Prolactin gyno, need help
05-06-2010 05:46 PM
Prolactin gyno, need help
So I developed a mildly bad case of of prolactin gyno during a superdrol cycle with nolva PCT this past winter. The condition remained all winter long, and nipples stayed sensative.
The past couple weeks I ran a Havoc cycle due to its effect on decreasing gyno (probably more likely estrogen). Durng the cycle the sensativity and lactation has gone away but I still have a lump under the left nip.
Now i'm about to start PCT of nolva, but was wondering if this was a bad idea. Should I go with clomid instead, and maybe run something with it(caber)?
Any knowledgeable opinions are appreciated!
05-06-2010 10:02 PM
As far as I'm aware, SD isn't a progesterone so there should be no prolactin gyno. Also, havoc decreases your estrogen so it would have no effect on prolactin gyno. As far as nolva is concerned, you'll never get a straight answer on it. From my own use, however, toremifene beats the **** out of nolva. I never touched clomid because of its side effects and because I believe toremifene is better.
05-06-2010 10:39 PM
Nolva and Aromasin or clomid and aromasin. you could take caber if you think its prolactin related but Superdrol cant induce Prolactin sides unless you had naturally extremely high Prolactin levels and that combined with some sort of Estrogen rebound Post PCT because Superdrol doesnt aromatize either so it would lower estrogen on cycle and if you didnt taper of ur serm long enough you could have had your estrogen rebound
05-07-2010 12:31 AM
At what point did the lactation/lump develop in relation to the SD cycle? During or after?
05-07-2010 05:05 AM
not necessarily... the way our hormones interact are far more complicated than that.
Originally Posted by sanchezgreg18
the best theories put forth about superdrol rebound gyno mention that it has to do with superdrol up-regulating one of the progesterone receptors i believe.
that being said prolactin and progesterone are not one in the same... both can cause symptoms of gynecomastia by independent mechanisms, progesterone causes up-regulation of estrogen receptors causing and increased sensitivity to the effects of estrogen, which is why drugs like nandrolone and trenbolone cause estrogenic side-effects despite not aromatizing to great degrees (nandrolone aromatizes at 1/3rd the rate of test, trenbolone does not appreciably aromatize)
with superdrol the progesterone receptor is up-regulated (sensitized) during cycle, therefore causing a cascading effect that results in an increased sensitivity to estrogen, superdrol itself acts as an anti-estrogen while you're on it as do all non-aromatizing steroids so when you d/c it your estrogen levels rise and have a powerful effect on a body that is now sensitized to their effects.
bam. you and my gyno... this is also why i think it's hard to recover from a superdrol cycle despite it being much less androgenic, and not estrogenic at all.
i had luck with aromasin and letro for mine, anti-e's will work for all types of gyno, as will androgens, proviron + aromasin worked the best if you can get a hold of some proviron, it is almost a pure androgen with little anabolic activity, but is weak enough that it won't cause too much shutdown (you could theoretically take it year round, with only a minor decrease in total test and an increase in free test)
nolva can also upregulate progesterone receptors if i remember correctly, it is contra-indicated for cycles including progestins like nandrolone, trenbolone, etc.
05-07-2010 12:55 PM
I got it during the fourth week of the SD cycle. I had lactation from both nipples but only a lump under one... either way it causes me to believe it was prolactin induced.
05-07-2010 01:55 PM
I've heard vitex and B6 are good as preventitive measures but i figure running them no couldn't hurt. Does anyone know a good dose to run vitex at?
05-07-2010 02:06 PM
It very well may have been, but I really don't think it matters, breast tissue differentiation will not occur without a sufficient quantity of estrogen and an insufficient quantity of androgens.
Originally Posted by athlete18
So reducing one and increasing the other works regardless.
05-08-2010 06:20 AM
You should prolong the PCT until the "gyno" clears. Think about higher dosage.
05-08-2010 01:59 PM
Pramipexole. Research it.
05-08-2010 02:30 PM
You have proof that superdrol upregulates the progestin receptors. Youre the first person to ever say that. besides that you restated points I already made
Originally Posted by onzero
05-08-2010 03:17 PM
I'd also be interested in some evidence that SD upregulates progesterone receptors.
This is the first time I've heard of lactating gyno that occurred during an SD cycle. Most gyno I've seen is related to SD is rebound due to inadequate PCT protocols.
05-08-2010 04:14 PM
He's been off cycle for a great amount of time now. His problems are occuring due to the fact that his estrogen is still higher than his test levels. It is the classic properties of rebound gyno. He needs some prami and nolva and it will junk puch the gyno in a couple weeks.
05-08-2010 08:16 PM
Yes, although be very careful with Prami, definitely research it before you start taking it and bumping up the dosages really quick (as some have and blacked out as a result).
Originally Posted by TravisG
05-09-2010 04:47 PM
LOW dose to start. its hardcore stuff. but good.
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