Bad News...

[MikeGfilms]

Ok well let me start off by telling you the cycle. I ran M-Drol 20/20/20/20 and PCT was Nolva at 40/30/20. I used Milk Thistle throughout the cycle and PCT. Im 21. I gained 16lb off the cycle and kept 13 after PCT. Im now weighing 186.

So i go to the doctors about a week and a half ago for a check up, and she said that my liver seemed a little enlarged. She asked about my family history again and i told her that on my moms side both my grandparents had bladder cancer and on my dads side there alot of the males had liver problems (uncle had a liver transplant) mostly due to alcohol (dad is an alcoholic). She set me up for a blood test to make sure my liver was alright. She also had my Test levels checked, Cholesterol, Estrogen, and Kidneys. I got the call today from her and she said that my liver enzymes were elevated, Test was pretty low, estrogen was high, and cholesterol was pretty bad.

Im going to be stopping by soon to try and get the exact numbers for everything and post them on here. Also, I am going to the endo tmrw to get checked out because of the results. I am thinking about getting on a ton of liver/kidney supports along with a bunch of natty test boosters. What do you all think about that idea? Also, Which test boosters would you recommend?


Thanks,
Mike

 

[deadaim]

You could **** with her and run clomid/nolva so your test shoots up ridiculously haha.

But on a real note, thats your doctor, just be honest. If they investigate your bloodwork under the assumption your NOT taking or have ever taken steroids, they could misread your panel and start treating you for something you do not have.

You can even lie and say you thought it was a supplement, and took nolva after you realized what you took and asked for help on the internet.

 

[UnrealMachine]

yeah doctors have to be confidential, tell the truth, besides it's an OTC product. No big deal, those problems are what one would expect right after coming out of a PCT, it'll take a little longer to stabilize. I think if you did a more comprehensive PCT though your test wouldn't be as low.

 

[MikeGfilms]

Alright thanks for the input. Ill let the endo know tmrw exactly what i was taking. If i can get teh exact numbers today ill put em to see the real damage done lol.

 

[reptone]

yeah doctors have to be confidential, tell the truth, besides it's an OTC product. No big deal, those problems are what one would expect right after coming out of a PCT, it'll take a little longer to stabilize. I think if you did a more comprehensive PCT though your test wouldn't be as low.

True, Drs have to confidential but they also have to be honest and put it on the chart. Your insurance company can get that at any time. Should you have liver issues down the line and they see you took M Drol(especially if it gets banned by then) they can deny any claim for treatments. Just something to keep in mind. Maybe you tell her you took "something" but not necessarily M Drol. Maybe Prime or something that will never be at the banning stage.

 

[urbanski]

too long on mdrol, too short on PCT. get some clomid and a test booster plus an AI and stay on for 4weeks.

 

[crazyfool405]

say everything you took has to be OFF the record, can haunt you later down the line.

 

[MikeGfilms]

True, Drs have to confidential but they also have to be honest and put it on the chart. Your insurance company can get that at any time. Should you have liver issues down the line and they see you took M Drol(especially if it gets banned by then) they can deny any claim for treatments. Just something to keep in mind. Maybe you tell her you took "something" but not necessarily M Drol. Maybe Prime or something that will never be at the banning stage.

Wow thats something i never really put into consideration...thats wierd because my dad was jus declined extra life insurance due to his liver. His ALT (i think it was ALT) came back at 248. So maybe ill just say i took Hydroxycut or something that can cause liver damage?

 

[MikeGfilms]

say everything you took has to be OFF the record, can haunt you later down the line.

Youre allowed to do that?

 

[crazyfool405]

Youre allowed to do that?

i do that with my doctor so he knows what im on nd can properly treat me for whatever.

this way later down in line for life insurance purposes they cant look back and be like... hes high risk blah blah because he was on this, this, this, and this.

 

[RAZORBACK09]

Guess my reply didn't go through, internet timed out... ANYWAY

Problem with taking a nat. test booster is that you won't know your true levels, depending on how long you've been off cycle, if you have a low test count you may want to do something about that.

If you have a family history of liver problems, you should have been taking liver supps on cycle, but now would be a good time.

Doctors do have to be confidential, but they do have to report to insurance companies. As far as saying "off record" I don't think that would hold up, because then the doctor is lying to the insurance saying its something else, meaning they could be sued if the insurance ever found out, a risk a doctor is willing to take? Most likely not.

If I were you, i'd wait it out a bit and see if my levels went back to normal, you do not want to admit to a doctor you did AAS unless you REALLY have it, and saying its something else is a horrible idea because then your being treated for something you don't even have which is a waste of time and money.

 

[crazyfool405]

off the record means they will not chart it... its your right.

 

[MikeGfilms]

HOLY SH$T I just got the results faxed to me...

Total Testosterone (LC/MS/MS) 15 *WTFFFFFFFFF!!!!
Estradiol 9 * Doctor circled number, there isnt a range tho.

Total Cholesterol 165
HDL 45
Triglycerides 47
LDL 111 *Noted as High

Glucose 80
Urea Nitrogen 22 *Noted as High
Creatinine 0.79
Bun/Creatinine 28 *Noted As High
Sodium 140
Potassium 5.1 *5.1 is the highest number before noted as high
Total Protein 7.6
AST 28
ALT 40

Sex Hormone Binding
Globulin
SHBG 5 *noted as low

White Blood Cell Count 7.6
Red Blood Cell Count 4.87
Hemogloblin 14
RDW 16 *Noted as High
DHEA Sulfate 199



Theres a ton more of stuff, just dont really know what it all means/dont feel like writing everything out

 

[deadaim]

Not to mention your AST and ALT are at the top of the normal range.

Your PCT was bunk, has to be. No LH?

 

[deadaim]

For reference your total testosterone would be at the high end range for a 8-9 year old boy. Not joking.

and your SHBG is under the lowest number for a normal range. Estradiol is also in the 8-9 year old boy range.

 

[Libertarian]

How long post cycle did you get blood work?

I would also suggest NOT mentioning steroid use. Medical records aren't as "private" as many people think and you should try to avoid being flagged as a "steroid abuser".

 

[celc5]

my opinion is that this happens ALL THE TIME with superdrol. I believe that very few recover during pct from this compound, even with what we'd all consider to be reasonable pct choices

My opinion is also that your liver enzymes and cholesterol will recover with time, little by little. Mine did.

In regards to the medical records, many good points have been made. Something to consider is that your insurance company probably is not going to be seeing your physician's notes. Probably just the charge sheet or online bill.

 

[deadaim]

my opinion is that this happens ALL THE TIME with superdrol. I believe that very few recover during pct from this compound, even with what we'd all consider to be reasonable pct choices

My opinion is also that your liver enzymes and cholesterol will recover with time, little by little. Mine did.

Thank you... STOP TAKING SUPERDROL KIDS !!! Save it for unreal machine

 

[MikeGfilms]

Thank you... STOP TAKING SUPERDROL KIDS !!! Save it for unreal machine

1st off im not a kid...2nd if all your here to do is bash and suck up to unreal i think its time you left this thread. (no offense to unreal)

 

[Zero V]

Thank you... STOP TAKING SUPERDROL KIDS !!! Save it for unreal machine

I believe before anyone even starts Orals, they should accept the possibility they will likely need HRT down the road...

I am a firm believe in "damage over time" mechanics. Such as what diet can do to a persons body over years, so too can PH/DS/AAS and they will not know until much later.

In all honesty, PH/DS are not that old and I think the effects of all these users we have had in the last 6 years alone will show up in 10 years and be pretty bad. That being said HRT doesnt seem so horrible. Gives you freedom to cycle after that as much as you want lol :sgrin:

Then again many people use steroids their entire lives and do pretty well. I duno.

off the record means they will not chart it... its your right.

This will be good to keep in mind, good info.

 

[MikeGfilms]

Yea i know idk wtf is up with my test levels. I dont feel shutdown or anything.

Nolva was real, Got it from legit Research company.
I dont see LH, would it be under anything else?

Also, What is SHBG?

Im still really nervous about the doctor thing with the insurance companies...Im not looking to mess anything up...especially down the road.

 

[deadaim]

You and me are the same age, and are definitely kids. My unreal superdrol reference was because I told someone not to take SD and unreal said "good more for me".

If this is your attitude, I no longer care, nor wish to provide you help or support with your terrible terrible blood work.

Although i sincerely hope you avoid any acute hepatitis or cirrhosis like you mentioned your family members having in the past.

 

[Zero V]

Yea i know idk wtf is up with my test levels. I dont feel shutdown or anything.



I dont see LH, would it be under anything else?

Also, What is SHBG?

Im still really nervous about the doctor thing with the insurance companies...Im not looking to mess anything up...especially down the road.

SHBH =sex hormone binding gobulin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_hormone-binding_globulin

As for insurance, do as mentioned say its for off the record. Reason this out, why would she mess up you and your insurance when as long as you are her patient and you have insurance she gets a lil ride on the money train for treating you?

 

[MikeGfilms]

SHBH =sex hormone binding gobulin


As for insurance, do as mentioned say its for off the record. Reason this out, why would she mess up you and your insurance when as long as you are her patient and you have insurance she gets a lil ride on the money train for treating you?

Lol I just looked that up on wikipedia too.

Hmm thats true, but i know if your a smoker, etc the insurance companies pick that up..so thats another thing to think about. im sure steroid use wont be too far off from smoking, etc. But i will deff say off the record.

 

[MikeGfilms]

You and me are the same age, and are definitely kids. My unreal superdrol reference was because I told someone not to take SD and unreal said "good more for me".

If this is your attitude, I no longer care, nor wish to provide you help or support with your terrible terrible blood work.

Although i sincerely hope you avoid any acute hepatitis or cirrhosis like you mentioned your family members having in the past.

Ops sorry i didnt realize you were the one who wrote about the test and est in the earlier post. Thought you only posted the 2nd one. Well thanks for the help and care of my long term conditions.

 

[nosnmiveins]

Lol I just looked that up on wikipedia too.

Hmm thats true, but i know if your a smoker, etc the insurance companies pick that up..so thats another thing to think about. im sure steroid use wont be too far off from smoking, etc. But i will deff say off the record.

u cant just say "off the record" and ur free and clear....make sure the doctor acknowledges that and is OK with it.

personally id just say i took a supplement i bought from the store. u dont have to say a damn thing about steroids

 

[MikeGfilms]

u cant just say "off the record" and ur free and clear....make sure the doctor acknowledges that and is OK with it.

personally id just say i took a supplement i bought from the store. u dont have to say a damn thing about steroids

This was the exact way i had in mind. i just know know hes going to questiong the hell out of me about which one it was, and that is where idk what i should say.

 

[MikeGfilms]

BTW i have been off cycle (PCT) for about 2- 2 1/2 weeks

 

[nosnmiveins]

This was the exact way i had in mind. i just know know hes going to questiong the hell out of me about which one it was, and that is where idk what i should say.

docs usually dont know protein powder from vitamin C when it comes to supplements. if u say "i took superdrol" the doc is going to look at u like ur an alien. so dont even bother unless he asks specifically the name of it

 

[bigzach1234]

your nolva was fake bro.. sorry to tell u.. im assuming u just stopped it recently

 

[MikeGfilms]

your nolva was fake bro.. sorry to tell u.. im assuming u just stopped it recently

I know for a fact it wasnt. I researched on them alot before i bought. I read tons of reviews about them and everyone said they loved it and theyre g2g.

So idk what the hell happenedwith the test levels. Im going to talk to the endo tmrw and depending on what he says i might just do a stack of say..

Clomid 100/100/50/50
Toco 8 1/1/1/1
IDS Post Cycle Tabs 3/2/2/1 (I have a box laying around)

 

[crazyfool405]

u cant just say "off the record" and ur free and clear....make sure the doctor acknowledges that and is OK with it.
personally id just say i took a supplement i bought from the store. u dont have to say a damn thing about steroids

very true, mine doesnt question me,

if they say no its not off the record, then id say good luck finding out whats wrong with me or say... OK thanks for your time, (then just leave and get a new doctor)

 

[chocolatemilk]

Even if the nolva was bunk, isn't one month after a SD cycle not enough for the body to reach homeostasis on it's own? I mean is he suppose to have normal test levels by now or something?

 

[deadaim]

Even if the nolva was bunk, isn't one month after a SD cycle not enough for the body to reach homeostasis on it's own? I mean is he suppose to have normal test levels by now or something?

Four months would yield a pretty close to normal reading if everything goes right.

Thats with tren and deca from a study I read. SD could be more supressive tho.

 

[chocolatemilk]

Yea then I don't think it's time to panic or tell your doctor anything. This is normal if the nolva was bunk, and if it wasn't, it's still to early to go and tell the doc you were on steroids. Take the recommended supps for now for a few months with occasional blood tests and let your body take care of itself slowly. You're young, your body shouldn't have too much of a tough time doing so.

 

[deadaim]

Run a PCT , get private blood work done, its probably cheaper anyway. when **** is in the normal ranges , then hit up your doctor (that will be in 2 months)

 

[RAZORBACK09]

Even if the nolva was bunk, isn't one month after a SD cycle not enough for the body to reach homeostasis on it's own? I mean is he suppose to have normal test levels by now or something?

Yeah most say between 2-4 months is when levels will go back to normal, but a lot of factors can play into this.

 

[MikeGfilms]

Alright thanks alot everyone for the help. When i saw the test levels i just freaked out lol. The wierd thing is, even with the low test levels i havent been losing any mass, putting on fat, or having any side effects of being shut down. Ill talk to the endo tmrw and prolly order some clomid and Toco8 tmrw as well. (PP is having a huge sale right now, check it all out!)

 

[Zero V]

the blood work could also be a little goofy.

Now also take into account for years body builders did not even use a PCT. Your body can recover from alot, it could just take longer. I would look at Primordial Performances Testosterone Recovery Stack, people seemed to love it, especially the Toco-8. It should be all around healthy and boosting for your body during this time.

 

[Libertarian]

I believe before anyone even starts Orals, they should accept the possibility they will likely need HRT down the road...

I am a firm believe in "damage over time" mechanics. Such as what diet can do to a persons body over years, so too can PH/DS/AAS and they will not know until much later.

In all honesty, PH/DS are not that old and I think the effects of all these users we have had in the last 6 years alone will show up in 10 years and be pretty bad. That being said HRT doesnt seem so horrible. Gives you freedom to cycle after that as much as you want lol :sgrin:

Then again many people use steroids their entire lives and do pretty well. I duno.



This will be good to keep in mind, good info.

1. I think you're being quite extreme. Running orals in a responsible manner (proper cycle duration, time off, and PCT) won't put you in a situation where you are "likely" to be on HRT one day. Educated steroid use, even long term, doesn't necessarily equate to permanent damage. There are people who have been cycling for years and have higher natural Test levels than before they ever touched AAS.

2. You probably already know this, but being on HRT doesn't provide license to run whatever AAS you want. Even if you're not running liver toxic orals there are still various health considerations that need to be taken seriously if running anything other than a "maintenance dose" of Testosterone for long periods of time. Often times guys who are on HRT spend about the same amount of time "on" as other guys do and cruise on ~100mg/week in between.

 

[Zero V]

1. I think you're being quite extreme. Running orals in a responsible manner (proper cycle duration, time off, and PCT) won't put you in a situation where you are "likely" to be on HRT one day. Educated steroid use, even long term, doesn't necessarily equate to permanent damage. There are people who have been cycling for years and have higher natural Test levels than before they ever touched AAS.

2. You probably already know this, but being on HRT doesn't provide license to run whatever AAS you want. Even if you're not running liver toxic orals there are still various health considerations that need to be taken seriously if running anything other than a "maintenance dose" of Testosterone for long periods of time. Often times guys who are on HRT spend about the same amount of time "on" as other guys do and cruise on ~100mg/week in between.

To 1. I agree, I simply meant you should be prepared to accept the risk and consequences that your chances of such things are much higher and Mr. Joe who never touched anything.

But to add to that how many people do we have getting blood work 10-15 years after superdrol at the moment...oh, zero....this is a new field we are walking in.

Responsibility of the user matters greatly, but somethings we simply cannot foresee.

To 2(tutu!). And by that I meant you dont have to worry about shutdown the same way you did before. PH/DS still carry toxicity risks as well as all orals and many PCT products. Throw in having gyno surgery done for the hell of it, and dont go too stupid and your kinda in it for the long haul.

If you are on HRT you are likely seeing a doctor relatively regularly, which means your probably getting everything checked. So you are also keeping tabs.

Its really just the "most sensible" position to be in to run steroid cycles...No one ever NEEDS to run anything, but if your already "on" for life, might as well take advantage of it. Just dont get stupid and pin a gram a week for an entire year....why do I have the feeling thats been/is being done somewhere

 

[Libertarian]

Well beyond liver toxicity, there are other concerns if you are on HRT as well. Blood pressure, lipids, prostate, etc. Plus, problems with fertility can arise as well. Most guys on HRT will have no problem having a kid, especially with a little HMG & hCG. But, it is possible to permanently sterilize yourself if you're not careful.

 

[Jasen]

HEY is there a site for private blood panel testing?

also on private not is there a site that is able to test out gear for me? to see if it is legit?

 

[MikeGfilms]

the blood work could also be a little goofy.

Now also take into account for years body builders did not even use a PCT. Your body can recover from alot, it could just take longer. I would look at Primordial Performances Testosterone Recovery Stack, people seemed to love it, especially the Toco-8. It should be all around healthy and boosting for your body during this time.

I just got back from the endo today and he said that with a total test of 15 i wouldnt be able to get an erection or anything, which i can. So therefore he thinks it was the lab that messed it up (he also said that the lab i was sent to inst a very good one :damnit. Im going to have LabCorp do it sometime this week, only problem is that the results take about 3 weeks to come back. The other lab was only 1 week :sad3:.

I plan on ordering Toco-8 today or tmrw. I started taking the post cycle tabs yesterday, and can already fell an increase in libido (not that i had a problem with it before), but that is prolly due to the Aspire in it.

 

[epilogue]

Yeah I agree that the lab was screwed up somehow... 15 is insanely low.. I don't think any compound could be that supressive.

 

[MikeGfilms]

Yeah I agree that the lab was screwed up somehow... 15 is insanely low.. I don't think any compound could be that supressive.

I wouldnt say that, Ive herd of ppl having complete shutdown from superdrol, tren, etc

 

[celc5]

Yeah I agree that the lab was screwed up somehow... 15 is insanely low.. I don't think any compound could be that supressive.

I disagree. Just like in my last post, my opinion is that this happens all the time with SD.

 

[SouthernCharm]

Did you have blood work done PRIOR to running the cycle? Not really that it matters now but it's something you could compare to when you get another blood test done in a couple of months.

 

[Movin_weight]

Agreed
Either test was messed up or nolva was bunk.
Just cuz a site is legit doesn't mean they dont mess up batches.
I have been burned by sites that sent me legit stuff the time before

 

[celc5]

Just cuz a site is legit doesn't mean they dont mess up batches

good point. I always do my homework if it's been a while since I last ordered... we'd never know if it's the same batch or not.