M40HN and Sides Discussion on BB.com

swany

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http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?threadid=263889&perpage=30&pagenumber=5



Big Cat:

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]"Under methyl-hydroxy nandrolone, it says a reduction of side effects. If the 4-Oh is not metabolized and reduces aromatisation, then it also reduces 5-alpha-reduction. in the case of nandrolone, such a reduction reduces androgenic side-effects by 10 times. By using the 4OH you are actually increasing the androgenic side-effect profile by 10 times, putting it in the range of DHT.

looking forward to seeing more data on these products. i'm not one for hype, I'm more a of a data kind of guy."
[/font]


Seth Roberts:

"Big Cat: By adding the hydroxy you are eliminating the possibilty of aromatization of the nandrolone molecule (which is especially problematic with nandrolone due to its progestational activity). With regard to 5-alpha reduction, yes, you are increasing the net androgenicity becuase the molecule will not convert to dihydronandrolone, but you are also reducing the AR binding affinity through the addition of the 4-oh. I personally refer hydroxytest over hydroxynandrolone (same for the methylated versions)."

Big Cat:

"First of all I think you are overestimating the estrogen problems. The aromatization is only 10% that of testosterone, and as a result even combined with the progestagenic enhancement of estrogenic action it is still less dramatic than for say testosterone, a drug that rarely gives problems with gyno in doses of 750 mg a week or up, unless the subjects are very prone.

It also allows for very little stacking option if you figure it is a major problem, because the progestagenic activity remains and any combination with an aromatizing steroid would immediately result in an enhancement of that action from the hydroxynandrolone.

I have yet to see any evidence on OH steroids and if the OH is actually a significant enough group to stop enzymatic action to a large degree. But i'm assuming it is and that its stable (or you probably wouldn't risk selling it).

Then that brings us back to the inhibition of 5-alpha-reduction. I doubt the lesser binding to the AR is significant enough to make up for a 10-fold increase in potential to androgenic sides. Plus, a reduction in AR affinity would result in equally diminished returns in muscle gain, perfectly negating the one major plus nandrolone has. Either way, your anabolic: androgenic ratio would be 1:1 whereas for nandrolone, theoretically, it was 10:1, with 10 times the affinity for the AR in muscle compared to other tissues.

I was never a big fan of nandrolone to begin with, but by inhibiting 5-alpha-reductase, you have effectively removed its one major benefit."


Tomas101:

"ok i'm confused...m4ohn may raise dht?? i thought didnt convert to dht?"

Big Cat:

"It doesn't raise DHT. DHT also doesn't matter. Androgenic problems arise as a result of androgenic action in those tissues. In a human being not using anything the problem arises because in those tissues it is not testosterone that is the dominant androgen, but DHT. testosterone converts to DHT through the 5AR enzyme and DHT is three times as potent in those tissues. If you inhibit DHT conversion then you get unconverted testosterone in those tissues as the dominant androgen, and three times less chance of androgenic side-effects, while maintaining equal direct anabolic effects in muscle since testosterone is the dominant androgen there. (I do say direct anabolic effects, DHT does contribute to health and gains in many other ways).

Nandrolone is actually of the same potency as DHT. If you have nandrolone in problem tissues it is just as bad as DHT. However the benefit of nandrolone is that it uses the same 5AR enzyme that converts test to DHT, and uses it to convert to DHN, which is 10 times less potent. As such, it is less androgenic than even even testosterone by a factor 3.3 and less androgenic than DHT by a factor 10 (theoretical numbers only)

By using 4OH, you are not only reducing aromatase conversion, but also 5AR conversion, meaning you get pure nandrolone in those tissues like scalp and prostate, which would be same as DHT, thereby negating the one major plus nandrolone has over other steroids. If it doesn't have that, its actually a very crude and rather useless steroid."

Patrick Arnold:

"huh?

there is an OH at the 4 position big cat. therefore, the properties are not gonna be the same as with nandrolone, even if the delta 4 double bond survives metabolism

vida says it has 2.8 androgen and 13 times anabolic action compared to m-test.

you made a deduction based on the influence of the 4-OH on the metabolism of the rest of the steroid, but completely forgot that the 4-OH also will influence the pharmacological action (receptor binding whatever)

not thinking at all there BC"


Legal Gear (EDog):

"Agreed.

The issue is that it is not Nandrolone, so although you may think it to be higher than Nandrolone/DHN complex in total androgenic activity we can most likely conclude through the RBA's of OH-Testestosterone and the data in Vida that the OH group lowers both the anabolic and androgenic affinity of a steroid, thus making it inherently less androgenic than Nandrolone which should offset the 5aR issue."


Patrick Arnold:

(Originally posted by Big Cat

By using 4OH, you are not only reducing aromatase conversion, but also 5AR conversion, meaning you get pure nandrolone in those tissues like scalp and prostate, . )

"you are getting 4-OH nandrolone in these tissues, not nandrolone

and they are NOT the same thing at all

duh...."


Patrick Arnold:

"vida book shows that this compound is not very androgenic, at least from a ratio standpoint

now whether or not what is in the bottle is what is supposed to be, god knows. there are no analytical standards available to judge against

i do have a GC/MS though, and if i am sent a small sample i can at least see if the molecular weight is correct"

Big Cat:


[font=verdana,arial,helvetica]([/font]Originally posted by Patrick Arnold

huh?

there is an OH at the 4 position big cat. therefore, the properties are not gonna be the same as with nandrolone, even if the delta 4 double bond survives metabolism

vida says it has 2.8 androgen and 13 times anabolic action compared to m-test.

you made a deduction based on the influence of the 4-OH on the metabolism of the rest of the steroid, but completely forgot that the 4-OH also will influence the pharmacological action (receptor binding whatever)

not thinking at all there BC)



"Nope, not at all, just mentioning some things off the top of my head. Which is why I took care to state it was merely theoretical."

Jedi Master:

"Patrick didnt Bruce say that this will be very androgenic??"

Patrick Arnold:

"i dunno what bruce says, but who do you think knows more about steroid pharmacology, bruce or myself?"

SldgeHmr:

"so far everyone that is using M4OHN, there are very low androgenic sides, small amounts of acne is all I have heard so far."

No Mercy:

"Patrick, I appreciate your input. So overall do you feel that MOHN looks like a solid effective compound on paper? Thank you"


Patrick Arnold:

"yeah

i just want someone to ask all these folks how they plan to have the identity and the purity of this compound determined?

by what analytical methods, and will they share the analytical results with us.

Given the recent debacle with m-dien I would expect the consumer would demand this"
 

willieman

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Rumors

The rumors are staring to fly on this compound since evveryone is hitting the market...yours isn't pure, yours isn't tested...I think that we start demanding that many of the compunds be tested for purity...
 

swany

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The rumors are staring to fly on this compound since evveryone is hitting the market...yours isn't pure, yours isn't tested...I think that we start demanding that many of the compunds be tested for purity...
From what I get out of this debate is that Sledge's M4ohn, between price and quality, is the only one I'd touch for now. Why bother investing time in testing products that are more expensive anyway. Like Sledge said, The manufacturers should be doing that. PA is quite knowledgable, and he said if the product is what it's supposed to be, it should be good. Time will allow us to confirm or not, but results look good so far. I just wouldn't run high doses in an attempt to rush results.
 
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jweave23

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I am just sick of what PA describes accurately, IMO: "running your finger down the Vida book and calling China to produce it", LOL. I can't keep up with each one in detail much after M1T came out, and with the ban nipping at our heels, sadly I have zero desire to.

It seems to me we need more time to make sure each compund is accurately tested for purity, but even more time to determine the "most effective" dose range....sometimes it seems like it's really a crapshoot and we have been making guesses at what people should take just to introduce the compound on the market before it's illegal. Business will be business :rolleyes:
 

willieman

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I am just sick of what PA describes accurately, IMO: "running your finger down the Vida book and calling China to produce it", LOL. I can't keep up with each one in detail much after M1T came out, and with the ban nipping at our heels, sadly I have zero desire to.

It seems to me we need more time to make sure each compund is accurately tested for purity, but even more time to determine the "most effective" dose range....sometimes it seems like it's really a crapshoot and we have been making guesses at what people should take just to introduce the compound on the market before it's illegal. Business will be business :rolleyes:
AND...depending on what camp you are loyal to......
 
Dwight Schrute

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THat was a funny thread. I am tempted to show why Seth's studies on glutamine are worthless but we all know how that ends up plus its 2 weeks old anyway. I wonder of he actually read them.
 

jweave23

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THat was a funny thread. I am tempted to show why Seth's studies on glutamine are worthless but we all know how that ends up plus its 2 weeks old anyway. I wonder of he actually read them.
probably not, and yeah it's not worth your time.....unless you've got alot to spare and enjoy repetition;)
 

nsruffryder34

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My personal opinion on seth is that he is a douchebag who pulls studies and reccomendations out of his ass. I wouldnt take anything he said for truth....
 

willieman

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My personal opinion on seth is that he is a douchebag who pulls studies and reccomendations out of his ass. I wouldnt take anything he said for truth....
you have to take everything with a grain of salt.....my personal expirence is to ask the end user, and cross reference ALL the BS.Any more I can't believe any body, the are so many variations in studies.Sooner or later the real gear is around the corner.

By the way what will be the price of sledges MOHN...I as of yet have not seen a price, but everybody keeps saying how cheap it is.....the LG stuff (on their site is 90 2mg pills for 59.99 at lest that what I figured from a post I read) H.M gear is 90 5mg pills for $51.79 (but oh my its not real!!....most I have talked to doing HM gear are happy)
 
sweet-physique

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Sledge sells it at $35 a gram.
1000mg @ $35.00
versus say a 450mg at $51.79 For H.M. gear. If that won't convince you you should have taken kiddy chemistry in school and do some homebrewing nothing else will. I'm pretty sure sledge will have cheaper tabs if/when he tabs it, but who cares? Buy the powder its a no brainer.
 

willieman

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Sledge sells it at $35 a gram.
1000mg @ $35.00
versus say a 450mg at $51.79 For H.M. gear. If that won't convince you you should have taken kiddy chemistry in school and do some homebrewing nothing else will. I'm pretty sure sledge will have cheaper tabs if/when he tabs it, but who cares? Buy the powder its a no brainer.
kiddy chemistry?ahahahaha.....there isn't any powder on the site, no tabs....I am just trying to point out how the tabs are so cheap (from what others say)and by your own admitance, you are "pretty sure it will be cheaper", but you can't even get them.Just trying to compare prices dude, and compare apples to apples...relax..
 

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kiddy chemistry?ahahahaha.....there isn't any powder on the site, no tabs....I am just trying to point out how the tabs are so cheap (from what others say)and by your own admitance, you are "pretty sure it will be cheaper", but you can't even get them.Just trying to compare prices dude, and compare apples to apples...relax..
sledge's powder sold out the same day he put it up. i have no idea how many tabs he's making but i'd check his website everyday if i were looking to buy some.

sledge is a good guy, you don't see anyone else selling powder because they care about the money more. You don't see anyone else using their own stuff or posting lab tests.

I have no idea how much he is tabbing but watch for it because it could go...fast.

fiddler
 
Alpine

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Ok so as for DHT... M4OHN IS or ISNT hard on hair? It wouldnt be like taking Proviron or something would it?

Currectly On 2nd cycle - Test @ 500mg/wk + 1mg finasteride ED. I was thinking of throwing some M4OHN in at the end for shits and grins but im unsure of the DHT/gair factor just yet.
 

fiddler

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Ok so as for DHT... M4OHN IS or ISNT hard on hair? It wouldnt be like taking Proviron or something would it?

Currectly On 2nd cycle - Test @ 500mg/wk + 1mg finasteride ED. I was thinking of throwing some M4OHN in at the end for shits and grins but im unsure of the DHT/gair factor just yet.
well, according to the more knowledgable, m4ohn doesn't convert to anything like dht so no hair problems. some people have had hair problems with hmgear's m4ohn. they think it has other stuff in it...because they switched from sledge's to hmgear and notice hair loss...your call.

fiddler
 
Alpine

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This is why I was confused - from what I initially read M4OHN wasnt supposed to convert to DHT or cause hair loss. But then I saw BigCat's post and I wondered what was up. I also saw the posts about HM Gear's causing some hair loss.

So Designer Supps (Sledge) is the best bet then? At 1Fast400 I see Designer Supps M4OHN for $25 at 50ml (currently sold out). Its 2mg/ml so taking 8mg/day(4ml) its only about 12.5 weeks. Buy 2 and its still $50 for 25 days worth. Gaspari's is 90 caps at 3mg each for $51. Thats 9mg for 30 days. Am I missing something here? Why is this such a good deal?

How much can you get it for directly from DesignerSupps.com? I dont see it - when is it supposed to hit for sale?
 
Manu20

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I have seen very few reports of people experiencing hair loss from m4ohn.
 

cookmic5

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So Designer Supps (Sledge) is the best bet then? At 1Fast400 I see Designer Supps M4OHN for $25 at 50ml (currently sold out). Its 2mg/ml so taking 8mg/day(4ml) its only about 12.5 weeks. Buy 2 and its still $50 for 25 days worth. Gaspari's is 90 caps at 3mg each for $51. Thats 9mg for 30 days. Am I missing something here? Why is this such a good deal?

How much can you get it for directly from DesignerSupps.com? I dont see it - when is it supposed to hit for sale?
You are missing something, what you see on 1fast is the beta oral solution. What DS has had on his site before, and apparently sold out of very quickly, was the powder per gram (which you could mix into a homebrew oral solution for very cheap). What he will have in the future are tabs, 4mg, priced lower than those others because: 1. He says they will be, and 2. All his other products have been. I believe he has said that he expects the tabs to be up for sale sometime around Monday, maybe.

cm5
 

Sldge

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Well the powder was sent to be tabbed, I was told 7-9 days for the tabbing, plus 3-4 days to ship to me, Ill start the presale. They will be 4mgs per tab, 90 tabs per bottle under $50 (and not 49.99 either, under is under if you know what I mean) per bottle on my site. the presale will be less and then when the presale is over they will go to the regular price, which will be less then $50.00.

Ill send out a newsletter and post the exact presale and regular pricing info as soon as the tabs are on their way to me. I hope to have that info by tues.
 

willieman

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Well the powder was sent to be tabbed, I was told 7-9 days for the tabbing, plus 3-4 days to ship to me, Ill start the presale. They will be 4mgs per tab, 90 tabs per bottle under $50 (and not 49.99 either, under is under if you know what I mean) per bottle on my site. the presale will be less and then when the presale is over they will go to the regular price, which will be less then $50.00.

Ill send out a newsletter and post the exact presale and regular pricing info as soon as the tabs are on their way to me. I hope to have that info by tues.
ah ha..thank you sir..

so we have - H.M Gear 90 tabs - 5 mg for $69 on their site, $52 on B.B.com, compound is still in question, but the ones I have talked to seem to be getting good results.I have also put in an e-mail to H.M gear, and there is a returned e-mail from someone who wrote HM gear somewhere on this site.

Legal gear - 90 tabs - 2 mg for $59.99 on their site, soon to be on BB.com (probably cheaper) compound shouldn't be in question, e-dogg has stated he can verify.

Designer supps - 90 tabs - 4mg for under $50 and a presale price to boot.Compound should not be under question as Sledge is probaby the most ruthless tester of them all.

Those seem to be the players, if anyone has any additions please.

Note:my kiddie chemistry set was borrowed by my niece...you guys will have to do your own math.
 

rsray1975

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Gaspari Oxavar - 90 Cap 3mg for $51.95 at a couple of different sites.
Legal gear you can get it for $34.95.
I personally, is trying to wait for sledge to get is in. I would like to start my cycle soon.
 
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willieman

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Gaspari Oxavar - 90 Cap 3mg for $51.95 at a couple of different sites.
Legal gear you can get it for $34.95.
I personally, is trying to wait for sledge to get is in. I would like to start my cycle soon.
navar
I am posting a link to a thread started by SWANY ...an e-mail he sent to H.M Gear with a reply from one of the original designers..it might be featured in an MD column....go swany

http://www.anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?p=134335#post134335

we should keep this thread rolling until we every knows we are all getting good stuff, and resonable prices.
Somebody call Gaspari...:)
 

psywzrd

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Well the powder was sent to be tabbed, I was told 7-9 days for the tabbing, plus 3-4 days to ship to me, Ill start the presale. They will be 4mgs per tab, 90 tabs per bottle under $50 (and not 49.99 either, under is under if you know what I mean) per bottle on my site. the presale will be less and then when the presale is over they will go to the regular price, which will be less then $50.00.

Ill send out a newsletter and post the exact presale and regular pricing info as soon as!the tabs are on their way to me. I hope to have that info by tues.
How do I get on the list to get this newsletter? I want to make sure I get in on the m4ohn presale:) .
 

Sldge

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Psy, when you sign up for an account at my site, you check the newsletter box. I will sen done out as well as post in the DS forum when the presale begins, the price and how long it will last.
 
Alpine

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You can add Bill Robert's comments on Nan to that above

"With nandrolone, an aromatase inhibitor will be of no use, because aromatase is not used in the aromatization of nandrolone."

"Nandrolone itself is a 5a -reductase inhibitor"

and muddy the waters a little more. Damn, just Damn.





This doesnt apply here though does it? If its the correct compound it shouldnt actually be nandrolone - right?
 

Sldge

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well its still nandrolone, but it doesnt mean it will act or have the same effects as nandrolone (which we already know).
1. because of the methylation
and
2. the 4-OH
 
Alpine

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Hmm so there are many opinions on just what is true about this compound. Thats not good...

Are these 2 things for sure?
A) M4OHN is fine with finasteride. Its not like nandrolone+finasteride which is very bad.
B) M4OHN is not hard on hair. It does not increase DHT and is not a DHT derivative. If its basically nandrolone then this is a given. But if it has a negative effect with finasteride then this can be even worse.
 

Sldge

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the thing is the 4-oh group changes everything as well as the methylation. so even though the base maybe nandrolone it may not act like (and so far doesnt seem to) nandrolone at all.
there is no conversion to dht (in either nandrolone, methyl-nandrolone or methyl-4oh- nandrolone) nandrolone and methyl-nandrolone would have a conversion to DHN.

Unlike testosterone which forms DHT (dihydrotestosterone) at the 5AR enzyme, a hormone 3-4 times as potent as an androgen receptor stimulator, nandrolone forms DHN (dihydronandrolone) a hormone that is even less suited than the already mild parent hormone for agonizing the androgen receptor.

the 4oh should inhibit a DHN conversion (technically) making it a more androgenic compound, but as we know from Vida, it is has a very low androgenic profile.

the compound is brand new, there is no real research on it, so it is just going to take people to try it and report results. all i can say is how it was with me, i am prone to MPB and I had no hairloss. Other then that, just try and watch for the logs.
 

nsruffryder34

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M-4ohn, Is significantly androgenic, despite what Vida lists it as, it does exert a god amount of androgenic sides.
Vida tables should only be a quick referance, you cant make an assumption of a substance just from vida, alot of times the Vida tables are wrong....
 
Alpine

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Hmm so M4OHN and Finasteride "could" be very bad together.
 
Alpine

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I emailed Patrick Arnold because I value his opinion very much and he knows his stuff possibly better than anyone. He also isnt involved with M4OHN...

Q: The problem is that nobody can seem to agree on just exactly how the Methylation and the addition of a Hydroxy affects the Nandralone. I am currently taking finasteride ED. I have read that M4OHN+Finasteride could possibly be very bad for hair loss. Also, aside from the Nandrolone/finasteride aspect some have reasoned that M4OHN could possibly give high androgenic
like sides despite whats been said previously. How would you say M4OHN is for things such as hair loss and acne? From what I have read it shouldn't be at all. There is a lot of misinformation out there and I was really hoping you could help clarify.

A: The M4OHN would be ok with finasteride. The OH at the 4 position blocks reduction of the double bond (5alpha reduction) so this issue is not relevant as it is with nandrolone.

Also, M4OHN, according to the assays, is highly anabolic and low androgenic. So side effects should be minimized

Maybe this will help clear some things up. It doesnt appear there is an issue with finasteride+M4OHN and on paper at least it does seem to have a very low androgenic profile. BigCat seems very educated and knows a great deal but it seems most of what he has hypothesized about M4OHN is misguided or flat out wrong. I respect his opinion but I dont think this is his strongest area.
 

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Maybe this will help clear some things up. It doesnt appear there is an issue with finasteride+M4OHN and on paper at least it does seem to have a very low androgenic profile. BigCat seems very educated and knows a great deal but it seems most of what he has hypothesized about M4OHN is misguided or flat out wrong. I respect his opinion but I dont think this is his strongest area.
Bigcat does good research and his papers that he write are well written with known information. the problem is that he is not a biochemist and when he starts to think he is one, that's where he gets in trouble. predicting effects of new chemicals, generally requires experience in the field. It really helps if you know how all the enzymes work at the molecular level.

fiddler
 
Alpine

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Bigcat does good research and his papers that he write are well written with known information. the problem is that he is not a biochemist and when he starts to think he is one, that's where he gets in trouble. predicting effects of new chemicals, generally requires experience in the field. It really helps if you know how all the enzymes work at the molecular level.

fiddler
I agree...

Anyway, this could help clear up some of the misconceptions about M4OHN. It shouldnt cause any problems with hairloss and there shouldnt be any problem using it with finasteride. The side effects should also be very mild (if any). I guess it remains to be seen is how effective it really is. Im still very interested in trying it out along with my cycle. I should probably take it alone to judge it fairly though.
 

fiddler

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I agree...

Anyway, this could help clear up some of the misconceptions about M4OHN. It shouldnt cause any problems with hairloss and there shouldnt be any problem using it with finasteride. The side effects should also be very mild (if any). I guess it remains to be seen is how effective it really is. Im still very interested in trying it out along with my cycle. I should probably take it alone to judge it fairly though.

Look at it this way, m4ohn seems to give lean gains without much sides so you would just treat it as such and stack it with that in mind.

another thing is the dosage question. I think the differences in dosage for different people comes from body weight, and novice, intermediate or advanced user.

It would really minimize the confusion when people post their info if they added how much they weigh and how long they have been using hormones.

i just started a trimax cycle with m4ohn, this will include 25 minutes of running at 6.5, 3-4 times/week. if anyone is interested i will post a cycle report in the cycle forum.

fiddler
 

Sldge

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Alpine, i sent you my pm beforer reading this but ill post it anyway, since there is no dht or dhn conversion with M4OHN it shouldnt be effected by finasteride. of course everyone is different, but it shouldnt be a problem.
 

swany

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I got this email yesterday regarding the magazine thingy



Hello, Brian:

I have opted for a different approach as it is becoming silly. Please read the post I left at BB.com (Pasted below for you). I do plan to do the results in my column if my editor has no problem with it. I doubt that she will, of course.

I believe that HM is releasing Testriol soon. It is actually M-4-AD except that it is a custom stereo isomer (100% active) as compared to the mixed which is 2-4%. If you try it, let me know your thoughts. Funny, I suggested that HM simply list the chemical as M-4-AD because I believed that everyone would be on top of the M-4-OHN as soon as it hit the market and that there is no way to hide that structure in the definition due to labeling issues and in truth due to an issue of integrity (It is a nandrolone deviation and some would test poorly without knowing why)

Thank you for the permission.

ALR

BTW: If you do order some Oxanavar from someone please let me know your results. Personally I like it a great deal.

Hello, to the board and please forgive me for intruding.

I am Author L. Rea. I write a few monthly columns in MD and other mags and the books Chemical Muscle Enhancement, Building The Perfect Beast (and a few others). Not that any of this matters, I simply do my job and believe a few of you may have read my work or been clients at one time or another.

My company was contracted by HM Gear to do the product designs for their current offerings. Part of my requirements in any such agreement (We have almost totally ceased to do product designs any longer due to the fact that few wish to produce the product as we intended "due to cost effectiveness") has become that we oversee every step until the product is shipped for distribution. We were paid on a per design basis, as always, so I could personally care less whether anyone buys their products or not.

Since I have mentioned HM Gear in my books and sometimes an article (along with other very reputable companies such as Avant Labs), I do care a great deal about what is in their products. 16 years of academia and 20 years in the sports industry has made me rather detached from anyone's hype and resentful of those whom opt to give a bad name to those who simply wish to make an honorable living.

First off, the silliness of assuming that a legal company would ever be stupid enough to produce 8,000 bottles of Oxanavar containing methylnandrolone (a controlled substance in all 50 states) to replace legal M 4-OHN (the correct isomer as well) is beyond comprehension. I do realize that there are some companies who do use low quality raws or even alternative compounds to rob consumers of their hard earned cash, but come on: 8,000 state and federal felony counts of manufacturing and sales of a controlled AAS? I do have to admit that the suggestion of such was comical. No disrespect intended of course. I too am a cautious lad.

Thank you for bearing with me while I babbled.

We were contacted by HM Gear asking if we could re-aquire the Certificate of Analysis for the raws received by the compounding pharmacy that did the production for Oxanavar. (Yes, it is law that the any DEA/FDA registered pharma facility validate both label claims and raw validity prior to, and post of, production. Otherwise prescription drugs could be faked and black market vendors could finally have an easy approach to quality production)

So we did one better: I had one of my secretaries order a couple of bottles of Oxanavar. When it arrives she will have it sent to San Rafael Chemical Services and print the results in my next MD article (Should be in the Aug issue since we run 2 months ahead). I recall the pre and post production results as being better than 98%. But why not reconfirm what I already know as fact again? And HM has agreed to post the results on their site as well once they come in.

As to dosages...If relative activity were absolute real world then Halotestin at 10mg/d would result in every user being ripped at 250lbs plus. In truth I have used this compound (M 4-OHN) with many clients for many years as a replacement for Oxandrolone and found the rate of anabolism to be about equal milligram for milligram (which certainly is no joke). The elevation on liver ALT and AST has thus far been no more than that of Oxandrolone and HPTA inhibition is less in comparison at dosages as high as 50mg/d (Though that is not a reasonable dosage to say the least)

The concerns for estrogenic or DHT side effects is less than that of Oxadrolone and BPH appears unaffected. The latter is believed likely only as a result of improved PSA scores realized by most users I have monitored.

Again, please forgive me for the intrusion. But I felt that since a few of my clients had e-mailed me this page I was compelled to offer what I had.

Best wishes and thank you for your time;
ALR
 
bioman

bioman

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That pretty much settles that.

R.I.P. issue.
 
sweet-physique

sweet-physique

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kiddy chemistry?ahahahaha.....there isn't any powder on the site, no tabs....I am just trying to point out how the tabs are so cheap (from what others say)and by your own admitance, you are "pretty sure it will be cheaper", but you can't even get them.Just trying to compare prices dude, and compare apples to apples...relax..
sledge's powder sold out the same day he put it up. i have no idea how many tabs he's making but i'd check his website everyday if i were looking to buy some.

sledge is a good guy, you don't see anyone else selling powder because they care about the money more. You don't see anyone else using their own stuff or posting lab tests.

I have no idea how much he is tabbing but watch for it because it could go...fast.

fiddler
Willieman,
Sorry you are having hard time finding affordable MOHN. Fiddler is right, there was indeed powder last week at one point. I did in fact order powder from sledge on Tuesday May 18 and received it in the mail on Friday May 21. He was selling it at $35 a gram, and you could buy three get one free. That's only $26.25 per gram. The reason sledge keeps selling out is he is the man with the goods at the best price. Since my MOHN powder is here now it is time for me to go ahead and put my kiddie chemistry skills to work. Where the hell did I put those damn beakers?
 

willieman

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Willieman,
Sorry you are having hard time finding affordable MOHN. Fiddler is right, there was indeed powder last week at one point. I did in fact order powder from sledge on Tuesday May 18 and received it in the mail on Friday May 21. He was selling it at $35 a gram, and you could buy three get one free. That's only $26.25 per gram. The reason sledge keeps selling out is he is the man with the goods at the best price. Since my MOHN powder is here now it is time for me to go ahead and put my kiddie chemistry skills to work. Where the hell did I put those damn beakers?
Oh...I am not having a hard time at all, quite the opposite...I am stocked up for my next cycle(I've been stocking on everything lately)...going to try stacking with some other various things...igf come to mind.I was just looking out for some of the others that might be reading, and trying to get a general concensous of what was going on.At the time there were no prices for Sledges stuff...now there is.
How are you mixing yours, caps, liquid?Let me know how you cycle goes...I won't be starting for a while, and would like to see and here more of what people think, dosages etc....

Peace
 
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