any suggestions, for not so hot bloodwork?

deadaim

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Blood work 1 month after PCT after taking hdrol for 5 weeks at 75mg, pct was nolva 20/20/10/10


LH 5.2 1.7-8.6
Testosterone Serum 275 280-800
Estradiol 30.5 7.6-42.6
FSH 1.4 1.5-12.4


Obviously disapointed... what should I do?

Have Clomid on hand and all sorts of shieet.

Patrick Arnold has theorized that this could be a case of my body taking longer to respond to my LH. Meaning everythings gravy but my test levels will just take some time to peak back up.
 

OnTheRoadTo

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Possibly true - it generally takes something like 4 weeks for the testes to start producing a lot of test even after they have regained their original size, if you look at studies where subjects recover naturally. I also no longer believe that 20/20/10/10 nolva is enough for recovery, maybe if stacked with an OTC PCT, but I have lost a lot of faith in those as well.

HDrol also was quite suppressive for me. I'll be getting blood work after my PCT from the natadrol I'm currently on.
 
gamer2be08

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Blood work 1 month after PCT after taking hdrol for 5 weeks at 75mg, pct was nolva 20/20/10/10


LH 5.2 1.7-8.6
Testosterone Serum 275 280-800
Estradiol 30.5 7.6-42.6
FSH 1.4 1.5-12.4


Obviously disapointed... what should I do?

Have Clomid on hand and all sorts of shieet.

Patrick Arnold has theorized that this could be a case of my body taking longer to respond to my LH. Meaning everythings gravy but my test levels will just take some time to peak back up.
May wanna jump on a t-booster for the meantime, see if it speeds up the process.
 
UnrealMachine

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it is good that you get to see that a low-dosed nolva pct is not very effective... CLOMID next time man. I bet if you do a few weeks of clomid right now it'll fix your numbers right up.
 
gamer2be08

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it is good that you get to see that a low-dosed nolva pct is not very effective... CLOMID next time man. I bet if you do a few weeks of clomid right now it'll fix your numbers right up.
Yup, difference is night and day with the 2 SERMs..
 

wedlund6

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i would go otc
t booster
also
6-bromo or resveratrol 4 to 6 weeks
do you have eny sides loss libido sensative puffy nipps
 
SouthernCharm

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What about using them both? You guys have me worried cuz PCT is coming up in two weeks and now I'm thinking the Nolva won't cut it... Better place an order lol

Dead Aim did you try using something like DAA? I would run clomid for four weeks and on the 4th week start the 12 day DAA dosing. Couldn't hurt right?
 

deadaim

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Yeah Im jumping on the clomid 50/50/25/25 cuz its lying around. Excited for huge loads....

Was wondering why I was getting acne and felt lethargic...
 
UnrealMachine

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acne could be a sign of testosterone coming back from even lower levels. For me acne/oily face happens when test is elevated, but I also seem to get acne when my test is in flux, so you theorized you might already be moving back up... The lethargy though yes def. low test symptom.
 
SouthernCharm

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acne could be a sign of testosterone coming back from even lower levels. For me acne/oily face happens when test is elevated, but I also seem to get acne when my test is in flux, so you theorized you might already be moving back up... The lethargy though yes def. low test symptom.
About the only thing I got from t boosters was Acne, so I went off of that to theorize that they did work somewhat.. But I agree with Unreal Machine about the oily face.. I got my test levels checked back the last time I got a physical... And I had acne like a mf and my test levels were sky high
 

deadaim

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High estrogen can cause acne as well, or proportionally high estrogen, womens acne gets better when they regulate their estrogen with birth control ya know.

This blows ****hole, I love reasons to dog on otc pct for hdrol, but I didnt want to use my own bloodwork as an example...

DAA shouldnt be necessary, my LH is fine, going to use clomid to raise my fsh and test.
 
SouthernCharm

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High estrogen can cause acne as well, or proportionally high estrogen, womens acne gets better when they regulate their estrogen with birth control ya know.

This blows ****hole, I love reasons to dog on otc pct for hdrol, but I didnt want to use my own bloodwork as an example...

DAA shouldnt be necessary, my LH is fine, going to use clomid to raise my fsh and test.
You know what dead aim you always got some good stuff to say, but in general when you can back something with your own PERSONAL experience it makes people listen even more. Im sure you will be fine in a few weeks, but everything we do with our bodies is a learning experience imo. A lot more than we can learn from reading what has been written
 
HumpTheCook

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i wouldnt be shocked if the antibiotics you've on for the past month have negatively effected your test levels.
 

deadaim

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LOL Im gunna turn into hump and imply that everyones comment in my thread is them wanting to blow me ;).

anyone run clomid in here that can offer some insight? Im curious if I will be able to feel a difference a few weeks into it, or if I will have to wait 2 months for bloodwork to know if anything is going on.
 
CCV3

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Nolva isn't really PCT. You can take it whenever you want.
You pretty much did absolutely nothing to get your natural test going again.
 

deadaim

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Nolva isn't really PCT. You can take it whenever you want.
You pretty much did absolutely nothing to get your natural test going again.
Yeah I feel like im right around where I should be with no PCT.


Id say the nolva was bunk, but I did get side effects from it...

Glad my clomid is prescription.
 
HumpTheCook

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Nolva isn't really PCT. You can take it whenever you want.
You pretty much did absolutely nothing to get your natural test going again.
this is just simply incorrect.

Nolva has been proven to increase test levels nearly 150% of baseline in just 10days and secondly increase pituitary sensitivity to GnRH
 
nosnmiveins

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Yeah I feel like im right around where I should be with no PCT.


Id say the nolva was bunk, but I did get side effects from it...

Glad my clomid is prescription.
what "sides" did u get?

nolva def sounds like it was garbage
 

deadaim

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Dizzyness, and a few other ones. Although could have just been symptoms of low T
 
nosnmiveins

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Dizzyness, and a few other ones. Although could have just been symptoms of low T
id bet 99.999% of the "sides" were from bunk nolva....meaing a lack of a proper PCT.

there shouldnt be any sides directly relating to nolva
 
MikeGfilms

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Yeah I feel like im right around where I should be with no PCT.


Id say the nolva was bunk, but I did get side effects from it...

Glad my clomid is prescription.
Im on the same boat with you man. i get my other test results back next week from LabCorp. Seems like the Nolva did jack sh!t for me, but i know it was legit (reputable site and cleared gyno up).
 

deadaim

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Nolvadex has plenty of side effects associated with it... its not gummi bears.

wish me luck on the clomid mother ****ers
 
HumpTheCook

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like what?
nausea, vomiting, hot flashes, numbness, and blurred vision can occur...though i think these are extremely rare and its much mor elikely the sides were from either a) bunk nolva therefore low T or b) a negative interaction between prescription meds
 
Moeller

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Dizzyness, and a few other ones. Although could have just been symptoms of low T
Speaking of sides, have you or anyone else here experienced localized hives while taking nolva? Just curious, because there I may be having a reaction on my shins.
 
Dragon13

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Echoing what others have said: nolva was either crap or badly underdosed. I assume it was research.

Do you have baseline test #s?
 
nosnmiveins

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nausea, vomiting, hot flashes, numbness, and blurred vision can occur...though i think these are extremely rare and its much mor elikely the sides were from either a) bunk nolva therefore low T or b) a negative interaction between prescription meds
well duh, i could have googled it for the actual sides of the drug. but ive never heard of anyone actually having sides while running nolva other than libido and acne which is also associated with low test.
 

deadaim

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I do not, but i wasnt experiencing any lower testosterone symptoms prior to my cycle.

My LH looks fine, glad my balls are ok ;). It was research grade bunk... lol
 
schwellington

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let us know bud how the clomid works- but its human grade so u should be g2g


Im on human grade atm sooooo GOOD LUCK!
 
schwellington

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Ehh Good actually on my last pct i did an otc since it was a short epi cycle- I had the lethargy you described BAD last pct for about a week


This time around No lethargy at all- mood is good and I am slowly becoming interested in the opposite sex:) kept all gains as well


Successful
 
schwellington

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he quit after two days haha
huh? whered u get that info sir?


Im still on it lol

I quit mdrol after like 4 thats all i know off......


?????? HUMP STOP SLANDERING ME!!!!
 
UnrealMachine

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I've never noticed anything from nolva, no sides, no signs of high testosterone. In my nolva-only PCTs i recovered but never really felt any different.

When i started clomid PCTs i always noticed high testosterone... IMO nolva is best utilized to control estrogen and prevent rebound gyno and clomid is best utilized to get natural testosterone going. A stack of the two is pretty ideal.
 
schwellington

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Without a doubt using the stack on my m14add/pmag pct cycle- will at least have nolva on hand to deal with any possible gyno
 
schwellington

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HumpTheCook

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glad to see this didnt get out of hand fast lol.

Unreal you really think nolva and clomid best serve two totally different purposes? my understanding of the two compunds is that they both fall under the same category of anti- estrogens belonging to the same family of triphenylethylene compounds.

i think alot of the difference in results ive been seeing lately is that 20mg of nolva is more or less equal to 50mg of clomid and most seem to start clomid at doses of 100mg or higher and few start nolva higher than 20mg.
 
gamer2be08

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glad to see this didnt get out of hand fast lol.

Unreal you really think nolva and clomid best serve two totally different purposes? my understanding of the two compunds is that they both fall under the same category of anti- estrogens belonging to the same family of triphenylethylene compounds.

i think alot of the difference in results ive been seeing lately is that 20mg of nolva is more or less equal to 50mg of clomid and most seem to start clomid at doses of 100mg or higher and few start nolva higher than 20mg.
Im gonna have to agree with Unreal on this one. Try a nolva/clomid PCT and you will feel a huge difference.
 

deadaim

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Nolva and Clomid are used for the same thing but actually have very different action mechanisms, which is why its not retarded to use both at the same time ;)
 
UnrealMachine

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glad to see this didnt get out of hand fast lol.

Unreal you really think nolva and clomid best serve two totally different purposes? my understanding of the two compunds is that they both fall under the same category of anti- estrogens belonging to the same family of triphenylethylene compounds.

i think alot of the difference in results ive been seeing lately is that 20mg of nolva is more or less equal to 50mg of clomid and most seem to start clomid at doses of 100mg or higher and few start nolva higher than 20mg.
Yeah totally. For some reason although they are both SERMs they seem to have pretty different functions. For example rebound gyno simply should not happen when on nolva because it should be blocking Estrogen receptors... clomid SHOULD be doing the same thing but that doesn't happen, case in point my friend was PCTing with clomid and had a huge surge of test levels, which corresponded to an increase in estrogen and he started getting nipple sensitivity.

In practice, clomid raises testosterone better than nolva, but nolva is better for estrogen control.

I've never done this but I think a great PCT would be very high dosed clomid that quickly tapers down and a modest dose of nolva alongside for estro control.

I'm still experimenting... my next PCT i'm going to try huge doses of clomid and see what happens.
 
gamer2be08

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Yeah totally. For some reason although they are both SERMs they seem to have pretty different functions. For example rebound gyno simply should not happen when on nolva because it should be blocking Estrogen receptors... clomid SHOULD be doing the same thing but that doesn't happen, case in point my friend was PCTing with clomid and had a huge surge of test levels, which corresponded to an increase in estrogen and he started getting nipple sensitivity.

In practice, clomid raises testosterone better than nolva, but nolva is better for estrogen control.

I've never done this but I think a great PCT would be very high dosed clomid that quickly tapers down and a modest dose of nolva alongside for estro control.

I'm still experimenting... my next PCT i'm going to try huge doses of clomid and see what happens.

High clomid= you will cry when you get mad, confused or upset lol..
 
CCV3

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this is just simply incorrect.

Nolva has been proven to increase test levels nearly 150% of baseline in just 10days and secondly increase pituitary sensitivity to GnRH
I've seen the same 150% thing you mentioned, I just dont buy it.
My baseline is 660. So if I take Nolva in itself it will jump to 990?
Doubtful. .

As you know its primary purpose is to block estrogen.
Just look at his blood work...his test levels are of a senior citizen. Not good at all.

He can take another 4 weeks of nolva and any increase would more than likely due to his body naturally coming back. He could not take nolva and it would come back at the same rate.

What he needs is a serious kick start.
 
HumpTheCook

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Yeah totally. For some reason although they are both SERMs they seem to have pretty different functions. For example rebound gyno simply should not happen when on nolva because it should be blocking Estrogen receptors... clomid SHOULD be doing the same thing but that doesn't happen, case in point my friend was PCTing with clomid and had a huge surge of test levels, which corresponded to an increase in estrogen and he started getting nipple sensitivity.

In practice, clomid raises testosterone better than nolva, but nolva is better for estrogen control.

I've never done this but I think a great PCT would be very high dosed clomid that quickly tapers down and a modest dose of nolva alongside for estro control.

I'm still experimenting... my next PCT i'm going to try huge doses of clomid and see what happens.
i have been seeing the same trend that you speak of in practice, atleast on this board... i was just hoping for some medical explanation to explain the phenomenon.

I've seen the same 150% thing you mentioned, I just dont buy it.
My baseline is 660. So if I take Nolva in itself it will jump to 990?
Doubtful. .

As you know its primary purpose is to block estrogen.
Just look at his blood work...his test levels are of a senior citizen. Not good at all.

He can take another 4 weeks of nolva and any increase would more than likely due to his body naturally coming back. He could not take nolva and it would come back at the same rate.

What he needs is a serious kick start.
i think its pretty safe to say his nolva is / was bunk.
 
schwellington

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LOL no but I was interested in Gamer- who is an IT



So wait in theory Nolva will prevent the rebound gyno from a surge in estorgen levels and clomid works more effectivly in the restarting of the htpa


Well Fuk I was on an epi/11 oxo niether of which armoatase but as we all know when test levels come back up so do estro levels- I shouldnt use an ai like inhibit e right? Estro is good for the body it just needs to be regulated if I am correct- and if I am correct wtf should I do If I get sensitive nipples?:shocked1:
 

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