lowered production of lh, the testes become desensitized to the effects of lh.

    this is why some people use hcg on cycle, to try to prevent this de sensitization.

    once the body notices steroid hormones are low, it begins producing it's normal lh again.

    but unfortunately for you, this is not enough to get the testes back to producing test again. they've become de sensitized to it's effects.

    and this is also why steroid users use hcg to shock the testes back into production of testosterone.

    using hcg for the first 2 weeks, and then compounds that do have an effect on lh production, such as clomid/nolva are what many hrt doctors prescibe to kick start test production.

    I know letrozole (ai) has been shown to increase lh production. but I believe a.i. work via another means to increase production of test. negative feedback. less estrogen= more test & and aromatase to make estrogen.

    serms allow you body to keep its estrogen, but prevents it from doing it's dirty work.

    your body will most likely recover back to normal without a better pct program. but it is going to take longer.

    if you did go with an otc pct, I'd recomend getting hcgenerate, & an ai like formestane, or 6 bromo, as well as sustain alpha.
    d
    OLYMPUS UK REP
    30% OFF OLYMPUS UK USING JBUK30 GET SWOLE!

  19. hcgenerate any good? The profile doesn't look awful out standing. Not bad, but not the best.

    HCGenerate:Supplement facts

    Serving size: 5 capsules x 30 servings per container.

    Fadogia Agrestis.................1000

    Fenugreek PE (50% testofen).....1000

    3,4 Divanillyltetrahydrofuran....5 00

    Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestre: 500mg

    Vitamin E.......................200

    LJ:100........................ ..100

    Zinc.......................... ..7mg


  20. Quote Originally Posted by schwellington View Post
    do it and let us know!





    im assuming u know it increases oral bioavailbiltiy
    NAW BOSKI THATS A MYTH

    it help with liver healing on cycle

    (I AM JUST JOKING FOR ALL THE PPL WHO THINK I AM SERIOUS, NEVER MIX GRAPEFRUIT WITH AAS)
    ~ IRON LIVER™________ *[It's just advice man, that's all it is! You can take or do whatever the FCUK you wanna do!]

  21. Wow! This got way off track. For arguement sake - assume I have a SERM and go back to my original question - what is actually worth taking that gives better gains than h-drol and more managable sides than superdrol?

  22. Quote Originally Posted by srsrob8 View Post
    Wow! This got way off track. For arguement sake - assume I have a SERM and go back to my original question - what is actually worth taking that gives better gains than h-drol and more managable sides than superdrol?
    you act like there's 2 choices. how much research have you done... look at this thread, its stickied

    Designer Steroid/prohormone profiles

    maybe that will give you some ideas
    Mostly answered PM's
    Don't post on my profile, I don't read that stuff, PM me instead
    <------ Hard to believe, but I wasn't on any anabolics in the avatar shot

  23. Quote Originally Posted by srsrob8 View Post
    Wow! This got way off track. For arguement sake - assume I have a SERM and go back to my original question - what is actually worth taking that gives better gains than h-drol and more managable sides than superdrol?
    I'm betting it got off track because everyone here is tired of spoon feeding cycles to ppl that just joined a week ago and would rather talk about something of interest.

  24. you shouldn't take either. steroids shouldn't be used by retards.
    OLYMPUS UK REP
    30% OFF OLYMPUS UK USING JBUK30 GET SWOLE!

  25. Did you not read my post? If you took 5 min to search those hormones you'd know which were wet, which were dry, which are already active steroids.

    Those of yo saying he can use p mag safely with only OTC what is he gonna do if he starts getting gyno? Don't know about you but I'm not cool with having tits so i say only an idiot would cycle without a serm on hand.

  26. I thought this was a simple, legit question.

    Yes, I have read a lot of posts about a lot of substances - what passes for research here. Almost all of the bulking posts are on Superdrol, Dymethazine, Alpha 1 and clones and the few that sound halfway intelligent say it isn't good for people until they have experience with 3 or 4 cycles on something milder, but don't recommend anything specific.

    I don't care much about what CEL and the other manufacturers say about their own products, and don't care at all about people who read what manufacturers say and parrot it back or about people who flame newbies for asking questions about things that can kill them. I seriously doubt people doing this have enough time to workout and build any muscle at all.

    If you've had personal experience running a bulking cycle on something milder, I would appreciate details.
  

  
 

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