First Cycle help and clarifications

[DCLibra]

So i just started my very first cycle this week.
Test C 300, 100mgs/eod
Tren E 200, 100mgs/eod
.5 Arimadex eod

Stats:
39
5'10
155
12%BF

So I know the first thing im going to hear is that i dont weigh enough, eat enough, etc. So here's my dilemma, I eat a lot and very good diet and 155 is my max. I workout 4-5 days a week and have for 10 years or so. Im doing a cycle to gain more strength, muscle and weight and so far Ive gained 3 lbs this week. So why I am being told on another site:
"Stop your cycle, you dont weigh enough" Is there a weight restriction for doing roids?
"your wasting your cycle", ok so your saying I wont gain any weight, muscle or look any better whatsoever?
"Dont do Tren your first cycle". Ok why?
"Dont take the health risks" Ok is there a health risk that is different for me than with anyone else doing cycles?

Ive done my research. I have friends just like my build doing the same cycles and they all look great.

So what am I missing? Ive been wanting to do this a long time now and finally have the ability to do it and all I hear is negative feedback.

Also, arimadex...again, conflicting answers, do I only take it if I have gyno issues or should I just run it as Im doing eod through the cycle?

Thanks all.

 

[GeekPoop]

cuz you dont know how to eat, youll gain and than lose probably everything in PCT.


your post seems 99% troll

 

[gamer2be08]

Hmm, you know you dont weigh enough... And your first cycle your using tren... You must be crazy. I really hope you got your diet down and your eating enough because if you dont, all your gains and then some will disappear like they were never there after cycle.. I would suggest you stop now and take a 2 week PCT. Eat more, train heavy and cycle test-e solo when you weigh more.. Good luck, your gonna need it.

 

[DCLibra]

So what do you mean I dont weight enough? Is there a weight restriction to doing roids?
Whats wrong with doing tren first cycle?
And since it was mentioned, what is the your suggestions on what to do for PCT so I dont lose anything?

 

[DCLibra]

99% troll? whats that mean? i just joined this site today

 

[gamer2be08]

So what do you mean I dont weight enough? Is there a weight restriction to doing roids?
Whats wrong with doing tren first cycle?
And since it was mentioned, what is the your suggestions on what to do for PCT so I dont lose anything?

:gotsearch

 

[DCLibra]

I dont understand why everyone is so rude on these sites when asking for help. I just wanted to ask some questions after all the research I did, thats all.

 

[gamer2be08]

Ok..
Raise the test to 500mg per week.
Keep the tren the same.
Take adex .5mg E3D
Start PCT 2 weeks after last inject. Clomid- 50/50/50/50
If your going over 12 weeks, you should get HCG
This cycle is useless if you dont run for at least 10 weeks...

 

[DCLibra]

thanks gamer. I really appreciate it. I have Nolvadex for PCT, i heard that was better than clomid.
So upping the test to 500/week...will that give me more gains? whats the reason to up it?
Its a 10 week cycle, forgot to say.

Also, what did he mean by troll?

 

[gamer2be08]

thanks gamer. I really appreciate it. I have Nolvadex for PCT, i heard that was better than clomid.
So upping the test to 500/week...will that give me more gains? whats the reason to up it?
Its a 10 week cycle, forgot to say.

Also, what did he mean by troll?

Nolva can work, but you might need some caber then.. Nolva and progestins have a habit of making leaky nipples.. 500 is a moderate dose per week for test. Yes you will see better gains from that..

 

[dannyeff]

listen dude, everyones just trying to help and lets be honest u will keep alot of ur gains, my mates 1st injection cyxle was deca and sus. hw put on 24 lbs and lost 6. his diet was utter ****e! thats awsome for a 4 week cycle! gl mate

this is my honest opinion. should take before and after pics

 

[gamer2be08]

listen dude, everyones just trying to help and lets be honest u will keep alot of ur gains, my mates 1st injection cyxle was deca and sus. hw put on 24 lbs and lost 6. his diet was utter ****e! thats awsome for a 4 week cycle! gl mate

this is my honest opinion. should take before and after pics

You need to shut up and get out of here!

 

[DCLibra]

gamer, you talking to me?

 

[gamer2be08]

gamer, you talking to me?

No, that danny character..

 

[fmfws185]

LMAO dude u got negged sooooo much hahaha good luck with ur cycle man.
U might want to take out that tren tho

 

[dannyeff]

if the guys going to take them the guys going to takre them! u saying out the 10 week cycle he wont keep a pound after pct? a think he will atleast kewp an easy 10lbs to 25 lbs.

at the end of the day its bad advice but its the truth.

thats like saying if i start a bulking diet and he takes roids at the end of the day al make better gains?? i think not!

with a **** diet he will lose fat n get nice solid muscle! atleast hes built a base.

bulking while on roids gets the max amount a muscle from ir but w.e the guy gains he will be happy with the gains

 

[DCLibra]

negged?

 

[EasyEJL]

if the guys going to take them the guys going to takre them! u saying out the 10 week cycle he wont keep a pound after pct? a think he will atleast kewp an easy 10lbs to 25 lbs.

its not "after pct" its any long term amount of time. If he can't eat enough to gain a single pound (whether fat or muscle) over 155 then once the cycle is over, he's going to slowly drop back to 155. Thats just simple caloric math.

 

[gamer2be08]

its not "after pct" its any long term amount of time. If he can't eat enough to gain a single pound (whether fat or muscle) over 155 then once the cycle is over, he's going to slowly drop back to 155. Thats just simple caloric math.

Whats funny Easy, is my dad is 195 13 percent BF and only consumes about 2500-3000 calories a day. He plays tennis, basketball and lifts. He doesn't lose weight, but doesn't gain weight either?

 

[EasyEJL]

So what do you mean I dont weight enough?

If you can't manage to get to at least middle of normal weight scale for your height naturally, you haven't reached a point where steroids will do any good. You are below average weight, which means you don't eat enough for your size. Any steroid related gains will be transient.

Is there a weight restriction to doing roids?

no, but your weight suggests that your biggest problem is your diet.

Whats wrong with doing tren first cycle?

its unnecessary on a first cycle as you will make no more gains than test alone particularly given how poor your diet must be, and is the injectible with highest side effect likelyhood.

And since it was mentioned, what is the your suggestions on what to do for PCT so I dont lose anything?

Its not about PCT losses, its about long term losses. If you are used to today eating 2500 calories and that maintains 155lbs, then once you are done with the cycle, and are still eating 2500 calories, your weight will slowly drift back to 155. I have no idea if its 2500 calories, but eating as you were that you couldn't gain any weight naturally will have you back at 155 sooner or later.

 

[EasyEJL]

Whats funny Easy, is my dad is 195 13 percent BF and only consumes about 2500-3000 calories a day. He plays tennis, basketball and lifts. He doesn't lose weight, but doesn't gain weight either?

Oh sure, so that means he's eating right around maintenance. If he added another 250 cals a day, he's start slowly rising in weight.

What maintenance is does vary person to person and to some pretty wide degress, you can take two different 150lb guys and one has a 2200 cal maintenance and the other a 3000 cal maintenance. But pretty well if either of them adds 300 calories a day, they'll start seeing mass gains.

 

[gamer2be08]

Oh sure, so that means he's eating right around maintenance. If he added another 250 cals a day, he's start slowly rising in weight.

What maintenance is does vary person to person and to some pretty wide degress, you can take two different 150lb guys and one has a 2200 cal maintenance and the other a 3000 cal maintenance. But pretty well if either of them adds 300 calories a day, they'll start seeing mass gains.

That seems really low for maintenance though... I eat over 4500 a day and gains be slow brotha..

 

[EasyEJL]

That seems really low for maintenance though... I eat over 4500 a day and gains be slow brotha..

yeah, but there are tons of things that go into it, age being one. Thyroid function, basal temperature, activity levels, etc all play their parts. mine with doing no cardio is around 2900-3100 at 210lbs.

 

[gamer2be08]

yeah, but there are tons of things that go into it, age being one. Thyroid function, basal temperature, activity levels, etc all play their parts. mine with doing no cardio is around 2900-3100 at 210lbs.

I do no cardio. I lift for an hour to an hour and a half. I eat, work and I sleep. The Dr. a while back said my thyroid is HYPO.. But, I believe he is wrong..

 

[GnastyMcNasty]

why are you pinning enanthate esters every other day?? That kind of defeats the whole purpose of running long esters imo. guess it would still work

 

[gamer2be08]

Dont get me wrong, im making gains, but not at the speed I wish I was..

 

[gamer2be08]

Oh and OP, You only need to inject twice a week, not EOD..

 

[dannyeff]

does ones appetite not go up though wen bmi changes??

 

[DCLibra]

Thanks for all the threads here guys...im going to up my calories by adding more to each meal. Im guessing my appetite will go up along the way too with what im doing cycle wise?
Since Im already on the cycle and its my first, I will keep pushing and eating and be better for the next cycle if need be.

Inject what twice a week?

 

[DCLibra]

Looks like im going to stop the tren and just go with the test cycle....anything I need to know after doing 3 shots of tren 100mgs each? I can just stop and go on with my test cycle and then do my pct?

 

[EasyEJL]

Sure, that should be fine.

 

[DCLibra]

So my friend im doing this with tells me I wont get anywhere just doing test alone and its a waste. Thats why we got the tren to go with the test. So sounds like he doesnt know much? and that I will get something out of the test alone?

Im doing Test Cyp 300, 100mgs eod so far, total of three times this past week. Sounds like i only need it twice a week at 150mgs each or should I be up say at like 500mgs a week? Ive been told I need 500 to make any difference, while others say 300 is fine?

 

[EasyEJL]

I know a guy who is around 5'8, 240lbs and he makes gains at 400.

I make some gains still at as low as 200. I can easily add half a lean pound a week at that if I was shooting for mass gains. Doesn't sound like all that much, but its better than most guys can manage naturally.

Lots of guys have their own opinions, however simple math dictates that a human at top of scale of normal has roughly the equivalent of 125-150mg of test c a week. Even at "just" 300, you are generally at more than 2x the top of human normal range. So if you can't make gains at twice normal human testosterone levels, the flaws are in your training or diet. Or any gains you do get would be non-maintainable, as when you go off cycle and are back at normal levels, you won't have enough testosterone to support them. Most of the guys who say you need more don't understand diet or training all that well. Keep in mind even if they are big that
a) Doing something that is less than optimal for results long enough will still see some results
b) Steroids do work - so even if your diet and training sort of suck, use enough anabolics and you'll continue to make gains. The downside to this is that of course, you'll also get hair loss, prostate issues, high red blood count, potentially kidney issues, etc. And you can end up with of course loss of natural testosterone production.
c) They are just passing along the BS that someone else told them, without any scientific backing.

Also, at EOD you end up dosing 350mg a week, as you end up doing 7 shots in 14 days. It definitely is simpler to dose .6ml of your 300 2x a week for about the same dosage. Or if you wanted to go a little higher, you could dose 1ml on monday, and a half ml on friday, for 450 a week. definitely no point in you going any higher than that.

Just for the heck of it, can you list what weight you use (and rep range) for some of the major lifts? Deadlifts, barbell squats, barbell or dumbbell flat or incline presses?

 

[DCLibra]

Thanks I really appreciate the thoughtful reply.
So when you talk about the downsides...is this with prolonged use or from just one cycle of test?

 

[EasyEJL]

Thanks I really appreciate the thoughtful reply.
So when you talk about the downsides...is this with prolonged use or from just one cycle of test?

It can come from a single cycle. I've known guys whose hairline receded by more a significant noticeable amount in a single cycle. the red blood cell count and most of the other issues aren't likely to happen too badly in a single cycle. But...

Lets say at peak of this cycle, including water weight and fat you manage to hit 170-175. After pct and a few months later, you are back on the scale at somewhere from 158-165 lets just say. You're going to look back at it and say "I didn't have any big deal side effects, and it felt good to be at 170" and do it over again. Look around here on this board, see how many guys have run 8+ cycles, and see how few of them are really all that big. There are guys who 8 cycles + 3 years later are back at what they started at.

There is a sort of addictive nature to the steroids, not a physical addiction but a mental one. So thinking "i'm just going to do this one, and its no big deal" really doesn't seem to work out. Thats a large piece of why its so important to get as much workout routine and diet knowledge and get as large as is realistically possible naturally before starting steroids. The more of that knowledge you have, the more likely you are to retain more of your gains longer term.

 

[DCLibra]

In terms of my test levels after, do i just do pct and generally I should be fine? or am I really changing everything that much?
As for hairline, im not prone to that in my family so i dont think it would affect me...from what I understand it only affects those that are prone to it?

Part of me is thinking do i just give it up altogether? I dont want to screw myself up permanently. I just thought I could do this cycle and see if It gave me some gains that i could keep. By doing test and arimidex and then doing nolvedex for pct, you think I can be ok and just go back to where I was before with my natural testosterone? I guess Im worried now that Im causing more problems for my body by doing this cycle.

 

[DCLibra]

and what should I expect from this cycle of test? should expect 10-20 pounds and increased muscle? Will it make me look fat? generally a lean build here. The reason for the tren was to help with cutting, so not sure without the tren how I should expect to look just on test....

 

[EasyEJL]

In terms of my test levels after, do i just do pct and generally I should be fine? or am I really changing everything that much?
As for hairline, im not prone to that in my family so i dont think it would affect me...from what I understand it only affects those that are prone to it?

Part of me is thinking do i just give it up altogether? I dont want to screw myself up permanently. I just thought I could do this cycle and see if It gave me some gains that i could keep. By doing test and arimidex and then doing nolvedex for pct, you think I can be ok and just go back to where I was before with my natural testosterone? I guess Im worried now that Im causing more problems for my body by doing this cycle.

and what should I expect from this cycle of test? should expect 10-20 pounds and increased muscle? Will it make me look fat? generally a lean build here. The reason for the tren was to help with cutting, so not sure without the tren how I should expect to look just on test....

In terms of your test level after, most guys come back fine, some come back lower. How much lower is toss a coin. If you didn't get full bloodwork for hormone levels at any point recently before the cycle, you'll of course never be able to tell. There are guys here who after one cycle had levels considerably lower than precycle. Odds are you'll be ok, but lets say theres a 5-10% chance your levels will be somewhat lower after PCT.

As far as hairline, if you don't have it in your family you should be ok, but still no guarantees.

First time test cycle, i've seen anywhere from 4-30lbs of gains. Note thats pounds of gains, not pounds of muscle. With you taking arimidex, there won't be much water weight. And in the end, how much you gain is more dictated by how you eat during the cycle, same with how much is fat vs how much is muscle. I'd say its very unlikely that in 10 weeks you would get more than 10-15lbs of actual muscle out of the cycle at best. And odds are you'll end up with somewhat less.

In terms of stopping, I'd overall think its better for you to stop, spend the next 6 months working on your diet and training. I'd be willing to bet you could easily put on 10lbs in that time, and if you still want to run a cycle after you'd get way better results.

 

[gamer2be08]

How did you rep up so fast? And only 13 posts lol..

 

[DCLibra]

So in terms of getting my levels back up after, is it just a matter of Nolvadex and/or HCG? I know its diet and other things but in terms of pharmaceuticals, should that do it? and if it doesnt, have I permanently ruined myself?

Also, if I stop now, after three shots, do I need to take anything in terms of PCT at this point?

 

[DCLibra]

gamer...I guess I have the midas touch....lol...someone gave them to me. I dont know how this all works. One day they're not there, the next day they are...who knows...

 

[EasyEJL]

pretty well for getting levels back up after nolva or clomid or hcg should work. If it doesn't come back to where it was right away, it may still slowly come back higher after, or not. Without good blood tests beforehand there is no way to tell where you were, so even if you get tests after there is no telling.

At 1 week in you should pretty well come back naturally within a few weeks afterwards.

 

[DCLibra]

Thanks...well I did have levels of 600 like 2 years when i had a random test...thats all I know...

 

[EasyEJL]

Yeah, see its fairly critical to have within last 6 months at least

Total Test
Free Test
SHBG
LH
FSH
Estradiol

also helpful are
DHT
PSA
theres a few others too that are momentarily escaping me

To be able to look at the numbers after PCT and tell where you really are at.

 

[DCLibra]

well obviously too late now and I didnt know how to go in and just ask for a test like this at random and actually be given it.

 

[DCLibra]

Also, if I stop my testosterone after 3 shots of 100mgs each this past week, do i need to do PCT? And when would be a sufficient time to go then have blood work done to actually see where I would have been say before these three shots?

 

[EasyEJL]

I'd probably say you don't need a pct after three shots, although it wouldn't be totally harmful to do a 1 week of light pct. I'd honestly say wait as long as 3 months before getting a test to let everything come back into natural balance

 

[hugry4more]

its not "after pct" its any long term amount of time. If he can't eat enough to gain a single pound (whether fat or muscle) over 155 then once the cycle is over, he's going to slowly drop back to 155. Thats just simple caloric math.

dido

 

[DCLibra]

thanks guys

 

[DCLibra]

Decided top go ahead and stay with the test and skip the tren. My workouts are going really well, so is the diet and Ive put on 5 pounds already! So im going to run the cycle for the full 10 weeks and see where it goes.