Clomid & Nolvadex PCT

candle25

candle25

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I have been thinking about using both clomid & nolvadex during my next PCT. The reason being that nolvadex blocks estrogen reception but doesn't stop the production of it. I am running dbol & Test E which both have a high aromatization rate. This would allow an estrogen build up that would be taken up after the ceasation of the nolva. Clomid on the other hand is more of a HPTA kickstarter. I'm thinking that if I run both I'll need to half the normal dosages of each. Has anyone ran both PCT? If so at what dosages?
 
Dwight Schrute

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1. Nolva has more direct stimulation of the HTPA than Clomid does. It is superior in every way.

2. Even if you have a high amount of aromatizition you still are being protected by Nolva and once you come off your test levels will drop as well as your estrogen until restoration of your HTPA occurs.
 
candle25

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I agree. I just read half of "Chemical Muscle Enhancement" and it mentions in the Nolva Profile that the estragen that is being blocked will build up. It recommends taking proviron to help with this. That in turn raises another issue (that I'm not interested in at the moment) because proviron is mildly androgenic and seems like it shouldn't be used during PCT. So what I'm concerned with is where does the estragen go?
 
candle25

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OK, I see what you are saying Bobo. Post cycle there is not an elevated level of estrogen for anti-estrogens to block, as testosterone (now suppressed) is a major substrate used for the synthesis of estrogens in men. Serum estrogen levels will actually be lower here as a result, not higher.
 

zarraza

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thought i'd throw this in here - i just read this and was considering it as opposed to nolva, maybe this will help others?

Proviron is a synthetic, orally effective androgen which does not have any anabolic characteristics. You should be aware that Proviron is also an estrogen antagonist which prevents the aromatization of steroids. Unlike the antiestrogen Nolvadex which only blocks the estrogen receptors Proviron already prevents the aromatizing of steroids. Therefore gynecomastia and increased water retention are successfully blocked. Since Proviron strongly suppresses the forming of estrogens no re-bound effect occurs after discontinuation of use of the compound as is the case with, for example, Nolvadex where an aromatization of the steroids is not prevented. One can say that Proviron cures the problem of aromatization at its root while Nolvadex simply cures the symptoms. For this reason male athletes should prefer Proviron to Nolvadex. With Proviron the athlete obtains more muscle hardness since the androgen level is increased and the estrogen concentration remains low. This, in particular, is noted positively during the preparation for a competition when used in combination with a diet. Female athletes who naturally have a higher estrogen level often supplement their steroid intake with Proviron resulting in increased muscle hardness. In the past it was common for bodybuilders to take a daily dose of one 25 mg tablet over several weeks, sometimes even months, in order to appear hard all year round. This was especially important for athletes' appearances at guest performances, seminars and photo sessions. Today Clenbuterol is usually taken over the entire year since possible virilization symptoms cannot occur which is not yet the case with Proviron. Since Proviron is very effective male athletes usually need only 50-mg/ day which means that the athlete usually takes one 25 mg tablet in the morning and another 25 mg tablet in the evening. In some cases one 25 mg tablet per day is sufficient. When combining Proviron with Nolvadex (50 mg Proviron/day and 20 mg Nolvadex/day) this will lead to an almost complete suppression of estrogen.

The side effects of Proviron in men are low at a dosage of 2 tablets/day so that Proviron, taken for example in combination with a steroid cycle, can be used comparatively without risk over several weeks. Since Proviron is well-tolerated by the liver, liver dysfunctions do not occur in the given dosages. For athletes who are used to acting under the motto "more is better" the intake of Proviron could have a paradoxical effect. The most common side effect of Proviron is a distinct sexual overstimulation and in some cases continuous penis erection. Since this condition can be painful and lead to possible damages, a lower dosage or discontinuing the compound are the only sensible solutions. Female athletes should use Proviron with caution since possible androgenic side effects cannot be excluded. Women who want to give Proviron a try should not take more than one 25 mg tablet per day. Higher dosages and periods of intake of more than four weeks considerably increase the risk of virilization symptoms. Female athletes who have no difficulties with Proviron obtain good results with 25 mg Proviron/ day and 20 mg Nolvadex/day and, in combination with a diet, report an accelerated fat breakdown and continuously harder muscles.
 
sikdogg

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Proviron is suppressive so it shouldn't be used during PCT.
 

myofreak

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I have been using Nolva through out my cycle and will be using clomid for PCT.My reasoning behind this is just in case my body is too accustomed to the Nolva being there or becoming tolerant to its effects.That is why i am using Clomid.Over time I am also noticing Nolva losing some of its effects on me ie 20mg used to be effective now i need 30mg.
 

db682

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I have been using Nolva through out my cycle and will be using clomid for PCT.My reasoning behind this is just in case my body is too accustomed to the Nolva being there or becoming tolerant to its effects.That is why i am using Clomid.Over time I am also noticing Nolva losing some of its effects on me ie 20mg used to be effective now i need 30mg.
I highly doubt that you are building a tolerance to Tamoxifen bro. It is generally prescribed to treat breast cancer for a duration of 5yrs and the dosage during those 5 yrs typically remains the same. 20-40 mgs per day.
See my post in the following link and read the attachment. Plenty of information and answers just about every question. But it is referring to the treatment of cancer. Not the prevention of gyno or as a post cycle ancillary.

follow me

db
 

myofreak

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Thanks for the article.I have seen an article pertaining to breast cancer patients actually not responding to Nolva.I know that is not the same as PCT but I wonder if it might have any implications on us guys,SOme might respond better to clomid than with Nolva.Just a thought.It is gonna be my first time with clomid we'll see.I have been doin a cycle of 50-100mg proviron,750mg-1000mg sustanon.this is gonna be a 10week cycle which means i will begin post cycle on week 13.
 

chemicaldreamer

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I have seen an article pertaining to breast cancer patients actually not responding to Nolva
This is breast cancer you're talking about... there are no cancer treatments that is 100% effective, especially and including Nolva.
 

n2bnbig

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run it like this with every cycle

nolva 10mg ed day 1 - begining of pct
nolva 20mg ed throughout pct
l-dex .25mg ed day 1 - end of pct
clomid 100mg ed 3-4 weeks for pct

jmo
 

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