Less Estrogen = More Fat Loss?

[Sub7]

Does lowering your estrogen (either during a cut without steroids, or a cutting cycle with AAS, PH or PS) lead to greater fat loss?
I am not talking about hardening of the muscles, or water loss, but losing more actual fat tissue by lowering estrogen levels.

Thanks

 

[gymrat827]

I dont think so. Lowering your EST is going to boost your test by your test to est ratio. So you will get somewhat of a test boost fat buring effect. But I dont think lowering est is going to directly help burning more fat.

 

[Sub7]

I see...

bump for more opinions please

 

[GnastyMcNasty]

bump

 

[slacker86]

im assuiming u mean by lowering estrogen u mean like a letro type thing? Some people do it pre-contest like a letro/clen thing, getting rid of the estrogen helps get the water out, aids in dehydration, dont think it would impact loss of body fat very well tho.

 

[TravisG]

Gymrat has it about as right as it will get. Simple answer. Lower estrogen means higher test and lower water retention which will lead to more fat loss. The test to estro ratio is why us men can burn fat off quicker than women.

 

[slacker86]

Gymrat has it about as right as it will get. Simple answer. Lower estrogen means higher test and lower water retention which will lead to more fat loss. The test to estro ratio is why us men can burn fat off quicker than women.

im pretty sure ur natty test will drop too once estrogen is decreased, much like estrogen increases when u inject test and the levels skyrocket. So for a while its a better ratio but when u stop wont there be some rebound? i would assume there would be.

 

[BigBlackGuy]

im pretty sure ur natty test will drop too once estrogen is decreased, much like estrogen increases when u inject test and the levels skyrocket. So for a while its a better ratio but when u stop wont there be some rebound? i would assume there would be.

Edit: I'm editting this to clarify. By high test and estrogen levels, I mean naturally. As in, those with the highest testosterone production will simply have the highest estrogen production. This is not counting the use of an AI.
High estrogen generally means high testosterone levels. This is because the body is seeking homeostasis. That is why you want high estrogen levels (although people take SERMs to stop them from interacting with certain receptors) during PCT.

Now, if you increase aromatase (such as when one consumes alcohol) then you decrease testosterone because it is being converted to estrogen.

Estrogen does make it difficult to lose fat; estrogen binds with a receptor on the surface of fat cells ("adrenergic receptor subtype alpha 2A") which promotes the growth and division of the cell -- especially (unfortunately for us) the type of adipocytes usually found in the butt and thighs.

 

[slacker86]

High estrogen generally means high testosterone levels. This is because the body is seeking homeostasis. That is why you want high estrogen levels (although people take SERMs to stop them from interacting with certain receptors) during PCT.

Now, if you increase aromatase (such as when one consumes alcohol) then you decrease testosterone because it is being converted to estrogen.

Estrogen does make it difficult to lose fat; estrogen binds with a receptor on the surface of fat cells ("adrenergic receptor subtype alpha 2A") which promotes the growth and division of the cell -- especially (unfortunately for us) the type of adipocytes usually found in the butt and thighs.

But what i am getting at is if you are currently at homeostasis then you take something to lower estrogen, wont your testosterone levels drop as well to try and maintaince homestasis thus defeating the purpose of lowering estrogen in the first place?

 

[slacker86]

regardless having excessively low estrogen can cause a whole bunch of problems on its own, it can effect ur libido, it can make ur immune system weaker, low estrogen in men is a potential sign of heart problems. Not to mention every time i have taken an AI to control excessive bloat or estro related sides i found it to be actually harder to put on more lean muscle mass. So all in all i think its not that great of an idea.
If you want to lose excess weight you can use clen,t3,and hgh helps a lot with losing excess body fat, the clen and letro ur gonna wanna run at least a little bit of somethin anabolic to keep it from eating ur muscles up, probably a good 250mg a week of test or soemthing like that.

Then again there is always diet and hard work, those always work and have basicly no negative sides.

 

[TravisG]

They are both on a "pulley" system so to say..One cant move naturally without the other one moving so i'd say you are correct slacker.

 

[Sub7]

I am totally confused here. I thought that the male body adjusts the amount of testosterone in the blood by measuring primarily estrogen/estradiol levels. When the level of estrogen is high, it basically shuts down testosterone production because more test would mean more aromatization = more estrogen (the male body hates estrogen). When you use an AI and reduce aromatization, you reduce estrogen levels, obviously and then the body actually makes more testosterone.

Am I wrong here?

 

[GnastyMcNasty]

But what i am getting at is if you are currently at homeostasis then you take something to lower estrogen, wont your testosterone levels drop as well to try and maintaince homestasis thus defeating the purpose of lowering estrogen in the first place?

This is incorrect. By lowering estrogen, you signal your HPTA to make more testosterone in order to be converted to estrogen by aromatase. This is why taking an AI like arimidex will spike natural testosterone levels up to 60% after one dose (1 mg)

 

[Libertarian]

This is incorrect. By lowering estrogen, you signal your HPTA to make more testosterone in order to be converted to estrogen by aromatase. This is why taking an AI like arimidex will spike natural testosterone levels up to 60% after one dose (1 mg)

Do you have any research that shows this happens? I remember reading a paper on Letrozole raising testosterone levels in this way, but the study only included men who were very obese and thus, had higher-than-normal estrogen levels making it a special-case scenario. I would like to see if there has been a study on normal, healthy men.

 

[GnastyMcNasty]

It's under the profile for arimidex on steroid.com

 

[Sub7]

I thought what GnastyMcNasty explained is the universally accepted, basic mechanism of hormonal action in the male body... basic textbook stuff -or so I thought....

 

[BigBlackGuy]

Letrozole is an aromatase inhibitor, so by taking it you are not lowering estrogen directly, but instead lowering the enzyme which converts testosterone into estrogen. This clearly means that you will have more testosterone in your body because you are directly stopping it from being converted into something else. But lowering estrogen too much is not a good thing for testosterone levels, muscle building or many other things such as heart and bone health.

 

[Libertarian]

It's under the profile for arimidex on steroid.com

Ah, interesting study. It does show that a decrease in estrogen results in a reciprocal increase in Testosterone.

However, I did find this bit interesting:

The fact that we did not observe any detectable change in whole body protein kinetics or body composition despite the reciprocal increase in testosterone concentrations observed with anastrozole is also interesting. It is possible that this degree of increase in circulating androgens is not enough to see a change in protein kinetics and body composition with the metabolic tools of study used here... Alternatively, the data could be interpreted to indicate that estrogen is necessary for the full anabolic effect of testosterone to be observed in the male. This requires further study.

Also the study found no significant change in fat mass.

Rates of protein synthesis and degradation, as measured by leucine tracer studies, and rates of carbohydrate, protein, and lipid oxidation did not change significantly during treatment. Body composition (weight, fat-free mass, percent fat mass) and skeletal muscle strength were not affected by the suppression of E2 concentrations.

 

[jiggero]

Ah, interesting study. It does show that a decrease in estrogen results in a reciprocal increase in Testosterone.

However, I did find this bit interesting:
Also the study found no significant change in fat mass.

Your such a Friggen Know It All.