AAS.. Different effects on different people?

[Blatalian]

Hey what's up bro's.

I've been wondering about something...
It seems that everyone predominantly agrees that different AAS's and dosages have different effects on people.

Personally... I've completed two cycles with absolutely... I repeat absolutely no results! I know that the gear could not have been fake...

Now I understand that my diet isn't in check, but I should have seen some results right? The only results that I noticed were increased vascularity and hardness.. (but not much) and that only happened after I added winny tabs.

The truth is that me not gaining size is the least of my disappointments...
I gaind no strength.. in fact I've lost strength; and I've gained no intensity in the gym... in fact I find it harder to go to the gym when I'm on cycle....

Here's my theory:
My natural Test. levels were much higher than any exoganeous test from the cycle.

I know... it sounds very unlikely.. but it's the only reasonable conclusion that I've been able to come up with.

What do you guy's think?

 

[jjjd]

it would help if you let us know what the cycles WERE

 

[size]

What did you cycles look like? How do you know it was not fake?


Moving on, people often get the wrong impression about AAS. For some lucky individuals, they need very little, can train poorly, and have a crappy diet and still grow. Unfortunately, these individuals are few and far between.
My guess is that you, like many others, have far to great of expectations from AAS. Simply taking them is not enough for most people. You still need to train and eat well to really make results.

 

[Blatalian]

What did you cycles look like? How do you know it was not fake?


Moving on, people often get the wrong impression about AAS. For some lucky individuals, they need very little, can train poorly, and have a crappy diet and still grow. Unfortunately, these individuals are few and far between.
My guess is that you, like many others, have far to great of expectations from AAS. Simply taking them is not enough for most people. You still need to train and eat well to really make results.

My cycles have generally been a huge cluster ****!
The reason why is because after a while of something not working I'll add something to the mix.

I would consider my genetics to be above average though... I should have made some gains... before I even started AAS I gained 50 lbs in approx. 6 months..

 

[jjjd]

you still have not said what the cycles WERE

 

[sage]

changing the look of your cycle during your run can lead to some issues bro. not as bad as not having all your cycle and post cycle needs before starting but one should set a cycle and really try to stick with it. As far as and individual's response to anabolic steriods always varies. As mentioned, some will have a dramatic reaction to the increase in testosterone production, etc. while others might not show such great change. Diet and Training always are the top two factors to one's success for a cycle. Your anabolics might have been fakes.... who knows. All I'm saying is that you should get your diet and training in tip top shape and work with those two before adding more and more compounds to your cycles and uping your dosage.
Sage

 

[size]

Diet and training are crucial.

After my last cycle, I concluded that I essentially did not make advancements. I had to look at my situation and ask myself "why". I recognized that I was no longer using AAS properly; I was using them as a crutch. Consequently, I completed stopped using them and will not again until I feel that everything is in proper condition(ie diet, training, dedication, mindset, etc). This was 10 months ago.

 

[lifted]

Diet and training are crucial.

After my last cycle, I concluded that I essentially did not make advancements. I had to look at my situation and ask myself "why". I recognized that I was no longer using AAS properly; I was using them as a crutch. Consequently, I completed stopped using them and will not again until I feel that everything is in proper condition(ie diet, training, dedication, mindset, etc). This was 10 months ago.

By crutch do you mean that you used AAS to replace things such as more work on your diet/training regimes? If so, I can see how that would be a problem. I have a problem that if I even start to slack off just a little bit, it'll turn into a huge procrastinating cycle in which leaves me with a lot of wasted time no doubt...as well as wasted money too...

 

[Blatalian]

it would help if you let us know what the cycles WERE

I can't tell you the lexact ength and dosages of my cycle because.. I honestly can't remember precisely...But I can tell you the ingredients of my cycle:

!st Cycle:
Test Enanthate
Primobolan
Anavar

later in the cycle:
Tren Acetate
Winny

2nd Cycle (Current):
Tren Acetate (75 mg every day)
Winny (50 MG every day)
Test Enanthate

Later in cycle:
Deca (300 MG per week)
Primobolan (300 MG per week)
Test Prop (700 MG per week)
EQ (300 MG per week)

That's about is as far as I can remember...
Some retarded **** right??


After the end of this cycle I gonna start a post cycle consisting of IGF LR3 and PGF2-a (transdermal and injections)

 

[lifted]

I think there's a good chance your stuff was bunk bro. Did you/are you noticing any sides? I can't imagine you not noticing ANYTHING off that amount of gear bro...

 

[raybravo]

well , like already said , sad to see that u got NO results , but then , this is just a situation where u have to stop steroids for a while , cover all other things :
1) get a good trainer to write out a nice routine for you and stick to it and keep in touch with him( dc , ironaddict and others ) .
2)again , get someone to do your diet for you and stick to it .
3)simultaneously , work on getting ur system back to normal , thats a lot of things uve used for ur first 2 cycles , and uve used primo and anavar as well , almost 90 % of the time , they are fake , u wont believe how many " vets " i have seen selling fakes of these products , its just sick ! so dont use those 2 again .
4)next time , please dont stack products haphazardly like u have done and are going to do, using pgf-2 and igf-1 already ? ! get someone to write out cycles for u , even if all this means spending money , atleast u will see results ? if u can get the same results in 4-5 cycles using a trainer , dietician etc , isnt that smarter than doing 12 odd cycles by urself for the same results and much more effect on health , loss of cash etc ? i'd think so !
anyway , i hope u take what ive said the right way and maybe u grow is my sincere desire .

 

[Blatalian]

I think there's a good chance your stuff was bunk bro. Did you/are you noticing any sides? I can't imagine you not noticing ANYTHING off that amount of gear bro...

Yea... I did get side effects....
Acne. .. shrunkin nuts...loss of libedo... the usual...

Thanks for the solid advice raybravo... I'll certainly take it into consideration.

 

[ironviking]

You said your diet was not in check, my guess is your workout could have been better also. I remember on one of your posts you added more volume because you were on cycle; that is a mistake a lot of guys make some people can handle it most cant. You said you lost intensity and drive in the gym well that is a sign of overtraining and your diet was not correct; steroids or not bad diet and overtraining is a definite road to failure.

I'm not trying to flame in anyway I'm just saying why would you spend the money on gear then take a needle and inject yourself, taking many chances in the process, and not do everything else as correctly as you possibly can. Most bro's when on cycle take way better care of themselves and eat better than normal just cause they dont want to waste thier gear.

Remember diet, training, and rest are the keys to growth, steroids are just a really nice supplement.

 

[size]

By crutch do you mean that you used AAS to replace things such as more work on your diet/training regimes? If so, I can see how that would be a problem.

Yes. I noticed that I was using AAS as a method for me to be less dedicated in other areas. The results were that I did not make gains but I did not lose any despite my lack of dedication. Consequently, I stopped using.

 

[morfiend]

before I even started AAS I gained 50 lbs in approx. 6 months..

mostly fat?

 

[Skye]

What did you cycles look like? How do you know it was not fake?


Moving on, people often get the wrong impression about AAS. For some lucky individuals, they need very little, can train poorly, and have a crappy diet and still grow. Unfortunately, these individuals are few and far between.
My guess is that you, like many others, have far to great of expectations from AAS. Simply taking them is not enough for most people. You still need to train and eat well to really make results.

And some don't responed to gear well at all. well some gear that is. When I first tried test cyp I was so supprised that I actually stripped the ester off it so that I could check both the base melting point and solubility as well as the origional gear. On the other hand I am over 300lb and can run fina at 50mg ed and see results so I am finding it hard to believe that you gained nothing even as badly ran as you did it. So I am thinking that at least some of your gear is bunk.

I can also tell you that everyone is right on about the diet. I am diabetic and really can't eat like I should to gain a lot on a cycle. That with the above has made this a long and slow process but I am getting there mostly by displine.

As far as advice I have nothing to add that would improve on whats given

 

[Blatalian]

mostly fat?

No.... Not at all....
My pics are in the member section.. and that was months ago....

 

[Blatalian]

I am 5'11 @ 225 lbs.......I have run Tren at 75 to 100 mgs Every day and seen absolutely NO results...(Maybe increased vascularity)....

I'm abosolutely positive that at least some of the AAS I took was legit because most of it I converted from FinaPlix and Component-H carteridges.

There's no way that that could have been faked....
The other AAS I got has been from MS Labs... and they are a well known legit source.


I'm not trying to prove you all wrong .. I'm just trying to explain that there is something wrong....My diet and training has not been that off to the point that I should see no gains..

As I said in the beginning of the post .... maybe my natural test levels are higher than I'm currently supplementing with...

Can someone disprove this theory?

 

[size]

As I said in the beginning of the post .... maybe my natural test levels are higher than I'm currently supplementing with...

Can someone disprove this theory?

I can't disprove it but this extremely unlikely. If you were taking 250mg of test weekly, then you are well above what yur body produces.

 

[lifted]

I am 5'11 @ 225 lbs.......I have run Tren at 75 to 100 mgs Every day and seen absolutely NO results...(Maybe increased vascularity)....

I'm abosolutely positive that at least some of the AAS I took was legit because most of it I converted from FinaPlix and Component-H carteridges.

There's no way that that could have been faked....
The other AAS I got has been from MS Labs... and they are a well known legit source.


I'm not trying to prove you all wrong .. I'm just trying to explain that there is something wrong....My diet and training has not been that off to the point that I should see no gains..

As I said in the beginning of the post .... maybe my natural test levels are higher than I'm currently supplementing with...

Can someone disprove this theory?

Bingo!! Therein lies the problem. What batch number is your test from MS? Read up on my thread titled "cycle decisions and updates" and you will see that myself and others have had problems w/ that particular batch. Also, other bros on other boards that I have talked to are having hte same problems as well as some ex-mods...they're just too weeny to say it out in fron of everyone.

Also, I have heard WAY too many people not having results w./ their conversions, sometimes they just don't work bro....thats a fact that if you do a search on some random boards, you'll find more than enough people ranting about hte same things with there homebrews...

If you want more info about the batch numbers, etc. PM me form my secure e-mail addy....

 

[Matthew D]

Trust me.. if I were having problems with a certain batch of products I would be telling you guys...

 

[jweave23]

I really think you need to stop using gear for awhile and get back to baseline before you even comtemplate using again.

You should know what you need to do, get that diet and training in check first, just do it!! If you cannot do this you should not be using gear IMO. You think you're diet and training aren't off enough to not see results, but either they are or you have some fake gear, likely both. I highly doubt your phsyiology is that different from most human males that you are producing huge amounts of natty test and are not replacing it.

I can imagine your frustration, but you have to step back, get off gear, and rethink things. As raybravo suggested, maybe you should get someone to do you rdiet/training for you (hell Bobo just opened up shop, IA, DC, and SC are around). Good luck to you and be smart....stop wasting your time and money and do what you need to do.

 

[DragonRider]

Hey what's up bro's.

I've been wondering about something...
It seems that everyone predominantly agrees that different AAS's and dosages have different effects on people.

Personally... I've completed two cycles with absolutely... I repeat absolutely no results! I know that the gear could not have been fake...

What do you guy's think?

I think you hit the nail on the head. Different people respond differently.
My strength doesn't improve that much either and I'm doing more than 1 gram a week of test. I've also done the tren.
I know my stuff is good because I get the side effects (acne, testicular shrinkage, and with tren, wicked night sweats and insomnia), but I do not get the strength increases everyone talks about. It is very frustrating.

 

[nsruffryder34]

Heres what we need to remember in these types of circumstances, AAS are very complex substances scientifically. Even today, we do not fully understand how each of these chemicals works and why each substance has its own effect. Steroids work mainly thorugh a process called gene transcription, which means the steroid molecule activates a receptor, which then attaches to the DNA molecule, now without going any further because it does get a little complex, we need to understande how this all comes together. Now, no person has the same DNA as anyone else, so there really is no way of determineing how each substance will effect a particular person. We can only make educated guesses by interpretting the data collected. Remember the substances we are using today were all designed back in the day of AAS research (1960s) when we ahd little or no information on DNA, but if we started AAS research today (which is highly unlikely) we could probably find great compunds that would have little or no androgenic prop. (side Effects) and would be highly anabolic. We need to take these types of things into consideration when we determine if a substance works or not, or how one works, because no substnace is going to work EXACTLY the same for each person, they may be close, but not exact, and there will be circumstances when they work totally different. I just think this is soemthing everyone fails to realize when it comes to AAS....

 

[jweave23]

I think you hit the nail on the head. Different people respond differently.
My strength doesn't improve that much either and I'm doing more than 1 gram a week of test. I've also done the tren.
I know my stuff is good because I get the side effects (acne, testicular shrinkage, and with tren, wicked night sweats and insomnia), but I do not get the strength increases everyone talks about. It is very frustrating.

1. The occurance of common side effects are not a way to know if you're stuff is good. You could have underdosed test, or even a different compound. Not sure about the tren, but unless you have a batch check done how can you really be sure?

2. How is your diet?

I'm simply saying I think zero response from AAS is very rare IF diet and training are in order. Some people will of course have different reactions, but I think many fail to realize how many variables are in the equations for size and strength. So often do we see someone who has neglected or needs to adjust one or two things to make cycles work for them. I really don't know many people at all who don't notice much from over a gram of test and tren, IF their diet and training are in check.

 

[DragonRider]

1. The occurance of common side effects are not a way to know if you're stuff is good. You could have underdosed test, or even a different compound. Not sure about the tren, but unless you have a batch check done how can you really be sure?

I make my stuff myself in concentrations of 300mg/ml.

2. How is your diet?

I'm 46 and I've been working out and studying/fine tuning diet for 28 years.

I'm simply saying I think zero response from AAS is very rare IF diet and training are in order. Some people will of course have different reactions, but I think many fail to realize how many variables are in the equations for size and strength. So often do we see someone who has neglected or needs to adjust one or two things to make cycles work for them. I really don't know many people at all who don't notice much from over a gram of test and tren, IF their diet and training are in check.

Just to clarify, I've done Tren. Not at a gram but 75mg ED. It's the test that is over 1g.

 

[jweave23]

Just to clarify, I've done Tren. Not at a gram but 75mg ED. It's the test that is over 1g.

LOL yeah I figured that! I thought that might be taken that way when I typed it, but it meant over 1 gram of test + tren (amount not specified).

 

[serengo]

I am 5'11 @ 225 lbs.......I have run Tren at 75 to 100 mgs Every day and seen absolutely NO results...(Maybe increased vascularity)....

I'm abosolutely positive that at least some of the AAS I took was legit because most of it I converted from FinaPlix and Component-H carteridges.

There's no way that that could have been faked....
The other AAS I got has been from MS Labs... and they are a well known legit source.


I'm not trying to prove you all wrong .. I'm just trying to explain that there is something wrong....My diet and training has not been that off to the point that I should see no gains..

As I said in the beginning of the post .... maybe my natural test levels are higher than I'm currently supplementing with...

Can someone disprove this theory?

My last cycle all my mass gains halted as soon as I started tren, I ended the cycle at the weight I started. Having said that you can look at the results on the pic forum and see that there were definately quality gains. I have determined that tren simply jacks my metabolism to the point that I should use it when cutting only. Like you said, different effects for different people.

I'd reiterate what's been said about diet and training and then go for the simple effective B&B cycle of:
weeks 1-5 Dbol 30-35mg/day (optional)*
weeks 1-12 Test (cyp or enanth) 500mg/week
weeks 1-12 Deca 400mg/week
PCT I would go with Nolva only 3 weeks after last inject 40mg/day 2 weeks then 20mg/day 1 more week. HCG as needed.

* If you want to forego the orals you could use some test prop up front and on the backside of this cycle to get things started quickly for you.

 

[SteelersFan]

you can't go into these things without a solid game plan.

 

[lifted]

I'm bumpin' this to the top so I can further continue this topic.

If you read what I posted in this thread just a few months ago as compared to what I'm about to post now, you'll see why others didn't and simply cannot understand where our boy blatalian is/was coming from.

I've been on test prop for some time now and want to explain my experiences with my second cycle.

I had posted another thread titled "Losing size while on cycle". I then went to the docs as posted and no mention of what had really caused it. Well, after more strength/size loss, I've came to a well thought out conclusion....

At 700mg/week, and then lowering to 500/week, I've realized that my body reacts HORRIBLY to test alone. Now with this in mind, everybody knows that you get shutdown sometime or another while on. Put these two together and BAM...you've got your answer as to why this is happening....

Me and possibly Blatalian got shutdown with our drugs....now since our bodies don't react well to test alone (and in baltalians case any drugs) the reason we were losing weight/strength was because the test alone just isn't enough for our bodies to gain size/strength when our own is totally almost non-existant....Now you may think, "Well the synthetic test is making up for it, isn't it?" Well clearly no, it isn't...it seems that for some reason natty test and synthetic test do indeed have differences that would cause this to happen and the longer one would stay on, the more size/weight/strength fluctuations will occur. At the moment yet once again, I'm smaller/weaker than what I was before I jumped on and begun this cycle....so let this be a reminder to people...AAS will NOT work for everybody...

I will begin PCT in a few more days....and within a few more weeks, hopefully I can get back to where I started from...hehe..

I hope that I explained that well enough people....but this goes to show you that not everyone can use AAS with results nonetheless excellent results to boot....

***I wish I had more time to explain but I had to type that fast as i'm kinda bust y at the moment..

 

[jokefellah]

All depends on AR sensitivity/activity.. in some people it's poor and they even at high doses will not get good results.. the same way - one takes 20mg ephedrine and he's kickout and another one takes 60mg and just feel anything. I know many people that don't react on SAA. Bad luck, bro

 

[lifted]

Yep, that's about what it boils down to. I think that I'm done with using AAs in the future. The only thing I could think of would be to stack 3 or 4 different compounds at high ass doseages and see if I could get some results, but that would cost a shitload and it's just not worth it to me.

The only other thing that I have my eyes on is IGF-1, but I have bad luck with that to as diabetes runs in the family....

 

[jokefellah]

Try to stack dbol (30mg daily) with nandrolone (300-400mg) and if you wont grow on this stack you wont grow on anyone (Dan Duchaine). To avoid deca dick shot some test following 4th week. You can also upregulate AR with T3 but it isn't bread and butter. Anyway good luck. Dont forget about vitamins and minerals.. stick magnez with zinc and add some creatine. You should be fine, bro.

 

[lifted]

I've also thought about going off for a good while and start to make gains again naturally. Then while my hormones are back in check, I can use a high dose of test/bold suspension and cycle that for four weeks. That way when my natty T levels are just starting to get majorly supressed, I can get right back off, do my PCT and keep some gains.

With my first prop cycle, my gains were pretty good for the first four weeks or so. After that, not so good at all, and that's when I had a wrist injury and decided to come off, do a really short PCT, and then jump back on when my wrist got better. It turns out that I wasn't fully recovered yet (T-wise) and when I jumped back on, I just couldn't keep up with myself. So this seems like a logical answer to my problem.

 

[DragonRider]

I'm bumpin' this to the top so I can further continue this topic.
I hope that I explained that well enough people....but this goes to show you that not everyone can use AAS with results nonetheless excellent results to boot....

***I wish I had more time to explain but I had to type that fast as i'm kinda bust y at the moment..

I can hear it now. Well, that's just your opinion. Where are the top secret scientific double blind controlled studies?

Now if we could only get those who respond well to understand this and stop accusing non responders of having bunk gear or not knowing how to eat right.

 

[DragonRider]

Try to stack dbol (30mg daily) with nandrolone (300-400mg) and if you wont grow on this stack you wont grow on anyone (Dan Duchaine).

My last cycle was 1200mg a week of test cyp, 900mg a week of deca and 40mg a day of dbol for the first 4 weeks.
The results?
My bench went from 275 for 2 reps to 275 for 6 reps. Very big disappointment.

 

[Skye]

I am not sure on this at all guys. first off if your taking test yes it will suppress your natural test products, but your test leval never go below what they were before you started. so if your body does not react to test alone it's not going to react to your natural test ether. they are the same thing.

Now I didn't do well on test only ether ( I only really like it with EQ), I don't even need it for fina, fina works better then test for me regarding libido. But I still would not lose wieght on 700mg of test a week. My natural test was 256 (Blood test). Any test I take over that is likely to help gain or keep wieght.

I'm not doubting your stories here but I can't acept the conclusion as it is. Something else is wrong here, I can see one type of roid not working for some, but you can't be imuen to all types.

Just curous have you guys tried run just dbol for 50mg ed for a couple of week? that might be a test you can run, everybody will gain something on dbol even if its estrogen mitagated

 

[Matthew D]

I was thinking the same thing Skye.. It does not make any sense to me that Jergo would be lossing weight on a dosage that is much higher than you normal production of test... I am just thinking out loud, Jergo, but diet is in check, training, and rest right? Are you getting a good night's sleep? Anyone else think of anything else that might be wrong?

 

[Brodus]

I don't know, Jergo, sounds like you're either:

1. Using bunk gear
2. Have totally fired receptors

Except for the small handful of genetically cursed, I can't imagine that Test doesn't make you gain weight, save my two possibilites...it's just scientifically nearly impossible. And you say you were bulking at this time?

 

[jokefellah]

My last cycle was 1200mg a week of test cyp, 900mg a week of deca and 40mg a day of dbol for the first 4 weeks.
The results?
My bench went from 275 for 2 reps to 275 for 6 reps. Very big disappointment.

Sorry but your dosages are just mad for me. All my fiends never use more AAS than 750mg weekly with great results. I think your gears are very underdosed.. come to Europe and shot our gear and you will be kicked with that doses that you are using

 

[FrTimothy]

Diet is EVERYTHING.
I started on a simple cycle of tren and test cyp. couldn't understand why I wasn't making gains. My diet was "better" than it was...but not great.
Second cycle, FANTASTIC GAINS...diet is perfect, training is so-so, test cyp and tren again. Much better on tren/test than diet alone...but diet is at least 70%....you gotta provide the fuel or else you can't produce the gains.

 

[lifted]

Okay, lemme further explain. My diet is top notch. I'm eating 6000+ calories. In fact, due to this happening, justy recently, my diet is the best it's ever been for awhile now. Not that it wasn't great before, but you know what I mean...the little things that you can tweak, etc...

And since I cannot even maintane my weight at that caloric intake, somethings gotta be wrong. And low test is what I'm thinking it is. You see, (as posted earlier) when I first stareted the cycle, I was gaining, but as soon as I got shutdown, that's when things started to take a turn for the worst. And the gains even when I first started were nothing dramatic, but they were gains nonetheless....

I get anywhere from 7.5 t0 10 hours of sleep every night. And my training except for the failed 5x5 routine that I tried for a few weeks is now the same as it was pre-cycle, so those are definaltely not the culprit.

If you fellas wanna see my diet then I'll post it, but i've posted it before so it's no secret.

So what I'm thinking, is that synthetic test is somehow different from natty test and that is what makes the difference here when thinking that eventhough I'm shutdown, the synthetic test should be making up for it.....but for some reason it just isn't.

I haven't tried stacking other compounds yet, but if 700mg/week is making me lose weight, then I don't have much faith in doing another cycle and possibly wasting more cash....

I have used dbol before for like two weeks, I didn't like it so I held off and just continued on with the test. Now this was my first cycle and my natty T levels weren't shut down yet like this current one. Gains were apparent, but only water weight....not even any considerable strenght gains....say maybe a rep or two...

 

[bobthebuilder]

Jergo, synthetic test is EXACTLY the same as natty test, there is absolutely no chemical difference. If the gear you are on is real, and you are losing weight on 700mg of test per week then there is definitely something wrong, go see a doctor and ask why you are losing weight, that would be your best bet on getting an answer as to why you are losing weight.

 

[DragonRider]

Now I didn't do well on test only ether ( I only really like it with EQ), I don't even need it for fina, fina works better then test for me regarding libido. But I still would not lose wieght on 700mg of test a week. My natural test was 256 (Blood test). Any test I take over that is likely to help gain or keep wieght.

I'm not doubting your stories here but I can't acept the conclusion as it is. Something else is wrong here, I can see one type of roid not working for some, but you can't be immune to all types.

I don't necessarily agree with the mechanism Jergo describes. I'm only in agreement that some people seem to be non responders to AAS.
I too have very low test levels and have been prescribed HRT.
I'm 46 and have been working out and studying diet for 28 years. I was the epitomy of a hard gainer for most of those 28 years.
As a matter of fact, no one knew I worked out until I discovered AAS. I'm 6' tall and weigh 240, but my bench is an embarassing 275 for 6 after 28 years and that is with steroid assistance.

By the way I make all of my gear myself from oriental sources. Anyone who makes their own knows who my source is and the reliability of their products.

 

[dirlewanger]

this must be a joke, i started taking steroids as a freshman in college football and with a piss poor cycle of 200mg/week for the first three weeks, 300mg/week for 2 weeks and 200mg for another two weeks, i gained 20lbs which i kept, my bench went from 350 to 405, my max squat went from 500 for 3 reps to 550 for 3 reps, my clean went from 275 for 1 rep to 325 for 1 rep and my 40 time went from 5.0 to 4.98. My diet consisted of massive calories which came from poor quality cafeteria food. I think your **** was fake bro, because you should make phenominal gains off of your first cycle of mediocre ****, i mean my cycle was off of low doses of tornel testosterone enanthate.

 

[bigpetefox]

My first two cycles I ate really clean, almost like I was cutting, and still gained a good amount of weight.. On the drol right now I'm back to 200lbs, and 500mg test cyp/600mg eq weekly should kick in soon..

It is strange that even with "perfect" diet/training/rest noone's growing, I'm just glad it ain't me..

 

[morfiend]

what lab is your test from?

 

[DragonRider]

this must be a joke, i started taking steroids as a freshman in college football and with a piss poor cycle of 200mg/week for the first three weeks, 300mg/week for 2 weeks and 200mg for another two weeks, i gained 20lbs which i kept, my bench went from 350 to 405, my max squat went from 500 for 3 reps to 550 for 3 reps, my clean went from 275 for 1 rep to 325 for 1 rep and my 40 time went from 5.0 to 4.98. My diet consisted of massive calories which came from poor quality cafeteria food. I think your **** was fake bro, because you should make phenominal gains off of your first cycle of mediocre ****, i mean my cycle was off of low doses of tornel testosterone enanthate.

Not a joke at all and you've completely missed the point because of your genetics. The weights you were lifting prior to your first cycle make you a text book example of superior genetics. It's VERY common for someone with your genetic gift to make those type of gains from a first cycle. The problem is, it is so easy for people with your genetics that you assume that others who don't make the same gains have done something wrong.
The same can be said for BigPete. Anyone who has seen pictures of BP before he ever started his first cycle will see he is very genetically gifted. Most people take steroids to look like BP did BEFORE he started cycling.

Also, keep in mind the original post. We are talking specifically about people who do not get phenominaL gains from test. There may be a steroid we get the same gains as other users. We just haven't discovered it yet.
On the other hand, some people may not be genetically sensitive to high dose AAS in the same way that a diabetic loses sensitivity to his own insulin.
The one thing for sure is, we will never figure this out if people keep accusing non responders of doing something wrong. What did diabetics do to become insulin dependent? I'm not diabetic. Should I assume that diabetics have all caused their own illness?

 

[DragonRider]

what lab is your test from?

If you were asking me (I'm not sure), the question was answered at post #44.

 

[bigpetefox]

Not a joke at all and you've completely missed the point because of your genetics. The weights you were lifting prior to your first cycle make you a text book example of superior genetics. It's VERY common for someone with your genetic gift to make those type of gains from a first cycle. The problem is, it is so easy for people with your genetics that you assume that others who don't make the same gains have done something wrong.
The same can be said for BigPete. Anyone who has seen pictures of BP before he ever started his first cycle will see he is very genetically gifted. Most people take steroids to look like BP did BEFORE he started cycling.

Thanks brother.. People tend to overlook the fact that I've mentioned quite often I've trained for 13 years natty before my first poke..