Magazine may print my question to HMGear about Oxanavar

[swany]

Hello, Brian:

My name is Author L. Rea and your e-mail was forwarded to me from Sam at HM Gear. I have columns in MD and a few other mags and wrote the books Chemical Muscle Enhancement, Building The Perfect Beast and a few others you may have heard of somewhere in your applaudable quest for knowledge.

Please forgive me if I am being intrusive, but I was asked to be of whatever help here I can. I have heard of the unfortunate incidents with Bruce and Rich. I can say that I find it very unlikely that either would intentionally do anything of this nature...though sadly I must admit that many others have and will with no regard for those whom simply want what the pay for.

I did the original product designs for HM Gear a year ago and arranged for the production to be done by a large compounding pharmacy. Naturally they did/do Cof A's to validate the legitimacy of the raws. (Required legally) But I have to admit that I do understand your concern.

The reason I am writing you is pretty simple: I was asked to act as the independent on this and as such "may" use your question in my MD column in the next few months if I opt to do so. I will also allow HM Gear to reprint the findings on their site. (They have agreed to reprint in total NO MATTER WHAT THE RESULTS ARE!) Do you mind if I reprint your question if so? (Since you did not send it to me I feel asking is necessary)

Best wishes;
ALR

-----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Swanson [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 10:50 AM
> To: 'Sam Phillips'
> Subject: RE: H. M. Gear - Oxanavar>
> I believe you guys would never intentionally sell something else instead
> of what claimed but now adays customers are really looking for it. When
> you say a Pharma company, I assume you mean a registered pharmaceutical
> company? I heard that most get their products from china and those
> companies over there have been distributing mislabeled products because
> a similar product can look almost identical if not tested properly
> (methyl-nandrolone) Within a week or so a few companies are coming out
> with the same product as yours and they have already proven 99% potency.
> I really think it would best serve you to get yours tested because many
> people are holding back on purchasing anything until these confirmed
> products are out this week.
>
> When Bruce Kneller introduced M-dien, it failed lab tests by Patrick
> Arnold.... He would never have done it on purpose but it happened
> because most suppliers don't know how to test for true potency. Many
> people bought Gaspari m-dien and got burned... Most of the people
> interested in M40hn know of this and want potency confirmed before
> risking any purchases.



Can you guys give me some advice here?... I don't know if I had all my facts right in my email I sent. I don't want someone or some company jumping all over me here because I was wrong.

Have you guys heard of this guy before?

What would you do?

 

[willieman]

Dude, this is sweet, I am not sure about the story, but everybody is making a real effort in the community to make sure we keep things from the supp companies on the up and up....very nice..

Hello, Brian:

My name is Author L. Rea and your e-mail was forwarded to me from Sam at HM Gear. I have columns in MD and a few other mags and wrote the books Chemical Muscle Enhancement, Building The Perfect Beast and a few others you may have heard of somewhere in your applaudable quest for knowledge.

Please forgive me if I am being intrusive, but I was asked to be of whatever help here I can. I have heard of the unfortunate incidents with Bruce and Rich. I can say that I find it very unlikely that either would intentionally do anything of this nature...though sadly I must admit that many others have and will with no regard for those whom simply want what the pay for.

I did the original product designs for HM Gear a year ago and arranged for the production to be done by a large compounding pharmacy. Naturally they did/do Cof A's to validate the legitimacy of the raws. (Required legally) But I have to admit that I do understand your concern.

The reason I am writing you is pretty simple: I was asked to act as the independent on this and as such "may" use your question in my MD column in the next few months if I opt to do so. I will also allow HM Gear to reprint the findings on their site. (They have agreed to reprint in total NO MATTER WHAT THE RESULTS ARE!) Do you mind if I reprint your question if so? (Since you did not send it to me I feel asking is necessary)

Best wishes;
ALR

-----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Swanson [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 10:50 AM
> To: 'Sam Phillips'
> Subject: RE: H. M. Gear - Oxanavar>
> I believe you guys would never intentionally sell something else instead
> of what claimed but now adays customers are really looking for it. When
> you say a Pharma company, I assume you mean a registered pharmaceutical
> company? I heard that most get their products from china and those
> companies over there have been distributing mislabeled products because
> a similar product can look almost identical if not tested properly
> (methyl-nandrolone) Within a week or so a few companies are coming out
> with the same product as yours and they have already proven 99% potency.
> I really think it would best serve you to get yours tested because many
> people are holding back on purchasing anything until these confirmed
> products are out this week.
>
> When Bruce Kneller introduced M-dien, it failed lab tests by Patrick
> Arnold.... He would never have done it on purpose but it happened
> because most suppliers don't know how to test for true potency. Many
> people bought Gaspari m-dien and got burned... Most of the people
> interested in M40hn know of this and want potency confirmed before
> risking any purchases.



Can you guys give me some advice here?... I don't know if I had all my facts right in my email I sent. I don't want someone or some company jumping all over me here because I was wrong.

Have you guys heard of this guy before?

What would you do?

 

[Sldge]

here is my question, if he is the designer and has a financial stake in this company how is he the independant?

but finally someone answered an email without just side talk.

although he still has not shown the CoA, why would they need to test it again if they already have?

 

[jminis]

Author L Rea is a smart ass bro and his books and protocols are second to none. He works with many many pro's. He is without a doubt a top mind in the field. Later J

 

[lifted]

All I wanna know is if the doseages recomended are safe. Anybody can test their stuff, so that IMO, isn't my main concern here. They threw out the acceptable dosing regimen.....they should back it up...

Also, L. Rea is smart, stand-up, and probably has a descent amount of clout in the industry w/o a doubt. But that doesn't mean that we should just take his word for it...

 

[willieman]

All I wanna know is if the doseages recomended are safe. Anybody can test their stuff, so that IMO, isn't my main concern here. They threw out the acceptable dosing regimen.....they should back it up...

Also, L. Rea is smart, stand-up, and probably has a descent amount of clout in the industry w/o a doubt. But that doesn't mean that we should just take his word for it...

what if some of us pitch in to have some tested...is it expensive, how much would we need....Sledge?

 

[swany]

I don't see him as independent either. HM must be very convinced of the quality if they want this done (or at least the sample he gets).

Why would they ever print something negative about BK in MD?

and am I correct about PA doing the tests? I'm pretty sure it was and wasn't Par... I'm trying to find the thead at BB.com.

ok.. here it is
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?threadid=246252

 

[drei]

Author L Rea is a smart ass bro and his books and protocols are second to none. He works with many many pro's. He is without a doubt a top mind in the field. Later J

Doesn't mean **** when you have a financial stake in the game. Don't get it twisted that just because you are this or work with that you can't become biased.

 

[lifted]

I don't see him as independent either. HM must be very convinced of the quality if they want this done (or at least the sample he gets).

Why would they ever print something negative about BK in MD?

and am I correct about PA doing the tests? I'm pretty sure it was and wasn't Par... I'm trying to find the thead at BB.com.

ok.. here it is
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?threadid=246252

Yeah, wtf?? Doesn't BK still wright for MD?? Wow, that would suck...

 

[nsruffryder34]

If they had it done by a pharma company, they legally would have to have the product tested. There is no way around this, the product needs to be tested, not for purity or other reasons, but to make sure it is not a controlled or illegal substance, so they probably did have it tested. This dosnt mean that they independently had it tested, the pharma company probably had it done to protect their asses so the company (hm gear) might not even have the COA.... if they do the testing anyways it really dosnt matter... we will know for sure very soon....

 

[swany]

just gave him the go ahead and asked if he'd let me know when and where it would be printed, if he intends to proceed. I'll post if I hear anything.

 

[swany]

got this yesterday....

Hello, Brian:

I have opted for a different approach as it is becoming silly. Please read the post I left at BB.com (Pasted below for you). I do plan to do the results in my column if my editor has no problem with it. I doubt that she will, of course.

I believe that HM is releasing Testriol soon. It is actually M-4-AD except that it is a custom stereo isomer (100% active) as compared to the mixed which is 2-4%. If you try it, let me know your thoughts. Funny, I suggested that HM simply list the chemical as M-4-AD because I believed that everyone would be on top of the M-4-OHN as soon as it hit the market and that there is no way to hide that structure in the definition due to labeling issues and in truth due to an issue of integrity (It is a nandrolone deviation and some would test poorly without knowing why)

Thank you for the permission.

ALR

BTW: If you do order some Oxanavar from someone please let me know your results. Personally I like it a great deal.

Hello, to the board and please forgive me for intruding.

I am Author L. Rea. I write a few monthly columns in MD and other mags and the books Chemical Muscle Enhancement, Building The Perfect Beast (and a few others). Not that any of this matters, I simply do my job and believe a few of you may have read my work or been clients at one time or another.

My company was contracted by HM Gear to do the product designs for their current offerings. Part of my requirements in any such agreement (We have almost totally ceased to do product designs any longer due to the fact that few wish to produce the product as we intended "due to cost effectiveness") has become that we oversee every step until the product is shipped for distribution. We were paid on a per design basis, as always, so I could personally care less whether anyone buys their products or not.

Since I have mentioned HM Gear in my books and sometimes an article (along with other very reputable companies such as Avant Labs), I do care a great deal about what is in their products. 16 years of academia and 20 years in the sports industry has made me rather detached from anyone's hype and resentful of those whom opt to give a bad name to those who simply wish to make an honorable living.

First off, the silliness of assuming that a legal company would ever be stupid enough to produce 8,000 bottles of Oxanavar containing methylnandrolone (a controlled substance in all 50 states) to replace legal M 4-OHN (the correct isomer as well) is beyond comprehension. I do realize that there are some companies who do use low quality raws or even alternative compounds to rob consumers of their hard earned cash, but come on: 8,000 state and federal felony counts of manufacturing and sales of a controlled AAS? I do have to admit that the suggestion of such was comical. No disrespect intended of course. I too am a cautious lad.

Thank you for bearing with me while I babbled.

We were contacted by HM Gear asking if we could re-aquire the Certificate of Analysis for the raws received by the compounding pharmacy that did the production for Oxanavar. (Yes, it is law that the any DEA/FDA registered pharma facility validate both label claims and raw validity prior to, and post of, production. Otherwise prescription drugs could be faked and black market vendors could finally have an easy approach to quality production)

So we did one better: I had one of my secretaries order a couple of bottles of Oxanavar. When it arrives she will have it sent to San Rafael Chemical Services and print the results in my next MD article (Should be in the Aug issue since we run 2 months ahead). I recall the pre and post production results as being better than 98%. But why not reconfirm what I already know as fact again? And HM has agreed to post the results on their site as well once they come in.

As to dosages...If relative activity were absolute real world then Halotestin at 10mg/d would result in every user being ripped at 250lbs plus. In truth I have used this compound (M 4-OHN) with many clients for many years as a replacement for Oxandrolone and found the rate of anabolism to be about equal milligram for milligram (which certainly is no joke). The elevation on liver ALT and AST has thus far been no more than that of Oxandrolone and HPTA inhibition is less in comparison at dosages as high as 50mg/d (Though that is not a reasonable dosage to say the least)

The concerns for estrogenic or DHT side effects is less than that of Oxadrolone and BPH appears unaffected. The latter is believed likely only as a result of improved PSA scores realized by most users I have monitored.

Again, please forgive me for the intrusion. But I felt that since a few of my clients had e-mailed me this page I was compelled to offer what I had.

Best wishes and thank you for your time;
ALR

 

[MarcusG]

hmmm but isn't it odd then that a company that has conformed to FDA laws to validate label claims for a run of 8,000 bottles do not have the testing results handy but have to handoff such questions to an outside consultant? Are lab testing results that confusing??

 

[lifted]

hmmm but isn't it odd then that a company that has conformed to FDA laws to validate label claims for a run of 8,000 bottles do not have the testing results handy but have to handoff such questions to an outside consultant? Are lab testing results that confusing??

Yeah really...and he mentions that "Do you really think that they would take the risk of selling scheduled anabolics?" But, thats not the point, they won't even know of what they're getting until they have the results tested...so that's a moot point...

Also, he pimps another product in the beginning paragraphs of his post....

 

[CEDeoudes59]

right, I told him that too - the company wouldn't purposely release M4-N and label it M4OHN. Mistakes happen, alot.