Oxymetholone question.

[Skye]

I have heard lots of things about this stuff and have decided to try it. However I have heard that if you stack it with aromatizing gear the side will be worse then if you stack it with non- aromatizing gear. I can easily run this stuff ether way so what is the truth of the matter?

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Anadrol doesn't aromatize much at all but acts directly on the ER (in theory) which causes the bloat associated with this. If you add another aromatizing steroid in there you defintly will get an increase in side effects.

 

[Skye]

Ok, how about this (if I can pick your brain here)

100mg Oxymetholone ed weeks 1 to 6
75mg tren ed weeks 1 to 6 (I can run this without test, fina does not shut me down even when taken with Deca)
EQ 600mg week ( I am already crusing with it, been 10weeks) weeks 1 to 4
Proviron 50mg ed + 10mg nolvadex ed (my choice anti e and safety net in case I do get shutdown)
HCG 300iu 2X week weeks 1 to 7

Start PCT is Proviron 50mg ed for 3 weeks with nolvadex 40mg ed for 2 weeks and 20mg ed for another 2

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Fina does shut you down. Just because your testes don't shrink doesn't mean your test levels are not bottomed out. I guarantee you 100% that you are shut down completely.

Proviron for PCT makes no sense. Stop listening to those idiots at Elite or AF.

 

[size]

As Bobo stated, no proviron for PCT.

What is your goal from the cycle? It seems like a strange combo to me. Are you going for strength?

 

[Skye]

Let me rephrase here. I have never gotten fina dick from fina or deca. Even fina only tended to increase my libido quite a bit. No one has ever given me a good reason why, but I am not the only one this happens to. What I should have posted was that I am not worried about going limp.

Proviron was added to my PCT because several people keep swearing by it; as they believe it helps in the recovery (no one said how it does). I already use it for an anti e so I didn’t think adding it was a problem. (I don’t go to either of those sites). I am guessing that you guys consider it too suppressive to be used PCT or that it is just no benefit to doing so?

As for the cycle idea it came from one of the best cycles I have done, fina/Dbol/EQ. (I latter added prop to this and it kicks ass) Prop/EQ/dbol is working good for me now. Sense I am only going to run one more cycle this year with an oral in it I figured I replace the Dbol with Drol.

My goals are simple here. Up until now I have been more concerned with strength and mobility but I have kinda gotten the size bug as of late. (Ok, Ok, some of the girls have been noticing, sue me ) Also I have a bad back and a couple of joints to worry about ( I was thinking about deca again but the drol should do pretty much the same thing)

Remember guys that the only thing I planning for sure right now is to try the drol.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

There are many reasons not to use it for PCT. I posted this in another thread pertaining to the smae type of sitaution.



(1) Acta Endocrinol (Copenh) 1974 Oct;77(2):380-6

The effect of mesterolone administration to normal men on the pituitary-testicular function.

Aakvaag A, Stromme SB.


"The reduction in total plasma testosterone and the unchanged free testosterone is probably due to reduced testosterone binding to SHBG."

So even though mesterolone competes with test for SHBG binding, the diplaced test is cleared from the system faster, resulting in no net change of free test, since as the authors point out:

"the MCR [metabolic clearance rate] is inversely related to the degree of protein binding."


Winstrol does the same thing. When 10mg/day was administered to normal men for 14 days, total testosterone, shbg and free test were all essentially cut in half. (1) Total test went from 22 to 10 nmol/L; SHBG from 21 to 10 nmol/L; and free test from 398 to 231 pmol/L. So again, even though total test and SHBG are dropping, so is free test.

That is kind of the point of having bound and loosely bound test. Up to a point anyway. An excess of SHBG can be bad. Free test is just metabolized too quickly, with the rate of metabolization increasing in proportion to the concentration of free test.

SHBG is interesting in itself. It appears to be much more than just a passive transporter for sex steroids in the blood. It has been shown for instance to both block the proliferative action of estrogen in mammary tissue in vitro, and prevent the normal upregulation of the progesterone receptor caused by estradiol (2). There evidently just hasn't been enough research done to know if there is any clinical significance to these actions


(1) Clin Endocrinol (Oxf) 1984 Jul;21(1):49-55

Alteration of hormone levels in normal males given the anabolic steroid stanozolol.

Small M, Beastall GH, Semple CG, Cowan RA, Forbes CD.

(2) Mol Cell Endocrinol 2001 Feb 14;172(1-2):31-6

The control of progesterone receptor expression in MCF-7 breast cancer cells: effects of estradiol and sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG).

Fazzari A, Catalano MG, Comba A, Becchis M, Raineri M, Frairia R, Fortunati N.


Thank Nandi for that.

 

[canadian champ]

Proviron was added to my PCT because several people keep swearing by it; as they believe it helps in the recovery (no one said how it does). .

this should immediately make you reconsider.
cc

 

[Skye]

Just the fact that Bobo didn't like it made me reconsider. What made me consider in the first place was that I have seen studies showing that proviron was suppressive, and studies that say it wasn't. If the proviron is counter productive for PCT ware did this biz about using it for come from? If I read the study right it is not addressing the issue of being suppressive or not, rather that it will counteract the SERM treatment part of the PCT (I didn't know that). That being the case ware is (and some of the people I talked to are suppose to know there ****) stuff coming from?

 

[size]

I think some people belive proviron is good in PCT as they think it will help in the libido department and give them a harder appearance without causing any negative impacts. This is just wrong.

Good choice on dropping i, but if you already have it, use it during cycle.